Heather
Oct 18 2004, 09:44 AM
Journal articlePolice hope to catch whoever tied the animal to a train track in Martinsburg.
By Edward Marshall
Journal Staff Writer
MARTINSBURG - Authorities are requesting the public's help in an investigation into the brutal killing of a dog that was intentionally tied to railroad tracks Tuesday in Martinsburg.
Berkeley County Animal Control Officer Brad Sheppard said the animal was tied to the tracks off East John Street so it would be decapitated by a train. He also said those responsible may have waited around to watch the grisly aftermath.
"This was not a case of a dog simply being loose," Sheppard said.
The unknown suspect or suspects used "a very short nylon lead to tie the dog down to the rail," Sheppard said.
Investigators found that the lead was actually tied in a knot on the rail itself.
"My assumption is that it was probably some teenagers," Sheppard said.
He said that they likely climbed a nearby hill after restraining the dog so they could watch.
Sheppard said that the dog's body was found Friday with part of its lower jaw and tongue severed. The animal didn't die instantly but instead bled to death in what was likely an agonizing and slow ordeal, Sheppard said.
The dog was described as a cream-colored German shepherd-sized dog.
The dog was killed between about 9 and 10 p.m. Tuesday. Because of the darkness, the train's conductor was unable to see the dog and stop before the train hit the animal. After the dog was hit, the Martinsburg City Police Department was contacted. Officers then contacted animal control officers, but they were unable to find the animal's body.
On Friday, a citizen found the dog near the tracks off East John Street behind the Adam Stephen House in Martinsburg. The same set of tracks also are accessible from South High Street.
Sheppard said the dog didn't appear to be a stray. The dog was neutered, fairly clean and likely someone's pet.
If the perpetrators are caught, authorities will file animal cruelty charges.
"It's a horrible way for an animal, for someone's pet, to die," Sheppard said.
Anyone who may have seen someone leading a dog in the area Tuesday or who has any information about this case is urged to contact Berkeley County Animal Control at 263-4729 or local police agencies.
Information can also be phoned in to the Berkeley County Crime Solvers anonymous tip line at 267-4999.
_____________________________

This makes me physically ill. It also makes me feel violent. I just want to pass the story on in case someone might know something or have a tidbit of info to help out in the investigation. I heard that there is a growing cash reward for any info.
Naomi
Oct 18 2004, 11:04 AM

OMG, that is awful! I just wanted to cry when I read it, now I want to go out and tie whoever did it to the railroad tracks!
WVDragonlady
Oct 18 2004, 11:43 AM
I think that when the *astards ARE caught that they'd be publicly whipped!Tied to a pole and beaten.I volunteer! These(?) are sick individuals.Torturing animals is one the main symptoms of serial killers.If they're not caught they'll move on to bigger and "better" victims and methods.
Romulus
Oct 18 2004, 01:46 PM
Absolutely ghoulish!!!
Those perps who committed this act of cruelty should have the book thrown at them when and if they are caught. Poor dog.
Snoopy
Oct 18 2004, 03:26 PM
QUOTE (WVDragonlady @ Oct 18 2004, 12:43 PM)
I think that when the *astards ARE caught that they'd be publicly whipped!Tied to a pole and beaten.I volunteer! These(?) are sick individuals.Torturing animals is one the main symptoms of serial killers.If they're not caught they'll move on to bigger and "better" victims and methods.

