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tattoomeb
http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeas...in_iraq?mode=PF

QUOTE
Study cites seeds of terror in Iraq
War radicalized most, probes find
By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff  |  July 17, 2005

WASHINGTON -- New investigations by the Saudi Arabian government and an Israeli think tank -- both of which painstakingly analyzed the backgrounds and motivations of hundreds of foreigners entering Iraq to fight the United States -- have found that the vast majority of these foreign fighters are not former terrorists and became radicalized by the war itself.

The studies, which together constitute the most detailed picture available of foreign fighters, cast serious doubt on President Bush's claim that those responsible for some of the worst violence are terrorists who seized on the opportunity to make Iraq the ''central front" in a battle against the United States.

''The terrorists know that the outcome [in Iraq]will leave them emboldened or defeated," Bush said in his nationally televised address on the war at Fort Bragg in North Carolina last month. ''So they are waging a campaign of murder and destruction." The US military is fighting the terrorists in Iraq, he repeated this month, ''so we do not have to face them here at home."

However, interrogations of nearly 300 Saudis captured while trying to sneak into Iraq and case studies of more than three dozen others who blew themselves up in suicide attacks show that most were heeding the calls from clerics and activists to drive infidels out of Arab land, according to a study by Saudi investigator Nawaf Obaid, a US-trained analyst who was commissioned by the Saudi government and given access to Saudi officials and intelligence.

A separate Israeli analysis of 154 foreign fighters compiled by a leading terrorism researcher found that despite the presence of some senior Al Qaeda operatives who are organizing the volunteers, ''the vast majority of [non-Iraqi] Arabs killed in Iraq have never taken part in any terrorist activity prior to their arrival in Iraq."

''Only a few were involved in past Islamic insurgencies in Afghanistan, Bosnia, or Chechnya," the Israeli study says. Out of the 154 fighters analyzed, only a handful had past associations with terrorism, including six who had fathers who fought the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, said the report, compiled by the Global Research in International Affairs Center in Herzliya, Israel.

American intelligence officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, and terrorism specialists paint a similar portrait of the suicide bombers wreaking havoc in Iraq: Prior to the Iraq war, they were not Islamic extremists seeking to attack the United States, as Al Qaeda did four years ago, but are part of a new generation of terrorists responding to calls to defend their fellow Muslims from ''crusaders" and ''infidels."

''The president is right that Iraq is a main front in the war on terrorism, but this is a front we created," said Peter Bergen, a terrorism specialist at the nonpartisan New America Foundation, a Washington think tank.

Foreign militants make up only a small percentage of the insurgents fighting in Iraq, as little as 10 percent, according to US military and intelligence officials. The top general in Iraq said late last month that about 600 foreign fighters have been captured or killed by coalition forces since the Jan. 30 Iraqi elections. The wider insurgency, numbering in the tens of thousands, is believed to consist of former Iraqi soldiers, Saddam Hussein loyalists, and members of Iraq's Sunni Muslim minority.

But the impact of the foreign fighters has been enormous. They are blamed for the almost daily suicide attacks against US and Iraqi forces and have killed thousands of civilians, mostly members of Iraq's Shia Muslim majority. Their exploits have been responsible for much of the headline-grabbing carnage recently, contributing to the slide in American public support for the war.


-Article continues-
cfulmor
Now there's a respected news organization: The Boston Globe. There is NO liberal bias there.

Once I saw where the article came from, that was all I needed to see. Next topic please.
Snoopy
And we know the terrorists always tell the truth and have no agenda. blink.gif More "blame the US" bunk.

I hear that Hagerstown Trust created a breeding ground for bank robbers, too. If they wouldn't have built banks no one woulda robbed them! Ask the robbers, they'll tell ya!
SMan
Once again, I'll say this is good news! Kill the animals there, instead of here. If it wasn't Iraq that set these radicals off, it would have been some other perceived injustice to the Arab world.
SMan
That's my point. Infuriate them, agitate them, do whatever it takes to draw them to battlefields like Iraq. The more of them that die in the sands of Arabia, the less of them that are blowing themselves up in our (meaning the entire civilized world, not just the US) cities.

If they weren't heading to Iraq, they would be sitting in some mosque in London or Paris or New York plotting against us.
SMan
BTW, why aren't you in your hammock?
Idiot
QUOTE (SMan @ Jul 18 2005, 11:22 AM)
BTW, why aren't you in your hammock?

I'm waiting for the shade to reach it, that's usually about 2:00PM.

I'm under the umbrella on the pier and hoping for a little breeze. It's 93 degrees and the humidity must be about 70% already.

What did we do before wireless networks?

5 crabs in the pot, one's a female. She may survive depending on how many I end up with.

Stay cool.
cfulmor
How are we in the "barrel" with them?
cfulmor
Have you ever served in the Armed Forces?

War is not a neat and clean set of events.

Kosovo, was the exception (If one was to classify that as a war).

Every Soldier, Marine, Sailor and Airman, is made well aware of the inherant dangers of VOLUNTEERING in todays military.

Unfortunately the media, ALL MEDIA, only shows the bad stuff. I served over there, I talked to the troops as they came out of IRAQ, and yes it is a mess. However, the large majority of the troops said we are doing good, and the media is doing a BAD job reporting it.
tattoomeb
QUOTE
Every Soldier, Marine, Sailor and Airman, is made well aware of the inherant dangers of VOLUNTEERING in todays military.
Abusing the priviledge of our all volunteer army by sending them into something like this is taking away our ability to keep it volunteer.

QUOTE
However, the large majority of the troops said we are doing good, and the media is doing a BAD job reporting it.


The bad way out weighs the good. True, the media should be covering the good as well. IMO any soldier in Iraq who looked at being there as not doing good would go crazy. I bet everyday they are finding it harder and harder to convince themselves of the good.
cfulmor
Have you ever served in the military?
tattoomeb
No I personally have not. I have family and friends who have and do.
cfulmor
Then I'm sorry, one can not gain the proper perspective until he/she walks in a soldiers boots.

[QUOTE]The bad way out weighs the good.


So says who? The liberal biased media? Talk to the troops.
tattoomeb
QUOTE
Then I'm sorry, one can not gain the proper perspective until he/she walks in a soldiers boots.
I may not know exactly how they feel and do not claim to. I also do not need a pair of boots to know right from wrong.

QUOTE
So says who? The liberal biased media? Talk to the troops.


If we are doing so much good how come the administration says nothing about it? Why are they not force feeding it to the press? Where are all the examples of the good we are doing?
cfulmor
I can not say for sure, but I'm pretty confident that the media is being given the good.

However "good" does not sell very well to the liberal media. They want gore and guts, to discredit the administration.
tattoomeb
QUOTE
I can not say for sure, but I'm pretty confident that the media is being given the good.

However "good" does not sell very well to the liberal media. They want gore and guts, to discredit the administration.


If the administration had info they wanted out there it would be.

Gore and guts has nothing to do with liberal media its MEDIA period.

Everyone can say better to fight them there or whatever they want. But it does not change the fact they are still here in the US they are still in London, Madrid and any other place they were before the war.
tattoomeb
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050718/ts_af...bDltBHNlYwM3MTY
QUOTE
Blair under pressure after think-tank link London attacks to Iraq war


LONDON (AFP) - British Prime Minister Tony Blair came under fresh pressure for supporting the Iraq war after a respected think-tank linked the invasion to Britain's worst terror attack in which at least 55 people died.

