As I travel around Washco and surrounding areas I see lots of new housing developments going in with (from my perspective) tremendously expensive houses going in. Off Monroe Road, near Sheetz off Rt. 40 and 66, behind Terry's Auto/AC&T in Boonsboro, across from Beaver Creek Country Club, etc. etc. Some of these houses are $800,000 and more.
I find myself wondering who the heck can afford to buy a house like that? Even with a 30 year mortgage at 5% that's $4300/mo for just P&I!!!! Add taxes and insurance and it's gotta be $5000/mo easy.
So who's got the bucks to buy houses like this? It sure ain't me!
Full Version: Expensive New Houses
Maybe the people buying those homes really can't afford it. Maybe they are actually buried in debt.
It's the "outsiders".
Seriously, it's not Washington Countians. What with all the warehouse jobs abounding here, you'd have to have both parents and their six kids employed contributing to the mortgage payment. You can't even find a decent starter home in the county that's under $200,000.
That which they are trying to escape from, they are bringing with them. They're commuting 1 or 2 hours to the metro areas of NOVA, DC and Baltimore.
And yes, they probably are in debt up to their eyeballs. I'd like to see inside these homes and see how much furniture they actually have.
Seriously, it's not Washington Countians. What with all the warehouse jobs abounding here, you'd have to have both parents and their six kids employed contributing to the mortgage payment. You can't even find a decent starter home in the county that's under $200,000.
That which they are trying to escape from, they are bringing with them. They're commuting 1 or 2 hours to the metro areas of NOVA, DC and Baltimore.
And yes, they probably are in debt up to their eyeballs. I'd like to see inside these homes and see how much furniture they actually have.
QUOTE (Heather @ Aug 4 2005, 10:35 AM)
Maybe the people buying those homes really can't afford it. Maybe they are actually buried in debt.
But I couldn't even qualify for the mortgage, let alone pay it! Ya gotta be making bucks to even qualify!
"It's the "outsiders".
Sounds like sour grapes to me!!! If these people can or can't afford these
houses who's business is it except theirs? Why does it bother you if someone drives an hour to work? are you footing their gas bills? if so next time i fill up can one of you meet me at AC&T? You think they only bring bad stuff with them when they move here. guess what else they bring?? TAX$$$$ so YOUR roads will be better. So YOUR kids will have better schools. I have been here 3 years and will always be an "OUTSIDER" because I will refuse to blame hagerstowns or Washco's
problems on "OUTSIDERS". Also have you noticed the people that move here aren't moving into the trailer park and waiting for a check every month? Seems like the people that are moving here are doing it for piece of mind not a piece of the welfare pie!! be glad that the people that are moving here happen to be buying nice expensive houses instead of trailers and shacks
Sounds like sour grapes to me!!! If these people can or can't afford these
houses who's business is it except theirs? Why does it bother you if someone drives an hour to work? are you footing their gas bills? if so next time i fill up can one of you meet me at AC&T? You think they only bring bad stuff with them when they move here. guess what else they bring?? TAX$$$$ so YOUR roads will be better. So YOUR kids will have better schools. I have been here 3 years and will always be an "OUTSIDER" because I will refuse to blame hagerstowns or Washco's
problems on "OUTSIDERS". Also have you noticed the people that move here aren't moving into the trailer park and waiting for a check every month? Seems like the people that are moving here are doing it for piece of mind not a piece of the welfare pie!! be glad that the people that are moving here happen to be buying nice expensive houses instead of trailers and shacks
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Aug 4 2005, 10:43 AM)
QUOTE (Heather @ Aug 4 2005, 10:35 AM)
Maybe the people buying those homes really can't afford it. Maybe they are actually buried in debt.
But I couldn't even qualify for the mortgage, let alone pay it! Ya gotta be making bucks to even qualify!
And let me guess thats the fault of outsiders???
Why hate on these people because they have some disposable income??
QUOTE (samy0 @ Aug 4 2005, 11:26 AM)
Why hate on these people because they have some disposable income??
I just find it annoying that these people move here to escape city life, but yet want all the city ammenities. The schools around here weren't all that bad, and neither were the roads before we had all these people move in. Now there are huge ugly houses where beautiful orchards used to be.
QUOTE (WVU-Mountaineers @ Aug 4 2005, 11:30 AM)
QUOTE (samy0 @ Aug 4 2005, 11:26 AM)
Why hate on these people because they have some disposable income??
I just find it annoying that these people move here to escape city life, but yet want all the city ammenities.
But how does that affect you? if someone moves here and wishes there was a Starbucks why would that piss anyone off? they aren't asking the county for $$$
to build one. When i moved here the only place you could get coffee was Sheetz or 7-11 now there are 10 coffee houses! And guess what hagerstown hasn't fallen into the sea! Nobody has turned to stone! and unbelieveable as this might seem some of the locals who were so pissed about the newbies wanting a Starbucks are standing in line at these places now! Who'd a thunk it?
As far as the roads go. I refuse to believe that these roads were pristine until all the noobs starting moving here. I do know that when they fix these roads the guy in the new house with the high property tax will be footing more of that bill than the single mom with 9 kids living in section 8 housing. Anyone who thinks Hagerstown (especially the city) was a garden paradise until new people starting moving here is delusional. When we use to drive through here in the 70's when I was a kid on the way to PA. the town was dirty uninviting and a place I couldn't wait to get to the other side of. I think hagerstown has improved greatly in the last 20-30 years and without a new influx of taxpayer dollars that wouldn't have happened
QUOTE (samy0 @ Aug 4 2005, 11:26 AM)
Why hate on these people because they have some disposable income??
Because they're not buying me things!
I'm an outsider too and I only live right across the river. They don't want to see my WV tags in their town.
QUOTE (Heather @ Aug 4 2005, 11:37 AM)
QUOTE (samy0 @ Aug 4 2005, 11:26 AM)
Why hate on these people because they have some disposable income??
Because they're not buying me things!
I'm an outsider too and I only live right across the river. They don't want to see my WV tags in their town.