Agreed. I hope the sick SOB's are caught and put in a cell with an animal lover with a bad attitude. Keep us posted, Heather!
BMIC
Oct 18 2004, 04:10 PM
I think I'm gonna barf!
Disgusting!
WVU-Mountaineers
Oct 18 2004, 06:37 PM
That's horrible, but what's worse is that the police probably won't catch whoever did it.
BMIC
Oct 19 2004, 06:01 AM
They've arrested and charged the owner's husband. FELONY animal cruelty. Now I hope they throw the book at him!
Or throw him at the book . . . preferably from a height of several stories!
Heather
Oct 19 2004, 07:23 AM
Tuesday October 19, 2004
Martinsburg man arrested after dog tied to train track
by CANDICE BOSELY
<a href="mailto:martinsburg@herald-mail.com">martinsburg@herald-mail.com</a>
MARTINSBURG, W.Va. - An arrest warrant was issued Monday charging a Martinsburg man with a felony count of animal cruelty following the death of a dog tied to a set of railroad tracks.
Richard Faircloth, 30, of 115 Swartz St., Martinsburg, was taken into police custody without incident Monday evening, said Cpl. R.L. Gardner of the Berkeley County Sheriff's Department.
Gardner said the dog belonged to Faircloth and his wife.
Berkeley County Animal Control Officers Jason Ahalt and Clark McDaniel started the initial investigation after a train conductor told a police officer that he hit and killed a dog tied to the railroad tracks last Tuesday night.
The conductor was not able to provide an exact location and officers did not find the dog that night, after searching for half an hour or longer, Ahalt said.
The dog was found the next morning on a set of tracks behind the Adam Stephen House in Martinsburg, off John Street, Ahalt said.
The dog had been tied to the tracks with a short blue leash in an apparent attempt to decapitate it, Ahalt said. Instead, the dog was able to wiggle its head a little, causing its lower jaw and tongue to be cut off, Ahalt said.
"I'd say this is the most horrible thing I've seen," said Ahalt, who has been an animal control officer since 1998. "This is the most gruesome and the most coldhearted (case)."
Animal Control Officer Larry Light said the dog did not die instantly.
"It suffered. It bled to death," Light said.
As the officers talked in their office, the dog's owner, Amy Faircloth, asked if she could have Kujo's body to bury. The officers said the dog is frozen and needs to be kept awhile longer.
Amy Faircloth, 23, said her husband bought the dog for her as a gift for her protection. Kujo, a shepherd/pit bull mix, would have turned 3 years old in December, she said.
"He was very loyal, the smartest dog I've ever seen. I did all of his obedience training myself. I was really, really attached to him," said Faircloth, who formerly worked at a no-kill animal shelter in Charles Town, W.Va.
Gardner said the warrant was for a felony charge of animal cruelty rather than a misdemeanor because there was intentional malice, an element that separates the two charges.
Gardner said the arrest was possible because of the work of Animal Control officers and Berkeley County Sheriff Randy Smith, who took a Crime Solvers tip about the case and immediately assigned Gardner to look into it.
Conviction on a felony charge of animal cruelty carries a sentence of one to three years in prison, Gardner said.
Copyright The Herald-Mail ONLINE
_________________________________
I was worried they wouldn't find who did it too, WVU-M. I'm so glad they did.
Naomi
Oct 19 2004, 08:03 AM

What a jerk! I've learned in a few of my classes that when going on domestic violence cases, look at the condition the pets are in too. All too often the pets are victims too.
If I were that woman I would be divorcing him in a second...and trying real hard not to murder him!
samy0
Oct 19 2004, 09:20 AM
I say get about 5 or 6 Pit bulls that haven't eaten in a couple days throw them in a pen then throw this guy in with them and have steaks taped to his body. If he can last 30 mins. he is free to go otherwise scrape his pathetic butt up and bury him
Naomi
Oct 19 2004, 10:30 AM
YES! That's a great idea samy0!!! But if he makes it the 30 minutes he goes to prison...no freedom allowed again for this guy.
WVDragonlady
Oct 19 2004, 12:31 PM
I've transported Mrs.Faircloth in the past. I don't recall ever seeing the dog.He must've been out back which you can't see the rear of the houses from Swartz.They're all row houses and it didn't look as tho the "owners" took too much pride in their properties.Fairly run-down.Too bad about the puppy. I think that if my hubby did something like that to my "pups" I'd have to lay my hands on him first and THEN turn his sorry *ss in!
Snoopy
Oct 19 2004, 12:57 PM
I thought I heard this couple had small kids

and that the guy said he did it because the dog snapped at the kids. (Can anyone verify this?) Like that's a good reason to do what he did.