The comments -- rejected by the government -- came as interior minister Charles Clarke prepared to meet his opposition counterparts to discuss planned anti-terrorism laws, and as a global hunt for clues into who planned the July 7 bombings in London forged on.

The Royal Institute of International Affairs, known as Chatham House, concluded in a report that the war in Iraq gave a "boost" to Al-Qaeda and made Britain especially vulnerable to attacks -- a theory that clashed with Blair's belief that there is no link with the July 7 bombings.

"There is no doubt that the situation over Iraq has imposed particular difficulties for the UK, and for the wider coalition against terrorism," said the London-based research centre in its study, "Riding Pillion for Tackling Terrorism is a High-risk Policy".

"It gave a boost to the Al-Qaeda network's propaganda, recruitment and fundraising," Chatham House said, arguing that it also provided an ideal training area for Al-Qaeda-linked terrorists and deflected resources that could have gone to help bring terror mastermind Osama bin Laden to justice.


IMO, reports like this will only continue to grow. Our first defense against terror is securing our own country and borders.
cfulmor
Keep believing the drivel put out by these supposed "think tanks". Lets just all board up our homes and not go out at all.
tattoomeb
QUOTE
Keep believing the drivel put out by these supposed "think tanks". Lets just all board up our homes and not go out at all.


Or you could just stick your head back in the sand and ignore the problem. If we do not do something to guard against the terror at home and in other civilized parts of the world it will get worse. Iraq is doing nothing to protect the rest of the world against terror. By wasting money and resources on Iraq we will leave other vulnerable holes. The terrorists will find these holes and they will exploit them. In the mean time we just give the terrorists a recruiting tool and more propaganda.
SMan
No sense starting a new thread on this because the only ones that will read it are all in here. smile.gif

Congressman Tancredao suggests a possible response to a terrorist nuclear attack on the US. His suggested target: Mecca.

Link to story.

At first, I was a little shocked at the idea. The more I thought about it, the better I liked the idea. Not the idea of nuking something, but the idea that maybe now, our nameless, uniformless, countryless enemy has something that it may be afraid to lose. Our mutually assured destruction card to play on Islamic fundamentalists, if you will. Just stop and think how devasting a nuclear attack on one of our cities would be.

The clerics and mosques around the world that breed these terrorists would possibly think twice and maybe even help put the clamps some of the violence. Faced with the prospect of losing their holyiest of holy sites, which if I remember correctly, must be vistied to guarantee your place in the afterlife, could alter their way of thinking.

I've said before that I don't believe that terrorists could be reasoned with. Could this be a bargaining chip that terrorist might actually understand?
tattoomeb
QUOTE
Here's an article that will confirm most, if not all, of my statements:


Thanks for the info just so you know it wasn't wasted.

Unfortunatley for the administration it won't take a rocket scientist to figure out that we are not going back to pre 911 numbers. Like you pretty much stated though you can't force people to look at the information available.

There is way to much interparty protection going on and not just by the repubs. If data and inside info is going to be leaked why not this kind of statistical data that the American people deserve to know.

I was reading the PROM thread earlier and Tony said something about the NRA that really caught my attention. He was talking about how they are so obsessed with "winning" they lose sight of the intrestes they should be giving priority.

Both parties dem and repub have done this for years if not decades. It is just getting worse everyday. It disgustes me to see this take place, the mean time no one is looking out for the American people. How hard is it to distinguish right from wrong?

In the mean time our troops are over there fighting a almost hopeless battle. Everyone knows changes need to be made but does nothing about it. We need a new game plan and fast. The only way we can change things is to admit we have a serious problem(which the Bush administration refuses to do). I am starting to think that as long as Bush and his gang are in control we will keep headed down this path.

This is unfortuante for his replacement. No matter who it is they will probably be looked at as a failure. For they will have to clean up the biggest mess of all time.
SMan
We just elected you president, tatoomeb. Tell me how you will handle Iraq and world terrorism differently. It will be easier for me to see your point of view if you have some logical ideas for doing things differently and not just saying the current way is wrong.
tattoomeb
QUOTE
I've said before that I don't believe that terrorists could be reasoned with. Could this be a bargaining chip that terrorist might actually understand?


I think if anything hearing this will only infuriate them more. I equate this to something I heard on CNN last night. A chinese general stated that if they became involved in a conflict with the US the would have to nuke us.

It is just a statement but at the same time a very scary one.
tattoomeb
QUOTE
We just elected you president, tatoomeb. Tell me how you will handle Iraq and world terrorism differently. It will be easier for me to see your point of view if you have some logical ideas for doing things differently and not just saying the current way is wrong.


This one will take sometime but I will bite and respond as best I can.
Give me awhile I need to try to sneak some time in for this one.
SMan
Yeah, I don't think I was really expecting the threat to scare the terrorists. Who it might scare is the clerics that preach to these nutbags and put them down the road to terror.

You previously mentioned stopping the root causes of terror (I think). You don't believe this would have any effect at all on those on the fringe of terror? I mean the ones that offer support, even if it is just providing sanctuary or turning a blind eye when they have the knowledge to stop terrorists.

I look forward to reading what you, or somebody like-minded, would do differently. Because right now, I see no other alternative than meeting force with force. sad.gif
SMan
QUOTE (tattoomeb @ Jul 19 2005, 10:56 AM)
This one will take sometime but I will bite and respond as best I can.
Give me awhile I need to try to sneak some time in for this one.

Alright, let me take a crack at this.

My first step would be to stop befriending nations that hide terrorists, no matter how much it hurts economically <cough>Saudi Arabia <cough> or impacts our hunt for Bin Laden <cough>Pakistan<cough>.
BMIC
QUOTE (cfulmor @ Jul 18 2005, 12:34 PM)
I served over there

My respect for you just bumped up ten notches! Much love and respect, and thanks for your service! Glad you made it there and back safely, and glad to have you here posting your thoughts!
BMIC
QUOTE (SMan @ Jul 19 2005, 10:39 AM)
My first step would be to stop befriending nations that hide terrorists, no matter how much it hurts economically <cough>Saudi Arabia <cough> or impacts our hunt for Bin Laden <cough>Pakistan<cough>.

That would definitely be a good start!
tattoomeb
Since we are already involved in the Iraq conflict it would be immoral to just pull out. Therefore we have no option but to make the best of it and do the best we can for the Iraqi people. What we must do is try to appeal to other nations to get involved not with the conflict but with the rebuilding and training of Iraqi forces. If this means sending Iraqi battalions to other countries to be trained so be it. It is imperative that they take over our position as defenders of their lands.

Along with this we must reposition as many troops as possible around the Iraqi border to prevent further infiltration by foreign fighters. This is also the first place that we should begin replacing our troops with Iraqi fighters. Stopping jihadists from crossing the border is a simpler task than urban combat and will make it easier for our troops to concentrate on the insurgents inside Iraq.

While doing this, and after first assuring the world and Iraqis we will not set up permanent bases in Iraq, we must increase our troop level within Iraq. This will not be an easy task. It will mean less rotation for our troops and longer stays of active duty. But in the long run it is the only way to be assured we can quickly achieve the desired outcome. Once we have a sufficient level of man power we must begin the difficult task of squashing the insurgents for good.