I see its all about you
I still cannot wrap my little brain around the whole mentality. I bet our buddy
Roho is a staunch supporter of the "kill all the outsiders" stance. which is 1 more reason I dont want to understand
QUOTE (samy0 @ Aug 4 2005, 11:26 AM)
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Aug 4 2005, 10:43 AM)
QUOTE (Heather @ Aug 4 2005, 10:35 AM)
Maybe the people buying those homes really can't afford it. Maybe they are actually buried in debt.
But I couldn't even qualify for the mortgage, let alone pay it! Ya gotta be making bucks to even qualify!
And let me guess thats the fault of outsiders???
Why hate on these people because they have some disposable income??
Woah, Samyo, sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder. Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say I "hate" anyone. You did.
I am, however, curious who can afford these homes -- who's buying them. What must they do for a living to make that kinda dough? Where must they work? How do you qualify for that kinda job? Are those kinda jobs local -- why or why not? Where are those jobs? Etc. Is that okay with you?
Now, since you brought it up, I wonder, do their taxes really cover the costs associated with them? -- the new roads, impact on schools and other infrasturcture that you suggest they do.
And, whether it is trailers, small duplexes, or mansions, I do not want to see every acre around here developed into houses of any type -- to become Montgomery Co. West. It is sad to me to see houses and stuff built where I, not that awful long ago, hunted rabbits and other small game. Without any controls, or good controls, I fear we will lose our quality of life.
Yeah, it's the outsiders. They bring with them their pollution, their general rudeness, their need for big shopping centers, their behemoth gas guzzling suv's, the overcrowding of schools, traffic congestion, yada yada yada.
Yeah, they're bringing in the taxes. But with the increase in population comes the increase in everything bad, also. Increased population also means increases in taxes to pay for upgrading the infrastructure to handle the increased population.
Washington County was known for it's rural character. For it's clean air. For an excellent school system. For its uncongested roads. For its houses that local people could afford to purchase and keep up. The flight from the city is causing the locals problems. You used to be able to drive down any road in WashCo and folks would throw up their hand to you in a friendly wave. Now it's more likely that you'll get the finger thrown up to you.
Of course this isn't a new thing. When Mack Truck moved here in 1961, the locals were saying the same thing. But at least Mack Truck brought with it higher paying jobs. Jobs that the locals could work at.
I have no sour grapes. I have no desire to own or live in one of the McMansions. I have no desire to be in debt up to my eyeballs. I don't envy any of the families moving in to WashCo.
Yeah, these folks aren't moving into trailer parks, but perhaps they are causing the locals to move into trailer parks because they can no longer afford to keep their houses.
Why shouldn't the locals develop an attitude?
Yeah, they're bringing in the taxes. But with the increase in population comes the increase in everything bad, also. Increased population also means increases in taxes to pay for upgrading the infrastructure to handle the increased population.
Washington County was known for it's rural character. For it's clean air. For an excellent school system. For its uncongested roads. For its houses that local people could afford to purchase and keep up. The flight from the city is causing the locals problems. You used to be able to drive down any road in WashCo and folks would throw up their hand to you in a friendly wave. Now it's more likely that you'll get the finger thrown up to you.
Of course this isn't a new thing. When Mack Truck moved here in 1961, the locals were saying the same thing. But at least Mack Truck brought with it higher paying jobs. Jobs that the locals could work at.
I have no sour grapes. I have no desire to own or live in one of the McMansions. I have no desire to be in debt up to my eyeballs. I don't envy any of the families moving in to WashCo.
Yeah, these folks aren't moving into trailer parks, but perhaps they are causing the locals to move into trailer parks because they can no longer afford to keep their houses.
Why shouldn't the locals develop an attitude?
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Aug 4 2005, 11:44 AM)
I am, however, curious who can afford these homes -- who's buying them. What must they do for a living to make that kinda dough? Where must they work? How do you qualify for that kinda job? Are those kinda jobs local -- why or why not? Where are those jobs? Etc. Is that okay with you?
why?
QUOTE (samy0 @ Aug 4 2005, 11:44 AM)
I see its all about you
Finally, someone gets it.
That's all a joke for anyone humor impaired that may be reading this.
why not?
I've moved gradually over the years, from Montgomery, PG, Frederick, and over the last 4 years now have lived in Washington County. I'm sad to see it changing from the rural area it once was to the suburbs that I moved from. I rented on an old farm, and most recently moved into the city. I hate to see the farms turning into subdivisions and shopping centers.
Yes, I moved from the 'burbs, but to get away from the noise, traffic, McMansions, and "conveniences." I didn't want to bring what I left behind!
Yes, I moved from the 'burbs, but to get away from the noise, traffic, McMansions, and "conveniences." I didn't want to bring what I left behind!
Let me clarify my opinion here. I don't hate outsiders. And my original cite of "outsiders" was done tongue-in-cheek, that's why I put it in quotes.
I judge people individually, not collectively. But like Snoopy pointed out, the places that we used to hunt, wander, hike, take in the scenery, etc., are now super-highways, large housing developments, huge shopping centers, fast-food joints. Locals could not care less about Starbucks, Olive Garden, Chili's, Red Lobster and all the rest of the ilk. We didn't mind having to drive to Baltimore or Washington to hit the big stores. We liked being able to drive from one end of Hagerstown to the other in 10 minutes instead of the current half hour.
We liked our small school class sizes. We loved the smell of cow manure. We liked to look at the herds of dairy cows and the small horse farms. The huge expanses of corn fields. The quiet. The sound of Bob-Whites, the deer, the foxes. The smell of the fresh clean air. The ability to drive our cars without having to take them in for emissions inspections.
We didn't mind being called back-woods folks. In fact we were proud of the designation. We didn't mind if the twentieth or twenty-first century passed us by.
As I've said before, the folks moving in from the urban areas, are moving here to escape the urban blight, the cost of living. But in so doing, they are inadvertantly bringing with them the things that caused them to take flight, the things that they are trying to escape.
