Not just about homeschooling, but this definitely isn't an issue limited to one County's school system, and it is one that many homeschooling families are worried about, so here we go.

Christians - should we send our kids to Public Schools? It's a question Christians have been asking ourselves for decades, and it's one that IMO we need to carefully consider, perhaps now more than ever.

Yes, we ARE called to be "out there" in the world - in it, but not of it - to be "salt" and "light" - active and influential members of our society. Salt being a seasoning, we are to impart a Christian "flavor" - some of our sense of morality and worldview - to the community's overall character. As light, we are to shine the illuminating standards of morality and righteousness into the dark corners of our society, revealing evil and evil influences for what they truly are.

But should that apply to our kids, too? Is it really approriate to immerse a developing, vulnerable child into the antagonistic environment of the secular school system? In the public schools, they are surrounded by adults whom they are to somehow respect and yet who often seek to teach them a worldview that is radically different from that which we know from the Bible. Is that a place we ought to be sending our children?

A recent article from the Agape press really hit me. Here's an excerpt, and a link to the full article as found on crosswalk.com:

"Study Shows Public Schools Indoctrinate Even Christian Kids
Jim Brown and Jenni Parker
Agape Press

A researcher has revealed some disturbing trends regarding the sets of beliefs Christian students in public schools have about the most important issues in life.

Dan Smithwick is the founder and president of the Nehemiah Institute, a group that provides a biblical worldview testing and training service to Christian educators. He is the developer of what is called the "PEERS test," a tool to assess the worldviews of young people, and says the majority of public school students from evangelical Christian homes consistently score in the "socialist" category on the test.
. . .
Smithwick's worldview test consists of a series of statements carefully designed to identify a person's worldview in five categories: Politics, Economics, Education, Religion, and Social Issues (PEERS). Each statement is framed to either agree or disagree with a biblical principle.

. . . This is because, while Christian school students are generally taught curricula predicated on a biblical worldview, students educated in public schools, even when they grow up in Christian homes, tend to a very high degree to adopt the non-biblical and socialistic worldviews of the secular humanists in control of their education."

Full text of article here - http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/1298515.html

A lot of homeschoolers choose to homeschool their kids because they're concerned about this very thing: indoctrination - brainwashing - by the secularist and secular humanist institution that is the Public School system. Secularism and secular humanism are, of course, worldviews/belief systems that many think of as being at least pseudo-religions - so much for the "separation of Church and State" (an unconstitutional concept in itself, but I digress). So maybe this isn't really off-topic.

For my kids it may be a bit too late: my eldest is about to graduate, and the younger one is in High School. But this article really revived some of my deepest fears about their having been raised in the Public School system. I was myself, and I know that it took many years to realize how deeply affected I was by worldly views and standards - views and standards that are often in sharp contrast to the truths of scripture - and even now I sometimes catch myself applying wordly standards and attitudes to various situations.

Do a lot of the Christians in our community send their kids to Christian schools? How many of you choose to homeschool your kids for the above reasons? What have you observed about those kids whom you or your fellow Christians have sent to public schools versus Christian schools or the Christian homeschooled? How many, like me, are troubled, feeling like they have little choice, since both parents seems to "have to" work to support the household yet we cannot afford to send the kids to a Christian school?

(AP)Mrs. Billy (Tammy-Jo) Jenkins, Christain Homemaker and Proud Homeschooler, has initiated a project by which students will be 'Homeschooled' in an environment free of the Devil's influences. The "Homeschooling Are Children" project, would be a little bit like Vacation Bible School, only it would last for an entire year. We'll let Tammy-Jo explain it to you.

"I like many of you alls got real scared by the secular stuff that was been teached to are children in them public schools and the unChristain stuff that was being rammed down there little throwts. Well the Lord called me, Tammy-Jo, to take maters into my own hand and to do something about all them lies our children are teached. Did you know that a teacher is allowed to talk about ungodly people like Einstein (a Jew) and Darwin (a liar) but our not allowed to spend the hole day reading Bible stories to are youngsters? That is why I started Landover’s “Homeschooling Are Children Project” to protect are youngins from dangerous secular humanist garbage been teached in public schools -- like physics and biology.