We should begin to attack the insurgents where they are most prevalent. These missions must be swift and give little warning to the insurgents. These missions must also contain units of the most skillfully trained Iraqis that are available. This will help to insure a maximum amount of cooperation of the citizens. Once a town is deemed cleared a small platoon of US soldiers will stay to run coordinated efforts between us and the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police and security forces must be able to hold the towns with our only helping to coordinate movements and show proper leadership skills.

Any foreign fighters caught must be sentenced by an Iraqi court or returned to their homeland. This would be the sole decision of the Iraqi government. As must be the decision of what to do with prisoners that are Iraqi citizens.

Once the country starts to stabilize we can begin to slowly leak our troops out over time. It will be a long haul. There will be very trying times and many casualties militarily and civilian.

As our forces start to leave and the Iraqis take over they must be made aware it will be up to them to continue in the right direction. It will be the governments responsibility to avoid civil war and other conflicts. During the forming of the Iraqi constitution every piece of Iraq must play an equal part. All denominations must have an equal say. Every effort must be made so no faction feels they are not represented.

The Iraqis must also not be made to feel like we are abandoning them by leaving. Every troop withdraw should be coordinated with the Iraqi government. This way it is like them asking us to leave. If they feel safe and secure enough for us to begin a pull out it will be their decision. This will help to ensure that they feel their own troops and security can contain the situations they face and if they fail it will not be because we abandoned them.

Politically we must make every effort to ensure that any rebuilding done in Iraq is done by qualified Iraqis. And that their economy is strengthened in any way we can provide assistance. We need to get them involved in OPEC. They must have a proper number of UN seats. We should set up trade agreements so we can freely enjoy each others national products.

Any rebuilding that can be done by Iraqi construction companies should be done by them. All contractors helping with the rebuilding effort should have to hire Iraqis for any position they can fill. The whole rebuilding process should be done fairly through bids that should be awarded by the Iraqi government. This would help to ensure the Iraqis got as many contracts as possible.

The restoration of updated electricity, water and sewer supplies should be the priority of the rebuild. This will help to ensure the moral and general well being of the people. If we want the citizens of Iraq to cooperate with us it is only fair we afford them the comforts we would expect.

The greatest boost to the Iraqi economy will be their oil supply. This will give them the money to build proper infrastructure for roads, hospitals, police and fire stations and schools. It will also afford them the money to be able to give these people the proper equipment for the job. The US is the biggest importer in the world. By setting up trade with the Iraqis and making their products available here we will help the citizens of Iraq provide for themselves. We will also be able to better the lives of the Iraqi people by making our products available to them.

All this will take years to accomplish. But by admitting we have a problem and sending in more support for the Iraqis and our troops now it will speed up the rate at which we will be able to withdraw later.

I do not support this conflict. But we owe it to ourselves and the Iraqis to do the right thing and finish the job. Once we have secured the country all we can do is hope that the new government will step up and lead in a unbiased fashion for the benefit of all Iraqis.
tattoomeb
Once our troops begin withdraw from Iraq it will be time to do what should have been done from the start. Secure our Homeland Borders. This would include the Mexican and Canadian borders as well as our water ways. We should also include any cargo coming in to the US in this category as well. Following stronger borders is the issue of stopping global terrorism on a whole.

With our troops coming home from Iraq they can be an added resource in securing both borders and the waterways at least temporarily. Until we can hire and properly train new border patrol agents some of our troops can fill the gap we now have. These troops can be instrumental in the training of new agents. With their new found experiences in Iraq they will already have an understanding of what needs to be looked for and the possible problems associated with enforcement. Just as with Iraq as new agents are trained and goals are reached our troops can leave this duty to the agents.

Our neighbors must also be called upon to help with this effort from their sides of the border. Failure to help control their borders and citizens would have to be punished. This could be done by trade taxes with that nation to fund the extra work we will have to do for extra protection. Or by slowing the rate at which the countries citizens are allowed free travel to the US. Possibly by even not allowing work visas or the ability of that countries citizens to relocate to the US.

Our troops can also assist the Coast Guard in the same way to secure waterways. Along with waterways is the problem of unchecked cargo being brought in daily through these waterways. I believe we should have the man power to at least make sure everyone of these containers is at least opened and peaked inside of. While this is taking place every container should be examined by bomb sniffing dogs as well as radioactive detection devices. To a small degree some of this already takes place. But every effort needs to be made in the development of new detection devices to aid in the uncovering of radioactive material. By peaking into each container we also lower the risk of human smuggling.

This will slow the rate of transfer of goods. But this is a necessary check that must be made to ensure the safety of the American people. Just as we have longer lines at the airport to ensure our safety waits must be tolerated.

Along with stopping people from coming in illegally we must do something about those already here. I would propose a three to six month time period to grant illegal aliens the time necessary to make travel arrangements back to their country of origin, or to contact immigration to make arrangements for transportation. Once the time period ends anyone caught here illegal will be fingerprinted a DNA sample taken and shipped back where they came from. These names would be kept in a database and they would lose the opportunity to become a citizen or even visit after a specified number of violations.


All that I have mentioned would greatly decrease the possibility of a terrorist attack occurring on US soil. Unfortunately there is no 100% solution. We will always be at least moderately at risk.

As far a global terrorism is concerned every country must be to a great degree self sufficient in their own means of protection. Since no one can 100% secure their borders enough to stop terrorism all together we must act on a united front to stop extremists before they strike. The most sufficient means is intelligence. The next is government support from all leaders.

Since we cannot count on all countries to do everything they can to stop terrorism or share their intelligence the civilized world must stay extra vigilant. Unfortunately the countries who would be most likely to have intelligence about attacks are the least likely to share that information. Further complicating the situation are the double standards that some countries have with these problem nations.

Syria, Iran, Saudia Arabia, Pakistan and a host of others all pose a threat. However being that the governments do not outwardly share the views of some of its citizens makes it difficult to only attack the problem. It would be unethical to attack a nation over the views and threats of only some of its people(some countries probably closer to a majority of its people).

What the civilized world must do is work to change some of the perceptions these extremists hold. This will be very difficult if not impossible to do. But by forcing these problem nations to face their human rights violations and freezing the assets of ones funding terrorism we can try to force a change. The human rights violations are a big thing. Confronting these issues would make the people of these countries see some good to the world and maybe change some views.

It is hard to say all we can do is sit and wait for an attack to occur. But without breaking global moral laws and invading problem nations one at a time all we can do is be vigilant and better our intelligence. No nation would condone the taking over of the Middle East one nation at a time until they are all under control. Invading a country whos government has not or is not threatening is a dangerous president. We cannot take on the world by ourselves. Therefore we must trust other nations to aide in the global fight against terrorism as well as our own resources to keep us safe.
BMIC
Gee, your plan sounds almost exactly like Bush's. wink.gif

Only you probably haven't heard him describe it as much detail because it probably wouldn't be prudent to give out so much detail openly. dry.gif

Maybe you should have told us what you'd do DIFFERENTLY from what Bush already is planning to do.
tattoomeb
QUOTE
Maybe you should have told us what you'd do DIFFERENTLY from what Bush already is planning to do.


My plan would have been not to go to Iraq in the first place.