I judge people individually, not collectively. But like Snoopy pointed out, the places that we used to hunt, wander, hike, take in the scenery, etc., are now super-highways, large housing developments, huge shopping centers, fast-food joints. Locals could not care less about Starbucks, Olive Garden, Chili's, Red Lobster and all the rest of the ilk. We didn't mind having to drive to Baltimore or Washington to hit the big stores. We liked being able to drive from one end of Hagerstown to the other in 10 minutes instead of the current half hour.
We liked our small school class sizes. We loved the smell of cow manure. We liked to look at the herds of dairy cows and the small horse farms. The huge expanses of corn fields. The quiet. The sound of Bob-Whites, the deer, the foxes. The smell of the fresh clean air. The ability to drive our cars without having to take them in for emissions inspections.
We didn't mind being called back-woods folks. In fact we were proud of the designation. We didn't mind if the twentieth or twenty-first century passed us by.
As I've said before, the folks moving in from the urban areas, are moving here to escape the urban blight, the cost of living. But in so doing, they are inadvertantly bringing with them the things that caused them to take flight, the things that they are trying to escape.
I agree with you Samy. I really don't understand the anti-outsider mentality. I wold love to see this area become more diverse and open-minded. Eventually it will. The sooner the better.
I have lived here almost 30 years (yes, i will be 30 shortly)... ugh. And over the past 5 years, it has definitely changed for the best.
Some people like change, some don't. - Some people eat at the same restaurant every time they go out for dinner or lunch. ...and sometimes they order the same thing off of the menu.
Maybe its a comfort zone thing... When you invade that zone, some people don't like it. You know, like taking a doggies chew toy away from them. They sorta growl at you sometimes.
I have lived here almost 30 years (yes, i will be 30 shortly)... ugh. And over the past 5 years, it has definitely changed for the best.
Some people like change, some don't. - Some people eat at the same restaurant every time they go out for dinner or lunch. ...and sometimes they order the same thing off of the menu.
Maybe its a comfort zone thing... When you invade that zone, some people don't like it. You know, like taking a doggies chew toy away from them. They sorta growl at you sometimes.
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Aug 4 2005, 12:12 PM)
We liked our small school class sizes. We loved the smell of cow manure. We liked to look at the herds of dairy cows and the small horse farms. The huge expanses of corn fields. The quiet. The sound of Bob-Whites, the deer, the foxes. The smell of the fresh clean air. The ability to drive our cars without having to take them in for emissions inspections.
We didn't mind being called back-woods folks. In fact we were proud of the designation. We didn't mind if the twentieth or twenty-first century passed us by.
As I've said before, the folks moving in from the urban areas, are moving here to escape the urban blight, the cost of living. But in so doing, they are inadvertantly bringing with them the things that caused them to take flight, the things that they are trying to escape.
We didn't mind being called back-woods folks. In fact we were proud of the designation. We didn't mind if the twentieth or twenty-first century passed us by.
As I've said before, the folks moving in from the urban areas, are moving here to escape the urban blight, the cost of living. But in so doing, they are inadvertantly bringing with them the things that caused them to take flight, the things that they are trying to escape.
Well it's here...better look into the Hancock area
Naw, greedy. a little further west or south than that. 
Well then embrace it or move or STFU... 
QUOTE (GreedyXJ @ Aug 4 2005, 12:21 PM)
Well then embrace it or move or STFU...
See, that's exactly the attitude that the "outsiders" bring with them.
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Aug 4 2005, 12:25 PM)
QUOTE (GreedyXJ @ Aug 4 2005, 12:21 PM)
Well then embrace it or move or STFU...
See, that's exactly the attitude that the "outsiders" bring with them.
oh $hit they got me brainwashed
Oh I know the kind of people who can afford those houses, and IMHO we don't want them in our County.
We've been over the "outsider" issues over and over and over again. Why bother rehashing the SOS?
We've been over the "outsider" issues over and over and over again. Why bother rehashing the SOS?
QUOTE (BMIC @ Aug 4 2005, 12:51 PM)
Oh I know the kind of people wo can afford those houses, and IMHO we don't want them in our County.
too late BMIC free your mind and your arse will follow
QUOTE (BMIC @ Aug 4 2005, 12:51 PM)
Why bother rehashing the SOS?
Then what would we have to talk about?
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Aug 4 2005, 12:54 PM)
QUOTE (BMIC @ Aug 4 2005, 12:51 PM)
Why bother rehashing the SOS?
Then what would we have to talk about?
my new shoes...
As someone who (with regrets) is moving in the opposite direction (toward DC)....
A few weeks ago, I downloaded the data on all single-dwelling building lots for sale in Washington County and ran 'em through some stats software. The median lot price was $162,000; the average price was $171,000. A statistical test showed that lot size had only a small effect on the total price; most all of the value of a building lot comes from the fact that it is a "legal" lot.
I think this has a lot to do with the McMansion phenomenon. If a homebuyer or developer has to drop $160,000-$170,000 for a building lot and an additional $13,000-$26,000 for the county impact fee, he's not then going to build a modest two-bedroom house on the lot. To do so would be akin to buying a $5,000 diamond and mounting it on a stainless steel band. The only homebuyers and developers who are going to drop $160,000-$170,000 on a lot are the homebuyers and developers who are going to build big houses.
At the moment, that's simply the condition of the Washington County market. However, I think lot prices will slide back a little in the near term because of the lifting of the rural building moratorium (which placed a more onerous constraint on the residential land market than the now-implemented downzoning). If they slide back enough, I think we'll see more modest housing being built.
(BTW, in the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2004, the median sale price for a new house in Washington County was $252,242; the overall median house sale price--new & existing--was $165,000.)
As far as who's buying the homes, I suspect "newcomers" are a small percentage of the total purchasers. In 2004, exactly 800 new homes were purchased in 2004, but 2,567 existing homes were also sold. I suspect a lot of the McMansion buyers are newcomers who, flush with cash from the sale of their existing house, are willing to use that money and a mortgage to buy their dream home.
I have a question, though. Why is this a big deal? New houses make up a small percentage of the overall homes-for-sale market (in WashCo, between 20% and 30% over the past few years), and a very tiny percentage of the overall housing stock (800 new dwelling units in 2004 compared to a total housing stock of almost 57,000 units). So why get so hyper over what really is a small part of the overall housing market?