I worry about the kids and the wife -- but at least she's old enough to take care of herself -- maybe not smart enough, but old enough. I hope social services takes a real close look here.
feistyirishbabe
Oct 19 2004, 10:45 PM
Omg!
So incredibly disgusting & sad!!
Makes ya wonder what on earth is going through that wacko's head when he did that!!
It makes it so much worse that the dog's death wasn't immediate, to have to lay there bleeding to death
Heather
Oct 20 2004, 07:32 AM
MARTINSBURG, W.VA. - The brutal killing of a dog tied to a set of railroad tracks last week will not have happened in vain if legislators pass two related bills in the upcoming session, local legislators and candidates said during a press conference Tuesday afternoon.
One of the bills would make it a crime to torture or kill an animal as a means of intimidating a spouse or another person, said John Yoder, a former state senator from Jefferson County who is seeking the 16th District Senate seat again.
Cpl. Ron Gardner, with the Berkeley County Sheriff's Department, said he conducted a videotaped interview with the man charged with killing Kujo. Richard Faircloth, 30, of 115 Swartz St., Martinsburg, said in the interview that he killed the dog because it growled at his children.
However, when Gardner interviewed Faircloth's wife, Amy Faircloth, she said her husband likely killed the dog because the couple had been fighting, Gardner said Monday night.
"This was an example of domestic terrorism," Trish Reid, with the Shenandoah Women's Center, said during the press conference.
Around 25 people, plus three leashed dogs, attended the press conference, held in front of the Martinsburg-Berkeley County Public Library.
"We're trying to make sure they're in a safe world," Del. John Overington, R-Berkeley, said after mentioning the dogs people had brought with them. One of the dogs was found on the side of the road and had been shot, its owner said.
Overington said he helped pass a bill last year that made intentionally torturing or maliciously killing a dog a felony. Until then, the only penalty for animal cruelty was a misdemeanor - or "a slap on the wrist," Berkeley County Animal Control Officer Erin Webber said.
The man charged with killing Kujo was charged under the felony statute and the case might be one of the first in West Virginia using the statute, Overington said.
Christine Wolf, with The Fund For Animals, a national organization that works on animal welfare-related issues, commended legislators for their concerns for animals and thanked those who helped create the felony animal cruelty law.
"This is indicative of future sociopathic behavior," she said of animal abuse.
Wolf said she and other female relatives, including her mother, are all domestic violence survivors who witnessed horrendous animal abuses committed by the men in their lives.
She said she is sometimes asked why she works on behalf of animals rather than people.
"My answer is simple. We're working at the source," Wolf said.
There is a proven link between people who abuse animals and people who hurt other people, including spouses or their children, she said.
Legislators said they also intend to introduce in next year's Legislative session a second animal-related bill that would enable police to cross-reference cases of animal cruelty with cases of domestic violence, Overington and Yoder said.
To bolster support for both laws, Overington said he will probably pass out to legislators newspaper articles about Kujo's killing. He predicted both bills will garner support from Democrats and Republicans.
Faircloth, who was being held in Eastern Regional Jail on $40,000 bail, was taken into custody Monday.
Police allege he tied the dog to the tracks with a short blue leash in an apparent attempt to decapitate it. Instead, the dog was able to wiggle its head away a little, causing its lower jaw to be cut off by the passing train.
The dog, which Animal Control officers said likely suffered by bleeding to death, was found the following morning on a set of tracks behind the Adam Stephen House in Martinsburg, off John Street.
Amy Faircloth told police that when she noticed Kujo was missing she confronted her husband, who told her "that the dog would be lucky to make it home," according to a criminal complaint filed by Gardner in Berkeley County Magistrate Court.
After reading a newspaper article about a dog being hit by a train, she told investigators that she believed the dog might have been hers.
She provided investigators with a photograph of Kujo. Gardner then confirmed Kujo was the dog who had been tied to the tracks, records state.
Magistrate Scott Paugh issued an arrest warrant charging Richard Faircloth with the felony.
Conviction on the charge carries a sentence of 1 to 3 years in prison and a fine of $1,000 to $5,000.
Naomi
Oct 20 2004, 09:01 AM