Since we are there it leaves few options. Bush is against more troops and is not sending Iraqi troops else where to be trained. This is slowing down the process greatly. The damage is done we can NOT back out on the Iraqi people. We need to do everything possible to speed the effort. Bush can't even admit they need to take extra steps because what they are doing is not working as intended because of lack of man power. I also believe that just having a different administration in power one that has not proven to be corrupt like the current one will make it easier for us to get aide from other countrys.
BMIC
QUOTE (tattoomeb @ Jul 20 2005, 06:58 AM)
My plan would have been not to go to Iraq in the first place.

Which of course would not have worked. It was inevitable. It just would've taken the really "slow" people like you a little longer to recognize the need.

Change for change's sake? Sorry, you'll have to do better than that.
tattoomeb
QUOTE
Which of course would not have worked. It was inevitable. It just would've taken the really "slow" people like you a little longer to recognize the need.

Change for change's sake? Sorry, you'll have to do better than that.


Keep on believing that.

Change for a better outcome. The current path is not producing the desired results.
tattoomeb
I came across the following this afternoon. It is very intresting and I thought it worth the share but is kind of long. I wish it went a little more indepth on the rebuilding aspect and restoration of water, sewer, and electricity.

http://www.comw.org/pda/0507bm34.html

QUOTE
Executive Summary
The key to enabling total US troop withdrawal from Iraq within 400 days is achieving a political accord with Sunni leaders at all levels and with Iraq's neighbors - especially Syria and Iran. The proximal aim would be to immediately lower the level of conflict inside Iraq by constricting both active and passive support for the insurgency, inside and outside the country. This would allow the United States to shift resources to the training mission and to adopt other de-escalatory measures - most importantly: a withdrawal time line. The strategic price of this diplomatic initiative would be a return to self-governance in Sunni areas, a guaranteed level of representation for these areas in the national assembly, an end to broad-brush measures of de-Baathification, an amnesty for most indigenous insurgents and for most former Baathists, and a de-escalation of the US confrontation with Syria and Iran regarding a range of issues.

In conjunction with these diplomatic initiatives, the United States would announce a tentative time line for withdrawal of its troops from Iraq -- associated with training milestones. Also: US forces would end major offensive sweeps inside the country, adopt a defensive posture, and shift the emphasis of their activity to training Iraqi security forces. Finally: the Iraqi government would re-activate portions of the old army -- partly as a confidence-building measure, but also in order to (i) rob insurgent organizations of their recruiting base, (ii) augment the power of the new Iraqi security forces, and (iii) produce a better ethnic balance in the new forces (which are currently dominated by Kurds and Shiites). As new forces increase in capacity, US forces would be removed, further reducing a stimulus of insurgent action.

Four hundred days - 57 weeks - is sufficient time to complete several Iraqi training cycles, including field exercises for many units at the battalion and brigade levels. Some division level training also can occur. Given sufficient resources (24,000 training personnel), 100,000 Iraqi security personnel can receive remedial training and another 80,000 new personnel can be trained and exercised during this period. Together with the full provision of all appropriate equipment, this development effort can yield Iraqi security forces that are several times more capable than those it controls in mid-2005.

After thirteen months, the only foreign military assets remaining in Iraq would be a small monitoring and training mission with a security detail: less than 10,000 foreign civilian and military personnel in all. US troops should constitute no more than one-third of the military component -- that is, approximately 2,000 troops. This mission should be conducted under a three-year UN mandate and joint NATO-international command. In addition, the United States might maintain a 25,000-person rapid reaction task force in the region, but outside either Iraq or Saudi Arabia.

1. Introduction: to break the vicious circle
Since the January 2005 elections in Iraq, proposals to accelerate US military withdrawal from the country have been gaining increased interest in the United States.1 This, for several reasons:

First, because the financial and human costs of the conflict continue to mount with no sure end in sight;


Second, because the global and regional impact of the American effort in Iraq seems, on balance, to have turned negative.

More Americans than a year ago see the Iraq occupation and military operations to be alienating America's friends, fueling anti-American sentiments worldwide, and feeding the growth of terrorism and extremism. At the same time, the Iraqi experience no longer seems an attractive example of the benefits of democratization. Instead, it has come to associate the prospect of transition with a host of negatives: protracted foreign occupation, ineffectual governance, economic stagnation, criminal chaos, ethnic-based politics, and social strife.

A third reason for interest in troop withdrawal is that the Iraqi insurgency increasingly seems to be intractable - and the fight against it has come to overshadow all other American goals in Iraq.2


A fourth impetus to withdrawal is the growing suspicion among Americans that US military activity in Iraq has become counter-productive.

Common to a number of the recent congressional proposals for US withdrawal is the notion that the US military presence and operations in Iraq are fueling anti-occupation and anti-government sentiments -- to the benefit of the insurgency. Thus, proponents of withdrawal contend that the removal of US troops -- indeed, the announcement and initiation of a withdrawal process -- will serve to significantly deflate the insurgency.

Clearly, the feasibility of withdrawal hinges on the nature of the insurgency. Specifically, it hinges on the extent to which the insurgency reflects a diffuse nationalistic reaction to foreign occupation. The Bush administration and the Pentagon have insisted instead that the insurgency is mostly the work of former regime leaders (that is, Baath restorationists), foreign Islamic extremists, and criminal elements. Most proponents of withdrawal do not deny that such actors play an important role in the insurgency. The pivotal question is: How much of the insurgency's strength is attributable to diehards and incorrigibles and how much reflects a broad but tractable nationalist reaction to the American military presence?

If much of the insurgents' freedom of action depends on popular support (including the cooperation or acquiescence of local tribal groups and Mosque leaders), then a process of US withdrawal might be key to undercutting the insurgency's strength and rolling it back to a level that indigenous security forces can manage.

Indeed, the available empirical evidence indicates that the breadth and persistence of the insurgency depends substantially on popular disaffection with the occupation and its practices.3 The insurgency has grown in tandem with anti-occupation sentiment among the Iraqi public, as measured by opinion surveys.4 Large majorities in both the Sunni and Shiite communities oppose the occupation and want to see it end within a year or so. Indeed, the proportion of Iraqis who countenance anti-coalition violence, although a minority, is disconcertingly large. (In Sunni areas, it is a majority.) Poll results, as well as numerous journalist interviews with insurgents, tend to support the contention that US withdrawal would reduce the insurgency's support base as well as its ranks, leaving the "diehard" elements more isolated and vulnerable.5

A reasonable hypothesis is that as much as 75 percent of insurgent activity depends significantly on high levels of popular opposition to foreign occupation and military activities. Relevant to this is the fact that the initial level of insurgent activity was less than 25 percent of the level in June 2005, as measured in terms of attacks per month: that is, less than 400 attacks per month circa June 2003 versus more than 1800 per month circa June 2005.6

The first surge in the level of attacks followed the initial efforts of the coalition to extend its military control to the local level throughout Iraq, which occurred during June and July 2003. Following almost every major coalition offensive, insurgent activity has climbed to and then sustained a higher level. (An exception is the spike in attacks that accompanied the 2005 election period, which was followed by an ebb before attacks returned to late 2004 levels.)