A few weeks ago, I downloaded the data on all single-dwelling building lots for sale in Washington County and ran 'em through some stats software. The median lot price was $162,000; the average price was $171,000. A statistical test showed that lot size had only a small effect on the total price; most all of the value of a building lot comes from the fact that it is a "legal" lot.
I think this has a lot to do with the McMansion phenomenon. If a homebuyer or developer has to drop $160,000-$170,000 for a building lot and an additional $13,000-$26,000 for the county impact fee, he's not then going to build a modest two-bedroom house on the lot. To do so would be akin to buying a $5,000 diamond and mounting it on a stainless steel band. The only homebuyers and developers who are going to drop $160,000-$170,000 on a lot are the homebuyers and developers who are going to build big houses.
At the moment, that's simply the condition of the Washington County market. However, I think lot prices will slide back a little in the near term because of the lifting of the rural building moratorium (which placed a more onerous constraint on the residential land market than the now-implemented downzoning). If they slide back enough, I think we'll see more modest housing being built.
(BTW, in the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2004, the median sale price for a new house in Washington County was $252,242; the overall median house sale price--new & existing--was $165,000.)
As far as who's buying the homes, I suspect "newcomers" are a small percentage of the total purchasers. In 2004, exactly 800 new homes were purchased in 2004, but 2,567 existing homes were also sold. I suspect a lot of the McMansion buyers are newcomers who, flush with cash from the sale of their existing house, are willing to use that money and a mortgage to buy their dream home.
I have a question, though. Why is this a big deal? New houses make up a small percentage of the overall homes-for-sale market (in WashCo, between 20% and 30% over the past few years), and a very tiny percentage of the overall housing stock (800 new dwelling units in 2004 compared to a total housing stock of almost 57,000 units). So why get so hyper over what really is a small part of the overall housing market?
Tom, I think the hyperness is all about perception. We generally don't see the individual pre-owned house being sold. Oh, sure, we ride around and see the for sale signs, and some actually read the little real estate booklets every month in the Herald-Mail. Or we pick up those newsprint booklets at the local eating establishments.
What we see are the bulldozers over on Maugans Av, Eastern, and perhaps soon to be Williamsport, among other places. We see the big development companies in Black Rock, Redamar, etc., with their contruction equipment in and out.
We also see homes that sold for $150,000 seven or eight years ago, now going for in excess of $300,000.
You can show data that disprove the perception, 'till you're blue in the face, but the perception is what drives the mindset.
What we see are the bulldozers over on Maugans Av, Eastern, and perhaps soon to be Williamsport, among other places. We see the big development companies in Black Rock, Redamar, etc., with their contruction equipment in and out.
We also see homes that sold for $150,000 seven or eight years ago, now going for in excess of $300,000.
You can show data that disprove the perception, 'till you're blue in the face, but the perception is what drives the mindset.
Tfirey- Exactly!!!! Why is this such a big deal? why is everything bad that happens because of noobies? If they make up a small percentage how are they causing all the trouble? I'll give B credit at least he doesn't try to sugarcoat it. He just DOESN'T LIKE NOOBIES! At least he is upfront about it. I realize all your old childhood haunts are changing. Well guess what SO WERE MINE! Thats why I moved. If you don't want new people around you. If you can't socially adapt to change. Just say so. Don't blow smoke up my arse and tell me its because where you used to watch the bunnies frolic is now a gas station! Wake up! Over time things change! if its not someone wanting a better life and building their dream house do you seriously think that couple of acres was never going to be developed? do I have a chip on my shoulder? of course I do! When people of this county openly discuss how the new people are ruining their lives how do you expect someone to act? should i just bow down and thank you for letting me move to your neck of the woods?
QUOTE (samy0 @ Aug 4 2005, 01:22 PM)
should i just bow down and thank you for letting me move to your neck of the woods?
That would be a good first move...
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Aug 4 2005, 01:17 PM)
Tom, I think the hyperness is all about perception. We generally don't see the individual pre-owned house being sold. Oh, sure, we ride around and see the for sale signs, and some actually read the little real estate booklets every month in the Herald-Mail. Or we pick up those newsprint booklets at the local eating establishments.
What we see are the bulldozers over on Maugans Av, Eastern, and perhaps soon to be Williamsport, among other places. We see the big development companies in Black Rock, Redamar, etc., with their contruction equipment in and out.
We also see homes that sold for $150,000 seven or eight years ago, now going for in excess of $300,000.
You can show data that disprove the perception, 'till you're blue in the face, but the perception is what drives the mindset.
What we see are the bulldozers over on Maugans Av, Eastern, and perhaps soon to be Williamsport, among other places. We see the big development companies in Black Rock, Redamar, etc., with their contruction equipment in and out.
We also see homes that sold for $150,000 seven or eight years ago, now going for in excess of $300,000.
You can show data that disprove the perception, 'till you're blue in the face, but the perception is what drives the mindset.
Do you believe this is the only place where thats happening?
I bought a townhome in 93 for under 100K and I sold it for 2.5X in 02. That is just how its going and effects everyone everywhere. Not just here
as far as perception goes thats your cross to bare. I can't tell anyone how to think.
and maybe just maybe its your perception that is skewed not everyone elses.
Just a thought
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Aug 4 2005, 01:27 PM)
QUOTE (samy0 @ Aug 4 2005, 01:22 PM)
should i just bow down and thank you for letting me move to your neck of the woods?
That would be a good first move...
It probably would have been my first move if the locals didn't make me feel so unwelcome. No glad to have you, we baked you a pie instead I get your the reason my roads suck and your big house doesn't fit in.
Hagerstown instead of renaming it everyonetown how about
Hagerstown -where we can't stand you because your not from here
and were to stubborn to try to get to know you or adapt!
Have a wonderful time. and while your here be sure to check out the Klan rally or the Anti abortion protest!
Its just like out of a norman Rockwell Picture
Perhaps you're right Samy. Perhaps.