Are childrens good education is bout the most important thing we can give them all. So why whould anyone trust it to nonChristains and other Satanic types? I think I speak with some authority when I say that public schools our no place to teach children. I know that I, Tammy-Jo, got so disgusted with what was being teached as “fact” by nonChristains that Jesus Christ Himself called me out of school at the age 15 to be a mother insteed of even bothering to waste yet one more year in the 8th grade. He in His mercy spared me from occultist subjects like foreign tongues (French) and occult animal sacrifices (frog dissection).

Now I am hearing Jesus’s call again to become a teacher so that I can make sure that my 6 white children are not polluted by been told that they come from some apes. Yes it is shocking but it is true as can be!

I have being asked by the Landover Ladies Committee, with a grant from Mrs. Betty Bowers’ Bringing Integrity To Christian Homemakers, to teach Christain Reading and Christain Writting. Our you real good at something? We our currently looking for someone to teach Christain Arithmetic (which proves that the world is bout 6,000 years old by adding up all the “begets”) and Christain Logic (so far no takers).

One thing I can promise you – their WILL be prayer in OUR school! ALL the time!! And NO black trenchcoats, harlotty make-up or things pierced! And our children will learn to WRITE RIGHT! Hallelujah!"

I wouldn't let my kids in the same room with that ignorant, racist, redneck.
I don't advocate violence against women and I've never put a hand on one
but this woman would drive me to it in about 5 minutes. ..... (by adding up all the “begets”) sad part is she made it to 8th grade with a second grade education.

Yoss...is that for real???

Anyway, to reply to B's post, I have many Christian friends that have made different choices based on their circumstances.

One family in particular could have afforded to send their kids to private school from pre-school on, but they instead decided to give them the public school experience in elementary school. Once in middle school they sent them to a private Christian school. The two eldest children (out of 5) are now at Yale and Princeton. The next eldest is entering seminary next year. I admire this family, simply because they are always out in the public helping others, whether it's at the homeless shelter, the soup kitchen, or assisting at the public school activities. They are wealthy enough to sit in their big house and shelter their kids from the world, but they don't. They are always teaching their kids to help those in need, and how to get along with others and not be judgemental.

This said, IMO I think it's up to the family to keep things in perspective for the kids. The parents need to model the behavior they would like for their kids, and keep the kids in activities outside of school time that can enrich their lives, such as serving in the community. Children may listen & learn in public school, but they also learn at home and believe it or not, they hear what their parents say and take it to heart...and often model their parents behavior, no matter where they attend school.

B,
My parents had me in Catholic school from 1st - 5th grade. Then, they bought a new house and couldn't afford to keep me in private school, so I went to public schools for the rest of my education, but I was forced by my father to go to CCD classes every Wednesday night until my father died in 1974 (12th grade).

Personally, I resented that, and still do. I had joined a Girl Scout troop, and was having a great time, but when my CCD classes started happening on the same night, the Girl Scouts had to go.

Also, we had a neighbor here a few years back who home-schooled their kids, but I don't know when or how much they actually learned. The kids were outside playing (playing, not learning) at all hours of the day and night. And also, a guy I used to work with had 4 kids who were home-schooled, and his wife did a wonderful job of it - they did field trips and everything!

My personal opinion is that if you want to home-school your kids, that's fine. In fact, I could never home-school a kid - Algebra and Geometry are STILL beyond my comprehension, and Chemistry is a very strong second when it comes to lack of ability. I would not be able to give a kid a good education.

I'd say that if the person who was going to do the home-schooling was educated and motivated enough to make sure the children were at least on par with those in the public schools, more power to them. However, please don't force them to miss out on other activities (i.e. girl scouts, sports, etc.). I do believe those things help to round a kid out. Furthermore, I'd be concerned that they Could be too secluded - those outside activities would teach them how to deal socially.

Valid concerns that can be, and often are, addressed. Some school districts open up their extracurricular programs to homeschooled kids, there are plenty of community programs such as the Girl Scouts that are open to everyone, and in addition there are homeschoolers' associations and local networks that provide a means whereby kids can get the socialization they need, be it in the community at large or with other Christian kids. I think it's very possible for kids to learn to deal socially, even with non-Christian kids, without immersing them in the public schools full time, with the attendant negative results demonstrated in this study.