Exactly what I've learned in my domestic violence training. The cowards go after a defensless pet that's loved by the family (except for the perpetrator of course) in order to hurt the spouse.
I really hope these bills go through.
SMan
Oct 20 2004, 09:36 AM
"Domestic terrorism"???? I find that insulting to folks in Oklahoma City that were truly victims of domestic terrorism. This was a case of domestic mental abuse by killing the woman's dog, not terrorism.
BMIC
Oct 20 2004, 11:40 AM
We don't need more laws, we need better enforcement. This is just stupid nonsense that should go away once the headlines fade a little.
This is just a case of several idiots trying to further their political campaigns by taking advantage of this horrible situation. Shame on them!
PHISH
Oct 20 2004, 12:08 PM
QUOTE (BMIC @ Oct 20 2004, 11:40 AM)
We don't need more laws, we need better enforcement.
I disagree. I'm not saying that we need
more laws, but I think we need stricter laws. Those that participate in this kind of sick, twisted, animal cruelty should be locked up for more than a year or two - and possibly go under some psychological treatment. Studies have shown links between animal cruelty and psychos (like Jeffrey Daumer). I think a slap on the wrist is hardly severe enough.
Naomi
Oct 20 2004, 06:03 PM
I agree with you PHISH 100% on all counts!
Heather
Oct 20 2004, 09:17 PM
I guess it goes without saying that I agree as well.
BMIC
Oct 21 2004, 05:48 AM
Typical big-government, Democrat thinking. It's never about law ENFORCEMENT.
PHISH
Oct 21 2004, 07:35 AM
QUOTE (BMIC @ Oct 21 2004, 05:48 AM)
Typical big-government, Democrat thinking. It's never about law ENFORCEMENT.

Why do you have to make it a political thing? I didn't attack you in any way with my response. I simply stated my opinion, which happens to differ from yours. Then you have to attack my political views because I don't agree with your statement!
And how is my statement in line with big government? I didn't say we need more laws, I said there needs to be a heavier punishment, but I guess you think tying a dog to railroad tracks, allowing it to bleed to death while suffering, only constitutes a 1-2 year jail time.

Personally, I wouldn't want this person living anywhere NEAR me, because I'd be waiting for him to snap.
Snoopy
Oct 21 2004, 08:10 AM
I don't know what laws they have on the books now, so I can't comment as to whether we need more or stricter laws for animal cruelty. I tend to lean toward harsher sentences for criminals in general and less passing of laws that infringe on the law-abiding. But longer sentence possibilities alone won't fix things. The sad thing is that too many people and politicians (usually those who are liberal-leaning) have a bleeding-heart attitude toward the criminals who shed a tear or two or claim remorse once caught just so they can get lighter sentences or early parole. But the criminals know how to play the system.
I had reason to recently see and hear about the records of a few folks of, shall we say, less than admirable backgrounds. Criminal, lowlife scum is another way to describe them. It is sickening to see 8-10 year "sentences" for very serious felonies reduced to 18 months or less actual time in jail. It is sickening to see someone violate parole over and over again only to be released on parole again and again and
still never serve the entire original sentence.
Heck, you make animal cruelty sentences much tougher and I'd bet it is a 50-50 shot they'd be tougher than penalties for abusing children.
Just look at this Tuesday's Daily Mail. Man gets "3 years" for assault. He pistol-whipped the victim. 2nd degree assault and carrying a handgun were the charges. Wanna guess if this was this perp's first brush with the law? The guy got 3 years on the assault charge and
nothing for the handgun charge. Who thinks he will actually serve all 3 years? Yet how many people think we need more gun laws?
It sickens me, it pisses me off royally.
Naomi
Oct 21 2004, 08:18 AM
[QUOTE] Typical big-government, Democrat thinking. It's never about law ENFORCEMENT.
Here we go again with the politics! It all boils down to public safety (and of course the safety of the family) and getting this kind of maniac off the streets. It has nothing to do with politics!
I have a feeling BMIC thinks that since this was a dog and not an actual person tied to the tracks, that there's no need worry. But with the obvious mental problems of this person, I hope they strengthen the laws AND enforce them!
Heather
Oct 21 2004, 08:43 AM
At least keep your political sh!t storms out of
my threads. If you don't play nice, I'm taking my thread and going home. Better yet, I'll go to your politics threads and drone on about feminine hygiene or something worse! Don't make me do it!
Snoopy
Oct 21 2004, 09:16 AM
Heather, Naomi, and Phish,
You guys are hilarious sometimes.