I gave an opinion. My opinion. I offered an explanation.
No need to get all defensive about it.
Are you not happy here? Do you perhaps regret moving here, for whatever reasons?
I've offered some possible explanations. Nothing more.
I certainly did not intend anything personal and I'm sorry you took it that way.
I gave an opinion. My opinion. I offered an explanation.
No need to get all defensive about it.
Are you not happy here? Do you perhaps regret moving here, for whatever reasons?
I've offered some possible explanations. Nothing more.
I certainly did not intend anything personal and I'm sorry you took it that way.
Ya' know what Samy. You paint the locals as the bad guys. Let me tell you a little personal story here.
I moved across town into a new house in a fairly new development. At the time I bought, I had no neighbors close by.
As the first house was built and the Baltimore family moved in, I gave them a couple days to get settled. Grabbed a couple of beers out of the fridge and walked over to introduce myself. Well, after getting the cold shoulder and being looked at like I had 6 ears growing out of my head, I excused myself and walked back home. Just chalked it up to experience.
The second house was built and the Montgomery County family moved in. I steeled up my resolve, grabbed a couple of soft drinks and walked over and introduced myself. I was greeted as well as a burglar may have been greeted.
The third house greeted the next family from Rockville. Well, the old saying "three strikes and you're out" held true. I won't go into the rudeness that greeted me.
I'm not a difficult person to get to know. If someone needs help with something, I'm there. If you want to be left alone, I'm gone.
Now, tell me again how you were greeted...
I moved across town into a new house in a fairly new development. At the time I bought, I had no neighbors close by.
As the first house was built and the Baltimore family moved in, I gave them a couple days to get settled. Grabbed a couple of beers out of the fridge and walked over to introduce myself. Well, after getting the cold shoulder and being looked at like I had 6 ears growing out of my head, I excused myself and walked back home. Just chalked it up to experience.
The second house was built and the Montgomery County family moved in. I steeled up my resolve, grabbed a couple of soft drinks and walked over and introduced myself. I was greeted as well as a burglar may have been greeted.
The third house greeted the next family from Rockville. Well, the old saying "three strikes and you're out" held true. I won't go into the rudeness that greeted me.
I'm not a difficult person to get to know. If someone needs help with something, I'm there. If you want to be left alone, I'm gone.
Now, tell me again how you were greeted...
Maybe your Right Guard took a left those 3 days...
To be honest luckily I moved into a nice neighborhood where the people are friendly. And we all love it. the places where I have run into the us against them mentality is mostly here and out and about in public. believe me personally I couldn't care what 99% of people think of me or my house. the only reason I always stand up for the "outsiders" is that especially on this board the thinking seems to be that everything is their fault and some people seem to resent them solely on the fact of how much money they make. One of the first encounters of mine on this board wasn't a welcome to the hood or hello but was someone griping about me asking if there was a coffee shop. End of the day, it doesn't really matter because I live here now and will be here until they carry me away. I just can't understand the us against them mentality because I have never run into it on this grand of a scale. it just seems very petty.
As for stories. Heres one. I moved to a place and found a local forum i thought would be helpful. I sign up and realize that 60+% of the posters seem to think less of me because i wasn't born here. Do I write it off as a bunch of idiots and not
interact with them and write the whole town off as stuck-up?
I don't think the locals are bad guys. I think that for some reason there are resistant to change, stubborn, and willing to find fault whenever they get a chance when it comes to something new.
As for stories. Heres one. I moved to a place and found a local forum i thought would be helpful. I sign up and realize that 60+% of the posters seem to think less of me because i wasn't born here. Do I write it off as a bunch of idiots and not
interact with them and write the whole town off as stuck-up?
I don't think the locals are bad guys. I think that for some reason there are resistant to change, stubborn, and willing to find fault whenever they get a chance when it comes to something new.
Why is any of this a "big deal"?
Samyo tells us we'll see great advantages to many new people moving here -- "better schools and better roads". Um...where? I see kids stuffed into portables. I see potholes and crumbling roads everywhere. I see higher taxes. And, yes, I see what used to be nice scenery turned into houses and stores. Probably more crime and drugs, noise and pollution.
Why'd you move here? To get away from all that? So why do you think "locals" should like it that it is coming here, too quickly? Some growth is normal, necessary, reasonable, fine. But too much isn't good. I think we're there or getting there quickly. Should everyone "local" be forced to move to continue to live in a more rural area?
It isn't so much the people as individuals I care about or "hate" as you put it. Despite your mindreading claims you have no such talent.
Samyo tells us we'll see great advantages to many new people moving here -- "better schools and better roads". Um...where? I see kids stuffed into portables. I see potholes and crumbling roads everywhere. I see higher taxes. And, yes, I see what used to be nice scenery turned into houses and stores. Probably more crime and drugs, noise and pollution.
Why'd you move here? To get away from all that? So why do you think "locals" should like it that it is coming here, too quickly? Some growth is normal, necessary, reasonable, fine. But too much isn't good. I think we're there or getting there quickly. Should everyone "local" be forced to move to continue to live in a more rural area?
It isn't so much the people as individuals I care about or "hate" as you put it. Despite your mindreading claims you have no such talent.
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Aug 4 2005, 01:41 PM)
Perhaps you're right Samy. Perhaps.
I gave an opinion. My opinion. I offered an explanation.
No need to get all defensive about it.
Are you not happy here? Do you perhaps regret moving here, for whatever reasons?
I've offered some possible explanations. Nothing more.
I certainly did not intend anything personal and I'm sorry you took it that way.
I gave an opinion. My opinion. I offered an explanation.
No need to get all defensive about it.
Are you not happy here? Do you perhaps regret moving here, for whatever reasons?
I've offered some possible explanations. Nothing more.
I certainly did not intend anything personal and I'm sorry you took it that way.
I try not to be defensive. I just try to understand the thinking and why people
are so wrapped up in the us vs. them.
These are opinions on my part also. Don't you want to know what these people you think are ruining things for you think also? or do you not care what they think?