One thing that may explain those neighbor kiids you see running around: due to the amount of one-on-one instruction in a much less distracting environment, many homeschooled kids get through their studies much more efficiently than they would in a public school. Standardized tests, sometimes recommended, sometimes required by the local school board, sometimes provided by a homeschool organization, help to assure that the kids still have learned what they are supposed to learn.

Your experience is very regrettable. My ex was forced to go to Catholic schools until High School, through CCD, and the whole bit, and all it did for her was taught her to resent and ultimately reject the whole package. She was far from sheltered, though. She got into all sorts of negative things that I never did, in rebellion against her parents' overbearing pressure.

I'm not neccessarily suggesting forcing kids to go to Christian schools, nor to be homeschooled. The kids should have some say in the matter, and parents need to listen to their kids' opinions, though obviously the parents must make the final decision. I AM suggesting that families should have the option of choosing the method that they prefer, and need to be VERY AWARE of the consequences of their choices. Some kids, having experienced both, do much better with Christian schooling. Some kids, sometimes in the same family, do just fine spednign at least some time in the public schools. But parents need to be aware of what is going on, and prepared to address it. if their kids are in the public schools, they need to know that it's all the more important to spend the time to help them put it all into perspective.

P.S. - Leave it to Yoss (and AP) to come up with an extreme example of somebody who's way out there who gives a poor and totally warped impression of the Christian homeschooler. There are a few wackos out there, sure. But there are lots more who are doing a very good job homeschooling their kids. Homeschooled and Christian schooled kids usually have to pass the same standardized tests as everyone else. I amost included a plea in my orignal message to please NOT let this become a Christian-hating thread. Now I regret not having done so.

I know very little about this topic but that's never stopped me from adding my 2 cents before.

The extent of my knowledge on this topic is based on the fact that my brother and his wife in KY home-schooled their 2 children. I have 9 brothers and sisters (believe it or not) and we grew up Catholic, so like any good Catholic family, we expressed our reservations to each other when they told us of their intentions but, for the most part, we all supported them publicly.

Their children are now out of college, one is recently married, the other has a promising career (graduated from Oral Roberts University) making documentary films, and they are both very happy and out-going people. So I guess the doubts were unwarranted.

Yoss
That's a funny story and I have no doubt that AP printed it but sorry, I don't buy it as authentic. Even I misspell Einstein occasionally but I usually use "are" and "our" in the right context. But is there any wonder why I don't trust anything I read.

I must make one other comment that I know a little more about. I read the Crosswalk article and I while I agree with many of their observations I must point out that secular humanism did not begin with and certainly won't end with the teachings of John Dewey.

From Aristotle, to Galileo, to Thomas Jefferson, there have been many brilliant minds who have espoused its principles. Contrary to some claims our culture doesn't teach anything about secular humanism. IMO, it barely offers a hint that a fulfilling life is even possible without some form of religion as a base.

Not to offend anybody here, but I don't see how anybody can get a good education being homeschooled since most of the time the parent isn't even a certified teacher. Plus, these students miss out on things in high school such as sports, after school clubs, and dances. I also find that many Christian schools, or at least in this area, tend to be un-accredited unless they are Catholic, Episcopal, or Lutheran, and I don't see how any caring parent could send their kid to an un-accredited school.

Einstein was home-schooled, Tammy-Jo.

Back to B's original question, I also have several friends that are public school teachers in different counties around Maryland. A few have made sacrifices to send their kids to private schools, not because of concerns over teachers, but concerns over peer-pressure, class size and safety. As teachers, they don't have a great income, but both parents work, they drive used cars that they've paid off and live in affordable homes; among other sacrifices.

Another Christian family that I know home schools their 3 children, while the dad is a public school teacher. They live in a very modest home and have only one vehicle. They belong to a home school group out of their church, which supplies the curriculum. In this way it isn't as expensive as sending the kids to the private school. The mom handles most of the teaching during the day and takes the kids on field trips with other home school families. When dad gets home he often does some lessons with the kids also. I've been impressed with the kids development and behavior.

I myself have never home schooled. My kids attended public schools and have always done fine, as long as I remembered to reinforce our family's beliefs and morals at home and kept them active at church.

That reminds me I need to point out that it's not always the teachers who are responsible for the bias the kids are learning. It's the textbooks and the basic curriculum, which are out of the teachers' control in the public school unless I am mistaken.