None of the coalition's successes in killing or capturing foreign terrorist leaders or former regime members have dented the insurgency. Those neutralized without apparent effect include Saddam Hussein, his sons, Sabawi Ibrahim al-Hassan (purported to be a key financier of the insurgency), dozens of other former leading Baathists, and several high-ranking associates of terrorist leader Abu Musab Zarqawi. During the past two years, thousands of insurgents have been reported killed and many thousands more Iraqis have been imprisoned and interrogated. And yet the insurgency has not only persisted, but grown. In other words: American success at the tactical level, which is undeniable, has not led to progress at the campaign or strategic levels. Indeed, military operations seem to be having a negative effect, on balance. This tends to disconfirm the Bush administration and Pentagon view that the insurgency is narrowly based.

2. Withdrawal is not enough: how most disengagement proposals fall short
The congressional proponents of a near-term US exit do not contend that troop withdrawal will entirely defuse the insurgency or that the dampening effects of withdrawal will be immediate. They recognize that Iraq's security problems and vulnerabilities will persist at some level for some time. And none are willing to simply abandon Iraq to its fate. For these reasons, withdrawal proponents suggest a variety of complementary measures to enhance Iraq's security. Notable among these are proposals (1) to increase the emphasis on developing Iraq's indigenous security forces, (2) to organize the deployment of international forces to supplant US ones, and/or, (3) to forge a non-interference regime among Iraq's neighbors.

Most strategies of withdrawal envisage a two-phase process in which troop withdrawal serves to substantially defuse the insurgency while assistance to indigenous security forces improves their capacity to manage residual security problems. Realistically, the near-term aim is to achieve a favorable balance of capabilities, insurgent versus government, at a significantly lower level of violence than today. Implicit in this, however, is a serious dilemma: in the best of circumstances, US forces would be hard pressed to simultaneously begin withdrawal and shift substantial assets to training and assistance efforts. Any lag in the positive de-escalation effects of withdrawal would worsen the dilemma. For some proponents of withdrawal, the arrival of international forces - who are presumed to be less provocative - is supposed to mitigate this dilemma.

It would be a mistake to pin the hopes for US withdrawal on the early arrival of international forces, however. Neither the United Nations, nor any alliance of nations, nor any individual nation (other the United States and Great Britain) has shown much interest in deploying substantial numbers of troops to Iraq - not, at least, while the security challenges remain as acute as they are today. International forces can and may play a key role - once the security situation has improved. But this option should not be viewed as a solution to the near-term withdrawal dilemma facing US forces.

A more serious problem concerns the expected level of "residual strife" - that is: violence and insurgent activity that is not driven by foreign military occupation and that is likely to persist whether or not US troops withdraw. Although US withdrawal would likely leave former regime diehards and foreign terrorists more isolated and vulnerable than they are today, the Iraq conflict has assumed an inter-communal character, rooted in a competition for power among ethno-religious groups. This competition and conflict has a popular foundation and will not simply end should the US withdraw or promise to withdraw.

Although discontent runs high in both the Sunni and Shiite communities, and both Sunni and Shiite groups have engaged in insurgent activity, the insurgency has become since September 2004 a largely Sunni phenomena. (It was in late summer 2004 that Moqtada Sadr and his Mahdi Army, the largest Shiite insurgent group, stood down and agreed to support the political process - at least temporarily.) Moreover, since mid-2004, some insurgent groups have taken a distinctly anti-Shiite turn, following a path outlined by Abu Musab Zarqawi in a 10 February 2004 communiqué.

The alienation of much of the Sunni community from the postwar transition process has been uniquely acute. This problem has grown much worse than it had to be. It is rooted in a series of ill-conceived steps by the Coalition Provisional Authority and by appointed Iraqi leaders, culminating in the formation of an Iraqi parliament and government dominated by Shiites and Kurds. Moreover, the new Iraqi army, which is supposed to take the place of coalition troops, is comprised mostly of Kurds and Shiites. Having thus taken on an ethnic hue, the confrontation between the insurgents and the Iraqi government could transmute into large-scale communal conflict should US troops withdraw precipitously. This possibility has not been adequately addressed by current exit strategies. Attending to it requires new political initiatives that redress some of the key Sunni concerns and draws Sunni leaders at all levels more fully into the transition process.

3. How the occupation went wrong
Progress toward a stable peace in Iraq and the withdrawal of US troops begins with the recognition that America's postwar troubles there are substantially self-inflicted. The goals of the Iraq mission as they have evolved are unnecessarily ambitious, impractical, and intrusive; they reach beyond what the United States must or can do to advance its security, that of the region, or that of the Iraqi people. The first step out of the present imbroglio is to define a practicable set of goals that might win greater support both inside Iraq and internationally. Once done, this could illuminate an acceptable way to end the occupation within 13 or so months.

Americans were deeply divided regarding the decision to go to war, while most of the rest of the world strongly opposed it. However, once the war and removal of the Hussein regime were accomplished facts, it should have been possible to formulate a more consensual set of objectives for the postwar period. The postwar mission might have limited itself to the following objectives:

Meet immediate humanitarian needs, restore social order, and repair the damage caused by war and sanctions;


Limit future Iraqi military potentials while supporting capacities for self-defense;


Bring to justice those most responsible for Iraq's violations of international law and human rights;


Set Iraq on the institutional path of representative government, rule of law, respect for human rights, and civilian control of the military; and,


Reduce and contain postwar potentials for civil strife and state fragmentation.

Notably, while some of these objectives (such as reconstruction) might have implied an engagement lasting three or more years, most of them would not have required a military occupation. Indeed, only the restoration of social order and containment of civil strife might have required a military occupation lasting a year or more.

Other objectives -- such as those related to government reform -- could have aimed for something less than absolute assurance of an ideal outcome. Thus: rather than pegging the occupation to the establishment of a resilient democratic order, the United States could have aimed more modestly to set Iraq on an institutional path toward that outcome -- recognizing that long- term adherence to this path could not be guaranteed except by means fundamentally at odds with national sovereignty. At any rate, once a democratic foundation had been created, its further development could have been nurtured by non-military means.

The goals and guidelines enunciated above may not differ much from what most Americans who were supportive of the war would have hoped to accomplish in Iraq. But they do represent a radical departure from the declared and de facto aims of the Bush administration. Beyond or in contradistinction to the approach outlined above, the administration has sought:

To substantially determine the future balance among political parties and ideologies inside Iraq, with the aim of diminishing the role of both Arab nationalism and political Islam;


To reconstitute Iraq's economy in strict accord with neo-liberal ideology -- that is: notions of weak government, comprehensive privatization, unrestricted trade, and de-regulated markets; and


To establish the country as a reliable US ally, friendly to US interests, and as a base for US initiatives and operations in the region.

The problem with these goals is that they intrude too far on the prerogatives of the Iraqi people, making the mission an enemy of too many Iraqis and an affront to too many more. The administration's drive to reinvent Iraq led to a series of specific policy blunders that fed the insurgency and provided the rebels with a resonant base of popular disaffection. Notable among these blunders were:

The wholesale demobilization of the Iraqi army and police forces;


The precipitous dismissal of tens of thousands of Iraqi civil servants; and


Broad-brush sanctions against tens of thousands of former lower-level Baath Party members.

In addition, some aspects of the administration's approach unnecessarily stoked regional opposition to the US mission. In the administration's vision, Iraq was meant to serve not only as an example for its neighbors, but also as a staging area for a program of coercive transformation affecting both the external behavior and internal constitution of Arab and Muslim states. However, casting the postwar Iraq mission as a stepping stone in a explicit program of confrontation with Syria and Iran (among others) only solidified and intensified their opposition to it. Thus, both internal to Iraq and regionally, the Administration pursued policies bound to generate more friction than necessary.