You keep harping on politics seeping into threads. Check the mirror! The issue is political by nature, and
BMIC didn't start it. Heather did! (Legitimately, IMO.)
Heathers post yesterday was the
first to broach the political side of this issue -- just one example: "The brutal killing of a dog tied to a set of railroad tracks last week will not have happened in vain if
legislators pass two related bills in the upcoming session, local legislators and candidates said during a press conference Tuesday afternoon." Legislators, candidates, bills...sounds like
political issues to me.
Then Naomis says, "I really hope these bills go through." That political "bills" word again.
Then Phish says, (and Naomi and Heather agree), "I'm not saying that we need more laws, but I think we need stricter laws." How do we get law changes? Yep, a
political process.
After all that you have the nerve to ask "Why do you have to make it a political thing?"
Guys -- ladies -- please, laws cover so much of what we do and say every day it is difficult to find an issue that politics does not pertain to. To pretend otherwise doesn't make it so. So please stop criticizing when politics legitimately seeps into a conversation -- you've just seen how easy it happens.
PHISH
Oct 21 2004, 09:29 AM
What I don't appreciate is that my political views were attacked simply because I disagreed with BMIC. Yes, there are certain politics involved with this since the discussion has turned to the laws pertaining to this kind of malicious activity. However, not everything is democrats vs. republicans. I'm no longer replying to your political postings Snoopy - simply because it's not worth it to me. Now, anytime I post something, somebody has to turn it around and label me as some liberal radical. Well you can think what you want, but not everything has to be turned into name calling and a political bashing. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of hearing about it and discussing it. I may be wrong, but I think many others on this board seem to feel the same way (namely Heather and Naomi). It's just nasty anymore, and this board no longer discusses issues in a friendly manner. Now it's "them against us". Everyone seems to be divided and frankly, I want no parts.
Heather
Oct 21 2004, 09:40 AM
And inevitably the topic of this thread has been changed.
Snoopy, if we discussed why the night is blue, someone would eventually proclaim that it's a political argument because some political party wouldn't fund space missions.
Some of you are obviously hell bent on doing the democrats vs. republicans war over and over and over and over. You are arguing the same things over and over. You practically already know what each person participating will say...which stance they will have. It's old, tired, worn out, recycled too many times. Go ahead and do it again. I'm not insinuating that you care, but for what it's worth your credibility to discuss things reasonably is lessened considerably when you simply cannot resist posting politially charged responses to posts.
Next thread stop: politics. To discuss why Cheney didn't respond to my letter about more government sponsored yeast infection research. He's not for the women! He doesn't care about us!
Naomi
Oct 21 2004, 09:53 AM
QUOTE (Heather @ Oct 21 2004, 02:40 PM)
Next thread stop: politics. To discuss why Cheney didn't respond to my letter about more government sponsored yeast infection research. He's not for the women! He doesn't care about us!
What I find really funny about all this is that I very rarely venture into the politcal threads because of this very thing! I'm sure I have declared myself a republican in one thread, but I don't agree with all the bashing & name calling, the "I'm better than you!" that goes on! I simply commented on law inforcement, bills and prosecution because it was mentioned in the article. Then BMIC has the need to bust on PHISH for being a democrat!