That second family sounds a lot like my sister. Her hubby is a Southern Baptist Minister, and she homeschools their 4 boys. Her eldest has chosen to attend the public high school for this, his Senior year, and is excelling, and he's a starter on the football team! My sister has a degree in Early Childhood Education, and they are part of a homeschool network that provides all sorts of help, plus they go on flield trips together. The kids are required to take standardized tests to prove they have mastered the required content, and they alway have excellent scores.

I've heard more than once that many colleges actually give preference to homeschooled kids. Anyone who visits a public high school during the school day these days will plainly see why homeschooling is so much more productive.

Teacher certification does not guarantee a good teacher, period. I know of some certified teachers even today who are downright awful, but because of the union they keep teaching. And I know some people who know the stuff but can't teach it -- even at the college level. I'm not a certified teacher, but I have done a good bit of in-house training at work and had several "students" tell me I was one of the best "teachers" they ever had. I know a family who homeschools several kids -- neither parent is a "teacher" as far as any certifications, but their kids score very high on SAT's and have colleges clamoring for them.

Yes, but certified teachers have taken classes that show them how to teach, how to deal with behavior problems, etc. Certified teachers have to live up to some sort of standards that are neccessary for teaching.

Homeschooling removes several of those facets that certified teachers receive training for, such as behavior problems, planning lessons for different ability levels within one classroom, etc. Not all parents could or even should homeschool their kids. It requires a good bit of discipline and dedication for it to be a productive and positive experience for parent and child.

Personally, I would love to homeschool my daughter during elementary and even middle school. However, I would question my ability to teach her into high school, because, while I am very strong in math and science, I can't explain it to save my life.
I know my limitations, but not everyone does, and that is where the biggest problem lies in homeschooling, IMO.

If the kids master the subject matter as demonstrated by passing standardized tests, then I can't see why it matters if the parents are certified or not. The results (students' performance) prove the adequacy of the instruction received. Homeschooling works, period.

P.S.- It's not very uncommon for homeschooled kids to go back to the public schools or Christian schools for the highest grades, in part for the reasons moms gives - that the moms don't feel comfortable with more advanced subject matter, in spite of all of the help available.

Those "classes" and "standards" aren't necessarily effective though. I'm a results-oriented guy. Do they get the job done, regardless of "classes" or "standards"?

How many of us have seen people w/o a degree perform better than a degreed person in the same job -- even one directly relevant to the degree? How many people in business -- especially manufacturing -- know of a company that has a fancy-dancy, whiz-bang, ISO 9001 certified quality system that nevertheless gets greatly outperformed for quality by a different company with no formal quality system or one based on an old, outdated MIL-spec? It happens.

You will never convince me that these "standards" you speak of that "certified" teachers meet "are neccessary for teaching" because I know better and this idea is disproven daily by thousands of homeschool teachers.

No, not every parent can or will be an effective teacher. But neither is every "certified" teacher an effective teacher.

"In 2000, the group of home-schooled SAT takers also had higher SAT averages: The average SAT scores of home-schooled students were 568 Verbal and 532 Math, above the national averages of 505 Verbal and 514 Math."


2001 scores: "This year's national average of 506 in verbal, 514 in math, and 1020 overall fell short of home schoolers scores. The national average SAT scores of home schoolers were 567 in verbal, 525 in math, and a whopping 1092 overall. "Home schoolers are raising the bar for academic excellence nationwide," said Tom Washburne, Director for the National Center for Home Education. "With 3 years of superior scores, colleges are sitting up and taking a serious look at what parent-educated students are achieving."

A good article from the Wall Street Journal:

http://www.oakmeadow.com/resources/articles/WSJArticle.htm

A excerpt: "The high scores are no fluke. As the movement grows larger and more diverse, evidence is mounting that home-schooling, once confined to the political and religious fringe, has achieved results not only on par with public education, but in some ways surpassing it."

Finally, a much longer and more comprehensive report, from the Home School Legal Defense Association:

http://nche.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp

I'll say one thing, if you are sent into a public school as a Chirstain, from a homeschool or private school, it will test your faith.

What's a chirstain? some kind of special-ed student?

Now play nicely, WVD.

Poor example there