I love it here. Don't regret it for a second. Do i wish there wasn't such an animosity between these groups? Yes
the explanations I have heard are either based on a perception, nostalgic, or just mean spirited for the sake of it
I know nothing personal was intended (at least by you) and its nothing I'll lose sleep over. I am now and will forever be OUTSIDER MAN
!!!!!!!!Also I can stir the pot this way without getting into gays, religion, or abortion
Snoopy>>> heres your original post
"As I travel around Washco and surrounding areas I see lots of new housing developments going in with (from my perspective) tremendously expensive houses going in. Off Monroe Road, near Sheetz off Rt. 40 and 66, behind Terry's Auto/AC&T in Boonsboro, across from Beaver Creek Country Club, etc. etc. Some of these houses are $800,000 and more.
I find myself wondering who the heck can afford to buy a house like that? Even with a 30 year mortgage at 5% that's $4300/mo for just P&I!!!! Add taxes and insurance and it's gotta be $5000/mo easy.
So who's got the bucks to buy houses like this? It sure ain't me! "
Your whole post is about $$$$$$$ They have it and you don't If you can tell me that wasn't your meaning well I'll have to believe you.
I never claimed to be a mind reader and if i said hate it was just paraphrasing.
My mistake for not quoting you correctly. As far as talent goes I'm not sure you really want to get into that topic with me. I have noticed you have become very testy and tense lately. you really shouldn't let the moderator tag bother you that much. As I said in a previous post. i think you all do a great job but you seem to be the only one that is changing because of this and by that i mean you seem to be very agitated lately
"As I travel around Washco and surrounding areas I see lots of new housing developments going in with (from my perspective) tremendously expensive houses going in. Off Monroe Road, near Sheetz off Rt. 40 and 66, behind Terry's Auto/AC&T in Boonsboro, across from Beaver Creek Country Club, etc. etc. Some of these houses are $800,000 and more.
I find myself wondering who the heck can afford to buy a house like that? Even with a 30 year mortgage at 5% that's $4300/mo for just P&I!!!! Add taxes and insurance and it's gotta be $5000/mo easy.
So who's got the bucks to buy houses like this? It sure ain't me! "
Your whole post is about $$$$$$$ They have it and you don't If you can tell me that wasn't your meaning well I'll have to believe you.
I never claimed to be a mind reader and if i said hate it was just paraphrasing.
My mistake for not quoting you correctly. As far as talent goes I'm not sure you really want to get into that topic with me. I have noticed you have become very testy and tense lately. you really shouldn't let the moderator tag bother you that much. As I said in a previous post. i think you all do a great job but you seem to be the only one that is changing because of this and by that i mean you seem to be very agitated lately
QUOTE (samy0 @ Aug 4 2005, 02:39 PM)
Snoopy>>> heres your original post
"As I travel around Washco and surrounding areas I see lots of new housing developments going in with (from my perspective) tremendously expensive houses going in. Off Monroe Road, near Sheetz off Rt. 40 and 66, behind Terry's Auto/AC&T in Boonsboro, across from Beaver Creek Country Club, etc. etc. Some of these houses are $800,000 and more.
I find myself wondering who the heck can afford to buy a house like that? Even with a 30 year mortgage at 5% that's $4300/mo for just P&I!!!! Add taxes and insurance and it's gotta be $5000/mo easy.
So who's got the bucks to buy houses like this? It sure ain't me! "
Your whole post is about $$$$$$$ They have it and you don't If you can tell me that wasn't your meaning well I'll have to believe you.
I never claimed to be a mind reader and if i said hate it was just paraphrasing.
My mistake for not quoting you correctly. As far as talent goes I'm not sure you really want to get into that topic with me. I have noticed you have become very testy and tense lately. you really shouldn't let the moderator tag bother you that much. As I said in a previous post. i think you all do a great job but you seem to be the only one that is changing because of this and by that i mean you seem to be very agitated lately
"As I travel around Washco and surrounding areas I see lots of new housing developments going in with (from my perspective) tremendously expensive houses going in. Off Monroe Road, near Sheetz off Rt. 40 and 66, behind Terry's Auto/AC&T in Boonsboro, across from Beaver Creek Country Club, etc. etc. Some of these houses are $800,000 and more.
I find myself wondering who the heck can afford to buy a house like that? Even with a 30 year mortgage at 5% that's $4300/mo for just P&I!!!! Add taxes and insurance and it's gotta be $5000/mo easy.
So who's got the bucks to buy houses like this? It sure ain't me! "
Your whole post is about $$$$$$$ They have it and you don't If you can tell me that wasn't your meaning well I'll have to believe you.
I never claimed to be a mind reader and if i said hate it was just paraphrasing.
My mistake for not quoting you correctly. As far as talent goes I'm not sure you really want to get into that topic with me. I have noticed you have become very testy and tense lately. you really shouldn't let the moderator tag bother you that much. As I said in a previous post. i think you all do a great job but you seem to be the only one that is changing because of this and by that i mean you seem to be very agitated lately
Yes, I really wondered who can afford those houses. Some say it is mostly locals, some say mostly newbies, some say they have zero interest loans and some say just great jobs. I dunno, but I wondered, -- so I asked. It morphed into locals vs. newbies, but that was not the crux of my question.
If there are jobs around here that pay enough for folks to afford those homes maybe I need to look into what it takes to get one. Not because I want one of those homes, but because like most folks I'd like to do better in the $ department and haven't been doing so for awhile. But I'm a conservative who believes in the free market so I don't begrudge someone who has the knowledge, talent, and hard work to get ahead and make big bucks, and I don't think they should be busted-on or taxed to death for doing so. But I'd like to join 'em.
As for my being "testy and tense", if I am I assure you the mod issue isn't it. There are many more serious issues we face in this world, like health, life and death, family and self, all of which makes this forum -- and certainly who is and isn't a mod -- pale in comparison.
I`ve lived in Hagerstown for the past 59 years.
I`m getting ready to built a new house in the county. My daughter lives not to far away from where we will be building. I baby sit my grand kids sometimes at her house. They`ve been over there for about 2 years now. The neighbors have yet to speak to them or me. I told my daughter it`s because these people don`t trust anyone. It`s where they moved from and how it was in there old neighbor hood.