This isn't a democratic vs republican thread...it's about a tragic event that I hope never happens again!
Snoopy
Oct 21 2004, 09:59 AM
I attacked no one's opinion on this. My post did not mention Democrats or Republicans. I said it is usually liberals who object most to harsher sentences, mandatory minimums, 3 strikes and you're out, etc. That is pretty well proven.
You guys advocated changing the laws. Okay. I don't know the current laws on animal abuse, and admitted so. Do you? Fine. But I do know that too often existing laws aren't very well enforced, and I have much proof of that, and so I warn that even with the higher maximum sentences you want you still may not get what you say you want -- harsher sentences (actually served) for the crimes you mention.
You won't too often see me object to harsher penalties for lawbreakers of any kind. I just want you to realize that harsher possible penalties very often do not equate to harsher punishment. You can't only look at half the issue. We as citizens must also push our lawmakers and enforcers to make sure the penalties are actually served. How would you feel if this dog-torturing guy is eligible for, say 1-5 years in jail, is sentenced to serve 4 years, and gets out in less than 1? Justice served?
How do you feel if this happens to a rapist, armed robber, or cocaine dealer? Justice? I think not. What do you think? I really wanna know, because I think under the personality stuff, we agree on this. But will anyone do anything about it?
PHISH
Oct 21 2004, 10:07 AM
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Oct 21 2004, 09:59 AM)
What do you think? I really wanna know, because I think under the personality stuff, we agree on this.
I do agree with you. Often times sentences aren't carried out to full term, when they should be - whether it be animal abusers, rapists, murderers, whatever. Good behavior in prison should be awarded
to an extent, but not necessarily by cutting the sentence - and this of course depends on the crime. Maybe rewarding the prisoner with other things - I'm not sure what, but the smallest things can make a prisoner happy - longer time to stay outside, watch tv, buy cigarettes - whatever.
Naomi
Oct 21 2004, 10:10 AM
I see your points Snoop. I'm all for stiffer penalties for the criminals that you mentioned, along with crimes like this guy commited. But in this case I'm thinking this guy may be psycho and need some help in that respect, not just released to run free on the streets and take his anger out on his wife or kids.
Snoopy
Oct 21 2004, 10:38 AM
Agreed, good behavior should count for something as it probably helps the guards maintain order. But cutting a sentence of "10 years" for a serious felony to 3 years immediately by suspending 7 years, and then further cutting it for "good behavior" to maybe a year is sad, IMO. Maybe the 3 years is minimum and any infractions start to bring back some of the suspended time.
If the person is treatably "psycho", help in that area is fine, but what if his "treatment" shows no real change but his time is up?

Eek!
I wish we had better judicial watchdog groups at the lower court levels so it would be easier to see what judges are handing out as initial sentences and what time is actually getting served. Accountability is the key. Certainly making one's feeling known to politicians is easy (usually can do it by e-mail). But it helps to have easy access to the facts, and the newspaper doesn't report enough of them.
How about a judicial watch column in the local paper, covering local courts, following-up, etc. ? Reporting the facts, letting the public decide. I'd like it!
peacefrog
Oct 21 2004, 11:18 AM
Not that this situation is humorous at all, but this reminds me of a scene from "Miss Congeniality"... where Will Shatner asks Sandra Bullock (a Miss America contestant), "What's the one thing we need in society today?" or something like that... and she replies:
"That would be harsher penalties for parole violators, Stan."
LOL. That scene makes me laugh. Probably because I definitely believe we need harsher penalties for parole violators.
That said, I think we need BOTH stiffer penalties AND better enforcement.
On the flip side… do you guys think the political discussions on this board will slow down once the election is over? I hope so…
GreedyXJ
Oct 21 2004, 11:38 AM
QUOTE (peacefrog @ Oct 21 2004, 12:18 PM)
On the flip side… do you guys think the political discussions on this board will slow down once the election is over? I hope so…
X eleventy gazillion
Naomi
Oct 21 2004, 11:55 AM
I hope soooo!
BMIC
Oct 21 2004, 12:51 PM
QUOTE (Naomi @ Oct 21 2004, 08:18 AM)
with the obvious mental problems of this person, I hope they strengthen the laws AND enforce them!
If the person is in fact mentally ill, then he needs treatment, not jail time. But I don't think this guy is truly mentally ill.
The idea that somebody with mental problems needs harsher punishment is extremely offensive to anyone who has had any experience with mental illness.
BMIC
Oct 21 2004, 01:02 PM
SHEESH! PHISH! I was responding to Heather, not you!
Democrats are typically all about making more and more laws, hiring more and more do-nothing regulators to enforce them, and then fighting for the most lenient sentencing possible whenever anyone tries to punush offenders.
I pointed out the fact that the knee-jerk response "we need a new law" (or in this case, two) is a clear example of this. What we need is to give this guy the punishment that the existing law ought to provide for.
Regardless of the motive behind it, felony animal cruelty is serious sh.. and they should throw the book at him. Not write a NEW book.
As Snoopy pointed out, I wasn't the one to bring in politics. If the topic of this thread has changed, it was HEATHER who changed it. NOT ME.
P.S. - Please note that I said we don't need NEW LAWS. I AGREE that we may need stiffer punishment for vioating the laws that are already on the books. That is to say that, um, I AGREE with PHISH! As I said, SHEESH!
Heather
Oct 21 2004, 01:05 PM
B, so you don't think he might need mental treatment AND jail time? I don't understand that. Just because someone is mental means they don't have to take responsibility for their actions?
The movie Slingblade just popped into my head in relation to this conversation.
BMIC
Oct 21 2004, 01:08 PM
QUOTE (Heather @ Oct 21 2004, 01:05 PM)
B, so you don't think he might need mental treatment AND jail time? I don't understand that. Just because someone is mental means they don't have to take responsibility for their actions?
It depends on the degree to which they are "mental". The insanity defense is almost never totally valid, and in most every case treatment should therefore be followed by jail time.
Snoopy
Oct 21 2004, 01:22 PM
QUOTE (BMIC @ Oct 21 2004, 02:02 PM)
P.S. - Please note that I said we don't need NEW LAWS. I AGREE that we may need stiffer punishment for vioating the laws that are already on the books.
Not sure what you mean, B. Do you mean 3 years sentence = 3 years served or do you mean that if the max. penalty now is 3 years it needs to be increased to, say, 5 years?
PHISH
Oct 21 2004, 02:04 PM
QUOTE (BMIC @ Oct 21 2004, 01:02 PM)
That is to say that, um, I AGREE with PHISH! As I said, SHEESH!