Finally, the administration's chosen strategy for supplanting Hussein exacerbated the potentials for communal conflict in Iraq, which are now manifest. Operation Iraqi Freedom has had a de facto ethnic slant since its inception, favoring Kurdish and Shiite leaders and organizations. This was apparent in the recent election process, which simply steam rolled Sunni concerns and produced a government overwhelmingly dominated by Shiites and Kurds. It also was evident in earlier governing arrangements, which under-represented indigenous Sunni leaders and grassroots organizations.

These developments were not the necessary concomitant of dislodging the Hussein clique and bringing it to justice. Even though Hussein favored some Sunni tribes, and Sunnis predominated in the upper ranks of the Baath party, almost all Sunnis -- and, indeed, a large majority of former Baathists -- could and should have been co-opted. Instead, they were driven out by broad-brush de-Baathification and large-scale army and civil service dismissals, mentioned above.

The ethnic turn-about in Iraq does not reflect any essential preference for Kurds or Shiites on the part of the Bush administration, however. Instead, it reflects strategic and tactical considerations. The chief one was the administration's incapacity to control the postwar situation without the cooperation of the Kurds and the acquiescence of the Shiite leadership. In order to pursue its overweening goals in postwar Iraq, the administration had to carry forward and leverage the nation's ethnic divisions -- just as it had in Afghanistan.

In sum: overly ambitious and intrusive objectives and the needless multiplication of enemies have bedeviled the postwar mission from its inception. Had the Bush administration sought to accomplish less, it would have achieved more -- and at much lower cost to the United States and Iraq. This is not solely a lesson for the future. Recognizing it today can help open a path out of Iraq.

4. A strategy for resolving the Iraq impasse: essential elements
Foreign military occupation inadvertently creates a base of popular support for insurgent activity in Iraq. The coercive practices of the occupation and their collateral effects also help feed a cycle of revenge. These circumstances undermine the prospects for stability, reconstruction, and effective democratic governance. This argues for beginning a process of US troop withdrawal, while increasing efforts to build and strengthen indigenous security forces.

On the other hand, the palliative effects of withdrawal will not be immediate - nor will they be complete, for two reasons: First, some elements of the insurgency seek much more than the withdrawal of US troops. Diehard Baath restorationists and foreign extremists will fight on, each seeking through violence to impose their vision on Iraq. Second, the Iraqi conflict has partially assumed an inter-communal character - Sunni versus Shiite - that US withdrawal would not extinguish. Indeed, the opposite reaction is a distinct possibility.

The key to enabling a withdrawal process and getting Iraqi reconstruction back on track is striking a deal with leaders of the Sunni community and with Iraq's neighbors. Its aim would be to immediately constrict insurgent activity and isolate the foreign and diehard elements. The resulting near-term de-escalation would enable the coalition to shift resources to the training mission, while also beginning a process of troop withdrawal - which should further erode popular support for insurgent activity.

The essential elements of this strategy are:

The military occupation and operations

The United States should declare that it seeks no long-term military position in Iraq and is disinclined to establish one, even if asked. Moreover, the United States should declare that it aims to withdraw in discernible steps all but a handful of its Iraq-deployed troops by no later than 1 September 2006. An initial modest step of withdrawal -- 15,000 troops -- should occur immediately. Within six months, the United States should aim to reduce its military presence in Iraq to less than 100,000 troops. In the meantime, the Multinational Force and the Iraqi government should adopt a defensive posture and temporarily suspend large-scale offensive action against insurgent strongholds, while pursuing a political resolution to the Iraq conflict.

Political measures meant to draw in disaffected communities

Blanket sanctions against former members of the Baath Party should be ended -- excepting those individuals charged with criminal activity. Likewise, sanctions prohibiting selected militia members and leaders from holding public office should be lifted -- except with regard to individuals indicted for criminal activity.


Punitive action should be focused on those most responsible for the crimes of the Hussein regime and on those responsible for major postwar attacks on civilians -- a set defined to involve several hundred, but not thousands of individuals. Beyond this, a general amnesty should be offered to former regime elements and to insurgents. In the case of influential leaders, this amnesty should imply a quid pro quo of cooperation in advancing the peacemaking and stabilization process.


Foreign military control of localities must end. Local political authority must devolve to local government bodies and these must be elected locally without the interference of federal or coalition authorities. Exclusions from political office should be restricted only to those individuals found guilty of crimes that carry this sanction.


On the federal level, Iraq needs to adopt a system of representative government that better addresses the concerns of minority communities regarding majority domination -- and do so in way that does not add impetus to state fragmentation.

(i) A first step would be to tie all or most assembly seats to local districts -- as is the case in the United States -- and to require that all prospective candidates live in the areas they hope to represent. The current system makes the power of localities contingent on voter turnout. Contingent representation is something that rightfully concerns minority communities.
(ii) As a further confidence-building measure, a portion of assembly seats might be divided equally among the three main confessional and ethnic communities in Iraq and then distributed to their majority provinces according to population -- in effect, making some provinces somewhat "more equal" then others (much as Mississippi is "more equal" than New York in the United States).
(iii) Alternatively (or in addition): Each of the three members of the Presidency Council might be directly elected by different regions of the country, corresponding roughly to the distribution of ethnic groups.
Municipal police forces in all areas should be recruited locally and there should be local accountability mechanisms -- ie. local civilian review boards. Other security forces that regularly patrol localities should have a strong representation of the ethno-religious group they are supposed to patrol. This requires a concerted effort to significantly increase the representation of Sunni Arabs in Iraq's security forces. Practically speaking, this means re-mobilizing portions of the former Iraqi army, as outlined in the next section.

Taken together, these political measures should relax much of the overt rejectionist sentiment in the Sunni community.

Iraqi security force development

The Coalition needs to dedicate 24,000 personnel to the task of training and exercising Iraqi security personnel during the next 14 months -- not 8,000-10,000 as currently planned. And it needs to ensure that Iraqi units are fully equipped with upgraded equipment and adequate facilities.

This level of commitment should permit an increase in security and police forces to the level of 250,000 by September 2006 with more than half of them equaling the quality of the best 30,000 today. This should put in the hands of the Iraqi government a security force that, in qualitative terms, is several times as capable as the one it controls today.


The Iraqi government and the coalition need to redouble their efforts to draw former Hussein-era military personnel into training and reorientation programs -- and this should now include the many thousands of influential personnel with former ranks of colonel and above. Where feasible, entire units of the former Iraqi army should be reconstituted -- including units of the Republican Guard. Even if many of these are initially assigned reserve responsibilities, re-mobilizing them would draw them into a positive process and make them more readily available for screened recruitment into the active forces.

Monitoring of Iraqi military potentials

Until Iraq stabilizes and settles into a pattern of peaceful relations with its neighbors, the United States and others will continue to be concerned about its military potentials and will want some reassurance. However, as an alternative to a long-term large-scale military presence in the country, the United States should favor the development of a Military Monitoring Regime under UN auspices. This would require the Iraqi government to forswear weapons of mass destruction and support for terrorist activity, agree to limit the size and capabilities of Iraq's armed forces, and permit unfettered access to its military sites by a multinational corps of UN monitors. A reasonable term for the monitoring regime would be five years or less, as the Security Council sees fit. A highly effective monitoring corps might comprise 1,500 personnel and could be accompanied by a multinational security detail comprising 6,500 troops.