When i move into that area i`ll be just me. If you want to chat ok by me.But if you think you need to tell me something that you don`t like about my home or what i do there. Well get a grip on yourself i`m not hearing you.
True story
I was in a store one morning and a lady asked me if that was my dog in the back of my truck. I said yes it is. I thought maby she liked my dog (wrong)She commenced to tell me i can`t put my dog in the back of my tuck. All i said to her was. I bet your from Mont Co. She just walked away a little po.ed That is what i don`t like about most people from down the road. They want to correct you on how to do this or that. Just to please themselves.
I`m getting ready to built a new house in the county. My daughter lives not to far away from where we will be building. I baby sit my grand kids sometimes at her house. They`ve been over there for about 2 years now. The neighbors have yet to speak to them or me. I told my daughter it`s because these people don`t trust anyone. It`s where they moved from and how it was in there old neighbor hood.
When i move into that area i`ll be just me. If you want to chat ok by me.But if you think you need to tell me something that you don`t like about my home or what i do there. Well get a grip on yourself i`m not hearing you.
True story
I was in a store one morning and a lady asked me if that was my dog in the back of my truck. I said yes it is. I thought maby she liked my dog (wrong)She commenced to tell me i can`t put my dog in the back of my tuck. All i said to her was. I bet your from Mont Co. She just walked away a little po.ed That is what i don`t like about most people from down the road. They want to correct you on how to do this or that. Just to please themselves.
Okay Samy.
I tried to explain things as I see it. Right or wrong.
WashCo was a small (by some standards) rural community. People in that type of community want to hold on to what they have, not what could be. Any change can't be for the good. Kind of like if your company reorganizes. You no longer will be doing the same job. Perhaps you're going to be moved to a different building, or a different floor in that building. Most folks are going to biatch and complain because of the change.
Change, no matter whether good or bad, is only going to be reluctantly accepted.
I guess the way you've been treated by a few of the locals is no different than the way some people of different races have been treated. One of our posters has pointed that out all too well.
If I've been negligent in welcoming you to the forum or to the community, allow me to do that now.
I tried to explain things as I see it. Right or wrong.
WashCo was a small (by some standards) rural community. People in that type of community want to hold on to what they have, not what could be. Any change can't be for the good. Kind of like if your company reorganizes. You no longer will be doing the same job. Perhaps you're going to be moved to a different building, or a different floor in that building. Most folks are going to biatch and complain because of the change.
Change, no matter whether good or bad, is only going to be reluctantly accepted.
I guess the way you've been treated by a few of the locals is no different than the way some people of different races have been treated. One of our posters has pointed that out all too well.
If I've been negligent in welcoming you to the forum or to the community, allow me to do that now.
QUOTE
Um...where? I see kids stuffed into portables.
There definitely are a lot of portables. But, a trivia question for everyone:
Was last year's enrollment in Washington County Public Schools the highest, second highest, or third highest in county history?
Feel free to take a guess. I'll post the answer tomorrow....
I would most likely be considered a newbie by the standards of most here. We moved here 7 years ago. We built a nice, but not huge house in a subdivision in the north end after deciding we liked it here and wanted to put down roots (after moving about every year due to hubby's job). Our house was built by a local builder who does about 6 a year.
Then the subdivision was taken over by a group out of Frederick who started putting in monster homes on tiny lots, jacking up the prices way beyond what anyone locally (aside from doctors and lawyers) could afford, and sold them to folks from over the mountain. The majority, certainly not all, are never home to be neighborly with, are anti-social when they are home, and don't seem to give back anything to their community, as in volunteering in any capacity-- be it schools, sports teams, church, or other non-profit-type enterprises. I'm sorry, but tax money can't be the only contribution one makes to a society in order for it to be successful.
I don't consider myself a transplant, because Hagerstown is my home. It is where I live, work, play, pray, and volunteer in a number of capacities. It isn't just where I sleep. It is also the only place my daughter remembers living, so it is very much her home.
I don't want to ruffle feathers, just stating my "perception" of the area. Change is inevitable, but it must be done thoughtfully and in a slow, logical, and controlled manner. JMHO.
Then the subdivision was taken over by a group out of Frederick who started putting in monster homes on tiny lots, jacking up the prices way beyond what anyone locally (aside from doctors and lawyers) could afford, and sold them to folks from over the mountain. The majority, certainly not all, are never home to be neighborly with, are anti-social when they are home, and don't seem to give back anything to their community, as in volunteering in any capacity-- be it schools, sports teams, church, or other non-profit-type enterprises. I'm sorry, but tax money can't be the only contribution one makes to a society in order for it to be successful.
I don't consider myself a transplant, because Hagerstown is my home. It is where I live, work, play, pray, and volunteer in a number of capacities. It isn't just where I sleep. It is also the only place my daughter remembers living, so it is very much her home.
I don't want to ruffle feathers, just stating my "perception" of the area. Change is inevitable, but it must be done thoughtfully and in a slow, logical, and controlled manner. JMHO.
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Aug 4 2005, 02:58 PM)
Okay Samy.
I tried to explain things as I see it. Right or wrong.
WashCo was a small (by some standards) rural community. People in that type of community want to hold on to what they have, not what could be. Any change can't be for the good. Kind of like if your company reorganizes. You no longer will be doing the same job. Perhaps you're going to be moved to a different building, or a different floor in that building. Most folks are going to biatch and complain because of the change.
Change, no matter whether good or bad, is only going to be reluctantly accepted.
I guess the way you've been treated by a few of the locals is no different than the way some people of different races have been treated. One of our posters has pointed that out all too well.
If I've been negligent in welcoming you to the forum or to the community, allow me to do that now.
I tried to explain things as I see it. Right or wrong.
WashCo was a small (by some standards) rural community. People in that type of community want to hold on to what they have, not what could be. Any change can't be for the good. Kind of like if your company reorganizes. You no longer will be doing the same job. Perhaps you're going to be moved to a different building, or a different floor in that building. Most folks are going to biatch and complain because of the change.