In that case, I will retract my statement. I guess I was confused since you replied to Heather's post already, and then after I posted, you made the statement about democrats. So I assumed this was a response to my post. In any case, I'm glad we can agree.
Naomi
Oct 21 2004, 02:22 PM
QUOTE (PHISH @ Oct 21 2004, 07:04 PM)
QUOTE (BMIC @ Oct 21 2004, 01:02 PM)
That is to say that, um, I AGREE with PHISH! As I said, SHEESH!

In that case, I will retract my statement. I guess I was confused since you replied to Heather's post already, and then after I posted, you made the statement about democrats. So I assumed this was a response to my post. In any case, I'm glad we can agree.
I took it the same way you did PHISH! Strange having you two agree on something
Heather
Oct 21 2004, 02:23 PM
QUOTE (BMIC @ Oct 21 2004, 01:02 PM)
As Snoopy pointed out, I wasn't the one to bring in politics. If the topic of this thread has changed, it was HEATHER who changed it. NOT ME.
I did not.

B! Shut it!
Talk laws, bills, law enforcement all you want. It's the parts where it's all "liberal democrats stupid ideas of blah blah blah" and then Phish or Sheesh goes "yeah but conservative, stuffy busy bodies lack the intelligence to blah blah blah".
Quit bringing me closer to openly discussing my monthly cycle in the politics forum! DON'T MAKE ME DO IT!
PHISH
Oct 21 2004, 02:28 PM
QUOTE (Heather @ Oct 21 2004, 02:23 PM)
It's the parts where it's all "liberal democrats stupid ideas of blah blah blah" and then Phish or Sheesh goes "yeah but conservative, stuffy busy bodies lack the intelligence to blah blah blah".


Hey! I'm trying to steer clear of the political subjects. I understand everyone's getting tired of it - myself included - and you were right to say "It's old, tired, worn out, recycled too many times." I agree. I think I've been pretty good at not taking the bait!
JessicaMarie
Oct 21 2004, 02:28 PM
hehehe... heather, that's one of the best parts of being pregnant (not counting the whole "Life inside ME" experience)... no monthly cycle! Praise the Lord!!!!!

This story really sucks. For the dog, for the community... I hope the guy gets what he deserves. I'm not a major animal rights activist, but I've got to tell you that any man willing to do this has some SERIOUS issues and society needs protected by whatever means available!
GreedyXJ
Oct 22 2004, 07:08 AM
QUOTE (Heather @ Oct 21 2004, 03:23 PM)
Quit bringing me closer to openly discussing my monthly cycle in the politics forum! DON'T MAKE ME DO IT!

So do you bloat?cramp?crave?etc...
Do you get real mean???
Snoopy
Oct 22 2004, 07:40 AM
QUOTE (Heather @ Oct 21 2004, 03:23 PM)
Quit bringing me closer to openly discussing my monthly cycle in the politics forum! DON'T MAKE ME DO IT!

I doubt most of the folks here respond well to threats.

Do whatever you want. Most of the guys here have heard it all before (over and over again) from the women in their lives anyway.
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