Regional confidence- and security-building measures

The last component of this proposal focuses on creating a regional environment more conducive to Iraqi stability. A Group of Contact States should be formed under UN auspices, comprising all of Iraq's neighbors as well as those states participating in the multi-national force. This group would function as a forum for discussing and addressing security concerns related to postwar Iraq. The explicit basis for the group would be an understanding that:

(i) All members have legitimate security concerns regarding the future of Iraq;
(ii) Participants in the multinational force and training mission will not use Iraq as a base for military operations outside of Iraq or outside the scope of the UN mandated mission;
(iii) None will seek a permanent military position inside the country apart from standard training missions, military assistance programs, or military-diplomatic missions; and
(iv) All members will pledge not to impede the stabilization process, but instead to do their utmost to advance it.
Withdrawal time line; residual forces

The measures outlined above should allow within six months a reduction in US forces in Iraq to 95,000. Pegged to cycles in the training of Iraqi forces, subsequent reductions would bring US forces down to 70,000 troops in Month Nine and down to 40,000 troops in Month Twelve. By 14 months, there would be only 2,000-3,000 US troops left in Iraq to participate in multinational military training and monitoring missions, commanded by NATO and under a three-year UN mandate. Outside Iraq, but very nearby, the United States might continue to maintain for the foreseeable future 25,000 ground troops and the equivalent of one tactical air wing -- as well as capacities for rapid force expansion. Among other purposes, these forces might serve in a rapid reaction role, should they be needed.

5. Conclusion
By necessity, the proposed strategy for resolving the Iraq impasse is both conditional and contingent - as are all strategies. Whatever we choose to do in Iraq, we cannot be certain of the eventual outcome - especially not the long-term outcome. We can set the country on a new path, but we cannot be sure that it will stay on that path. Of course, uncertainty about the future -- an existential condition -- does not itself constitute a good reason for continuing to occupy Iraq. Otherwise, we would never leave. But the United States can take comfort in this: military occupation is not the sole policy instrument at its disposal; it is only the most extreme and costly one. The end of the Iraq occupation will not be the end of America's capacity to influence the Iraqi prospect by either military or non-military means.
BMIC
For those who claim there are no WMD in Iraq - how about this possible biowarfare agent? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8791596/

"Military doctors are fighting to contain an outbreak of a potentially deadly drug-resistant bacteria that apparently originated in the Iraqi soil."

Okay, so they haven't yet idenitified it as an Iraqi WMD. But would we even recognize one if we ran across it? Who's to say this isn't one straight out of Saddam's arsenal?
tattoomeb
QUOTE
Don't be the last one left supporting a loser. You may not get another chance.


They will put a good spin on it so he doesn't look like a loser. Bush will be the great victor that got the job done and brought the troops home. Sure some people will see it for what it is as we will. But there will always be a certain base that just will not get it.
BMIC
If only a few people see it your way, you've got to question the accuracy of your perceptions.
cfulmor
Hrm, I saw no admission of "wrong" in B's post.

Another liberal twisting words to fit his/her "perception"
cfulmor
Ok, Liberal, panic ridden folks, explain to me where this idiot is coming from:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/...n.ap/index.html
SMan
Somebody tell this fool they need to start producing a lot more oil than they do now before we consider invading Venezuela.
BMIC
QUOTE (Idiot @ Aug 9 2005, 09:35 AM)
Maybe Chavez is a little paranoid because the US government participated in a coup attempt against him recently.

Just because everybody's out to get you doesn't mean you're not still being paranoid. Or is it the other way around? You two wouldn't happen to be related, would you? laugh.gif
tattoomeb
QUOTE
August 10th, 2005 4:35 pm
Iraqi: Iran Smuggling Reports Exaggerated


Associated Press

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq's interior minister said Wednesday that reports of deadly roadside bombs being smuggled into this country from Iran are exaggerated.

On Tuesday, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said some insurgent weapons are entering Iraq from Iran although it's unclear whether they were coming from elements of the Iranian government or from other parties.

Interior Minister Bayan Jabr told reporters that Iraqi security forces recently opened fire on a group of men carrying boxes near the Iranian border. The men dropped the boxes and fled back into Iranian territory. Inside the boxes were dynamite sticks with some wires.

"This is all that happened at the border and was very much exaggerated," Jabr said.

Appearing before parliament, Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari dodged questions about the use of Iranian weapons by the insurgents. Al-Jaafari, who spent years in exile in Iran, referred questions to the interior and defense ministries.

Al-Jaafari was responding to a question by a Shiite Muslim legislator, Hussein al-Sadr, about U.S. allegations that weapons were coming in from Iran.

"Concerning me, I don't comment on reports especially if they are coming from abroad," al-Jaafari said. "It should not be that someone says something and we sit here and open a conversation about it. We have our own sources."


Not that you can really believe either one of them.
tattoomeb
QUOTE (Idiot @ Aug 11 2005, 12:23 PM)
QUOTE (tattoomeb @ Aug 11 2005, 07:41 AM)
Not that you can really believe either one of them.

That's very true but when one is saying one thing and the other is saying the opposite then one of them has to be telling the truth. The question is which one.

And the answer is, who knows? One is a low-life lying weasel, and the other is Iraqi. laugh.gif

But one thing is for sure, their bombs are getting bigger and better. If I had to guess I'd say that at least some of them are coming from Iran.

Very true I believe Iran has some involvement. But the Iraqis are getting a lot of practice and are bound to make some learning progress. I think Rummy is over playing his stance and the Iraqis are down playing theirs. Rummy can use it as an excuse for lack of progress and a growing death toll. The Iraqis can use there position to say it is not that bad GET OUT. Which is what I believe it may come to them just telling us to leave.
tattoomeb
QUOTE
Terror's Greatest Recruitment Tool
by Naomi Klein
 
Hussain Osman, one of the men alleged to have participated in London's failed bombings on July 21, recently told Italian investigators that they prepared for the attacks by watching "films on the war in Iraq," La Repubblica reported. "Especially those where women and children were being killed and exterminated by British and American soldiers...of widows, mothers and daughters that cry."

It has become an article of faith that Britain was vulnerable to terror because of its politically correct antiracism. Yet Osman's comments suggest that what propelled at least some of the bombers was rage at what they saw as extreme racism. And what else can we call the belief--so prevalent we barely notice it--that American and European lives are worth more than the lives of Arabs and Muslims, so much more that their deaths in Iraq are not even counted?

It's not the first time that this kind of raw inequality has bred extremism. Sayyid Qutb, the Egyptian writer generally viewed as the intellectual architect of radical political Islam, had his ideological epiphany while studying in the United States. The puritanical scholar was shocked by Colorado's licentious women, it's true, but more significant was Qutb's encounter with what he later described as America's "evil and fanatic racial discrimination." By coincidence, Qutb arrived in the United States in 1948, the year of the creation of the State of Israel. He witnessed an America blind to the thousands of Palestinians being made permanent refugees by the Zionist project. For Qutb, it wasn't politics, it was an assault on his identity: Clearly Americans believed that Arab lives were worth far less than those of European Jews. According to Yvonne Haddad, a professor of history at Georgetown University, this experience "left Qutb with a bitterness he was never able to shake."