Change, no matter whether good or bad, is only going to be reluctantly accepted.
I guess the way you've been treated by a few of the locals is no different than the way some people of different races have been treated. One of our posters has pointed that out all too well.
If I've been negligent in welcoming you to the forum or to the community, allow me to do that now.
Yoss>>Once again. No offense taken or intended. I thought I should clarify why i feel this way or what happened to make me feel this way. I dont need a big old hello or a pat on the butt (at least not from you
). i am just trying to play devils advocate and explain the other sides view. it just so happens thats the "outsiders view". There are numerous people who post here that I respect their points of view and find them informative and sometimes entertaining. I just don't get the whole attitude and whenever the subject comes up I always try to find out why its like that here. Just curiousSnoopy>> your absolutely right you didn't steer the conversation to the outsider issue but were willing to jump right in when it did come up. I hope whatever is troubling you isn't too serious and is resolvable.
Either side that your on until they make a law that says NO NEW PEOPLE HERE
we all have to live with it and try to get by the best we can. I just think the us vs. them just makes everything that much harder on both sides
McGee>> you are the one that introduced me to the us vs. them attitutde when I first got here. I responded in an undignified manner and also apologized for it. I also learned a lesson that everyone has their own way of thinking of things. I see you still use "those people" and "people from there". I'll just chalk that up to you being set in your way and I doubt you'll ever change. Everyone from Mont. county is not the anti-christ! There are good and bad (even up here) but unfortunately you had a bad experience and now you will hold that grudge against all of them
Moms>> I agree that slower change always goes smoother but the home owners aren't the people building these homes. Its the developers. You can't blame someone for wanting to live in a nicer neighborhood and finding a house that is half the price of something in their neighborhood. If everyone wants to be P.O.'ed at someone why not take it out on county councilman or city councilmen instead of the poor sap that buys a house here just wanting something better for their families and has to incur the locals wrath? If this is how all of you feel and you elected the local officials why are you not all fuming and calling for their heads?
If they didn't OK all this new building you wouldn't have any problems. All the noobies would go elsewhere and live happily ever after
Damn Sam I don`t know the names of those people. So i use( them & us.)
Your right i won`t change.
Your right i won`t change.
QUOTE (Mcgee @ Aug 4 2005, 03:28 PM)
Damn Sam I don`t know the names of those people. So i use( them & us.)
Your right i won`t change.
Your right i won`t change.
And I accept that. And by now I'm sure you realize that theres a good chance that I am never going to feel like a local either
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Aug 4 2005, 01:58 PM)
As the first house was built and the Baltimore family moved in, I gave them a couple days to get settled. Grabbed a couple of beers out of the fridge and walked over to introduce myself. Well, after getting the cold shoulder and being looked at like I had 6 ears growing out of my head, I excused myself and walked back home. Just chalked it up to experience.
The second house was built and the Montgomery County family moved in. I steeled up my resolve, grabbed a couple of soft drinks and walked over and introduced myself. I was greeted as well as a burglar may have been greeted.
The third house greeted the next family from Rockville. Well, the old saying "three strikes and you're out" held true. I won't go into the rudeness that greeted me.
I'm not a difficult person to get to know. If someone needs help with something, I'm there. If you want to be left alone, I'm gone.
The second house was built and the Montgomery County family moved in. I steeled up my resolve, grabbed a couple of soft drinks and walked over and introduced myself. I was greeted as well as a burglar may have been greeted.
The third house greeted the next family from Rockville. Well, the old saying "three strikes and you're out" held true. I won't go into the rudeness that greeted me.
I'm not a difficult person to get to know. If someone needs help with something, I'm there. If you want to be left alone, I'm gone.
I'd rather keep my neighbors at arms length. I think it's smart not to get close. You get entire neighborhoods watching each other's kids, having block parties, interacting practically every day, then the bickering starts. Next thing you know the whole neighborhood hates each other and complains about each other and makes your life a living hell.
Now if someone came to me the way Yoss did, I would close my door, come outside and sit on the step and chat and indulge in a drink, but I'd make it short. I simply don't want to encourage nosy-neighbor behavior.
That's not to say I wouldn't be friendly. If my neighbor needed to borrow a tool or something, sure. If they were very old or sick, I would mow their lawn or shovel their snow - but I'd prolly do it without asking.
I know Yoss didn't imply that he would be a nuisance, but even with the nicest people, I would immediately establish an arm's length relationship that some people might construe as rude.
Yes, I certainly place most of the "blame" on the developers, and our elected morons, I mean, officials. However, developers wouldn't be building the houses and shopping centers if there wasn't demand for them. I feel the demand isn't coming from those already living here, but from those wanting to come here for cheaper cost of living, better schools, and a more relaxed atmosphere than the city. With them comes the "I wish" and "I miss" syndrome (I experienced it too, coming here from LA and Chicago) and the developer "genie" who grants all the city trappings like big box stores and chain restaurants. It is a truly complex cycle, I believe, but one that always has and always will exist to some degree.
As for Tom's question, I won't answer it exactly, but I would rather look at capacity than enrollment. I believe 9 or so schools were over capacity last year, and it is just getting worse. I'm glad my daughter will be out of Paramount after this year because I fear that place is going to start a rapid decline. Then all those folks who bought here because of the "great" schools are going to be really upset. Of course redistricting isn't going to go over well either. Oh, and why is it that a 3 story office building (ala PA Ave at the old Kerch's) can go up in a year, but it takes several to get a deperately needed school built?
As for Tom's question, I won't answer it exactly, but I would rather look at capacity than enrollment. I believe 9 or so schools were over capacity last year, and it is just getting worse. I'm glad my daughter will be out of Paramount after this year because I fear that place is going to start a rapid decline. Then all those folks who bought here because of the "great" schools are going to be really upset. Of course redistricting isn't going to go over well either. Oh, and why is it that a 3 story office building (ala PA Ave at the old Kerch's) can go up in a year, but it takes several to get a deperately needed school built?
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