When Qutb returned to Egypt he joined the Muslim Brotherhood, leading to his next life-changing event: He was arrested, severely tortured and convicted of antigovernment conspiracy in an absurd show trial. Qutb's political theory was profoundly shaped by torture. Not only did he regard his torturers as sub-human, he stretched that categorization to include the entire state that ordered this brutality, including the practicing Muslims who passively lent their support to Nasser's regime.

Qutb's vast category of subhumans allowed his disciples to justify the killing of "infidels"--now practically everyone--in the name of Islam. A movement for an Islamic state was transformed into a violent ideology that would lay the intellectual groundwork for Al Qaeda. In other words, so-called Islamist terrorism was "home grown" in the West long before the July 7 attacks--from its inception it was the quintessentially modern progeny of Colorado's casual racism and Cairo's concentration camps.

Why is it worth digging up this history now? Because the twin sparks that ignited Qutb's world-changing rage are currently being doused with gasoline: Arabs and Muslims are being debased in torture chambers around the world and their deaths are being discounted in simultaneous colonial wars, at the same time that graphic digital evidence of these losses and humiliations is available to anyone with a computer. And once again, this lethal cocktail of racism and torture is burning through the veins of angry young men. As Qutb's past and Osman's present reveal, it's not our tolerance for multiculturalism that fuels terrorism; it's our tolerance for the barbarism committed in our name.

Into this explosive environment has stepped Tony Blair, determined to sell two of the main causes of terror as its cure. He intends to deport more Muslims to countries where they will likely face torture. And he will keep fighting wars in which soldiers don't know the names of the towns they are leveling. (According to an August 5 Knight Ridder report, a Marine sergeant in Iraq recently pumped up his squad by telling them that "these will be the good old days, when you brought...death and destruction to--what the fuck is this place called?" Someone piped in helpfully, "Haqlaniyah.")

Meanwhile, in Britain, there is no shortage of the "evil and fanatic racial discrimination" that Qutb denounced. "Of course too there have been isolated and unacceptable acts of a racial or religious hatred," Blair said before unveiling his terror-fighting plan. "But they have been isolated." Isolated? The Islamic Human Rights Commission received 320 complaints of racist attacks in the wake of the bombings; the Monitoring Group has received eighty-three emergency calls; Scotland Yard says hate crimes are up 600 percent from this time last year. Not that pre-July 7 was anything to brag about: "One in five of Britain's ethnic minority voters say that they considered leaving Britain because of racial intolerance," according to a Guardian poll in March.

This last statistic shows that the brand of multiculturalism practiced in Britain (and France, Germany, Canada...) has little to do with genuine equality. It is instead a Faustian bargain, struck between vote-seeking politicians and self-appointed community leaders, one that keeps ethnic minorities tucked away in state-funded peripheral ghettos while the centers of public life remain largely unaffected by the seismic shifts in the national ethnic makeup. Nothing exposes the shallowness of this alleged tolerance more than the speed with which Muslim communities are now being told to "get out" (to quote Tory MP Gerald Howarth) in the name of core national values.

The real problem is not too much multiculturalism but too little. If the diversity now ghettoized on the margins of Western societies--geographically and psychologically--were truly allowed to migrate to the centers, it might infuse public life in the West with a powerful new humanism. If we had deeply multi-ethnic societies, rather than shallow multicultural ones, it would be much more difficult for politicians to sign deportation orders sending Algerian asylum-seekers to torture, or to wage wars in which only the invaders' dead are counted. A society that truly lived its values of equality and human rights, at home and abroad, would have another benefit too. It would rob terrorists of what has always been their greatest recruitment tool: our racism.
tattoomeb
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5081300853.html

QUOTE
"What we expected to achieve was never realistic given the timetable or what unfolded on the ground," said a senior official involved in policy since the 2003 invasion. "We are in a process of absorbing the factors of the situation we're in and shedding the unreality that dominated at the beginning."

........................

"We set out to establish a democracy, but we're slowly realizing we will have some form of Islamic republic," said another U.S. official familiar with policymaking from the beginning, who like some others interviewed would speak candidly only on the condition of anonymity. "That process is being repeated all over."

U.S. officials now acknowledge that they misread the strength of the sentiment among Kurds and Shiites to create a special status. The Shiites' request this month for autonomy to be guaranteed in the constitution stunned the Bush administration, even after more than two years of intense intervention in Iraq's political process, they said.

"We didn't calculate the depths of feeling in both the Kurdish and Shiite communities for a winner-take-all attitude," said Judith S. Yaphe, a former CIA Iraq analyst at the National Defense University.

In the race to meet a sequence of fall deadlines, the process of forging national unity behind the constitution is largely being scrapped, current and former officials involved in the transition said.

"We are definitely cutting corners and lowering our ambitions in democracy building," said Larry Diamond, a Stanford University democracy expert who worked with the U.S. occupation government and wrote the book "Squandered Victory: The American Occupation and the Bungled Effort to Bring Democracy to Iraq."

"Under pressure to get a constitution done, they've lowered their own ambitions in terms of getting a document that is going to be very far-reaching and democratic. We also don't have the time to go through the process we envisioned when we wrote the interim constitution -- to build a democratic culture and consensus through debate over a permanent constitution," he said.

The goal now is to ensure a constitution that can be easily amended later so Iraq can grow into a democracy, U.S. officials say.
If Iraq turns into an Isalmic Republic George war will have really been for nothing. First it was 911 then there was no connection to 911. Then WMD's, nope aren't any of those either. Recently it is freedom for the Iraqi people. Their state of government probably will end up being no better than before the war.

QUOTE
These sentiments are reflected in the polls. When the war was a year old, in March 2004, about 65 percent of Americans were supporting the decision to wage it. But in the latest CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll, support has sagged to 44 percent. Meanwhile, 57 percent now say that the war has made the U.S. “less safe from terrorism” — a Gallup record high and a key finding because it undercuts a core Bush argument for launching the war in the first place.


Those numbers keep on dropping.

Speaking of numbers check out Haliburtons.
Haliburton
cfulmor
Refresh my memory please.

DIDN'T the POLLS have John Kerry defeating our President?

Just curious.
tattoomeb
QUOTE (cfulmor @ Aug 15 2005, 07:49 AM)
Refresh my memory please.

DIDN'T the POLLS have John Kerry defeating our President?

Just curious.

There were lots of conflicting polls in this and the last election if you remember. As close as the races where there were bound to be. Guess it won't be to much longer before all those loyal Georgists are mostly all gone.
cfulmor
I wish I had the link.

The president is losing support, I will give you that.

The base however is stable. I believe it will continue to be stable if not strengthen.

JMHO
tattoomeb
QUOTE
August 13th, 2005 7:51 pm
Bush raises option of using force against Iran


JERUSALEM (Reuters) - U.S. President Bush said on Israeli television he could consider using force as a last resort to press Iran to give up its nuclear programme.

"All options are on the table," Bush, speaking at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, said in the interview broadcast on Saturday.

Asked if that included the use of force, Bush replied: "As I say, all options are on the table. The use of force is the last option for any president and you know, we've used force in the recent past to secure our country."


Force in the recent past to secure our country, 57 percent of the population doesn't think so. The last option statement gave me a good laugh also.
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