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Yossarian
An 8-year old girl was one of the first to shoot and kill a black bear in Western MD. Now that she's done it, I wonder how she feels about it.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal...local-headlines
Youngest marksman gets her bear first, as hunt begins in Md.


By Tom Pelton
Sun reporter

October 25, 2005

OAKLAND // It was a school morning, but Sierra Stiles wasn't gathering her books. Instead, in the pre-dawn blackness, the 8-year-old pulled on a camouflage shirt, pants and boots, and grabbed a high-powered hunting rifle.

The third-grader from Western Maryland had beaten out 1,992 applicants - mostly men - to be selected through a state lottery as one of only 200 to obtain hunting licenses for Maryland's second black bear hunt in a half-century.

Hiding with her father behind trees on her family's farm, Sierra used a .243-caliber rifle to shoot a 211-pound male black bear yesterday morning, the first kill of the season, according to the Maryland Department of Natural Resources. In the end, the youngest and smallest hunter also proved to be the quickest to claim a trophy.

"I'm so proud of her," said Robert Harvey, 65, her great-uncle, who owns the farm in Kitzmiller where the bear was shot. "It's good to get these kids outside, so they can really learn."

Sierra's bear, which she plans to turn into a rug, was one of 13 to be registered with game officers yesterday at the Mount Nebo Wildlife Management Area just north of Oakland, with two others weighed-in at a state office in Frostburg. It was the first day of a season expected to last three or four days, or until at least 40 are killed, twice as many as last year, state officials said. The plan is to kill no more than 55 bears this year.

Barred in Maryland since 1953, black bear hunting was resumed last fall in Garrett and western Allegany counties by wildlife managers who concluded that the animals were no longer endangered, with at least 500 in the state. Animal-rights protesters filed a failed lawsuit last year to try to halt the hunt, and two activists marched in Annapolis yesterday.

"Last year, the first bear killed was a cub, and this year, the first trophy hunter was an 8-year-old girl," said Michael Markarian, executive vice president of the Humane Society of the United States. 'This is a terrible cruelty."

There is no minimum legal age for hunting in Maryland. But the state has never licensed a hunter younger than about 7 because all hunters must pass a nine-hour safety class, which includes a live-fire drill to prove they can safely carry, load and shoot, said Paul Peditto, director of wildlife and heritage services at the department.

Two of the first three hunters to bring in bears for weighing yesterday were female. Overall, 46 out of 368 hunters (including the 200 permit holders and their companions) were female, or about 12 percent. A 9-year-old girl from Garrett County shot a 200-pound bear.

"Anywhere you go for hunting these days, you see a lot more women," said Tera Roach, a 23-year-old receptionist from Reisterstown who shot a 147-pound bear in Garrett County yesterday.

Peditto said he was highly impressed by Sierra, who scored a 98 on her written hunter safety test.

"Some people are going to be curious about this young hunter, but her actions show she's safe, responsible and dedicated," Peditto said.

The day started early for Sierra, at 4:58 a.m. It was a cold, rainy, miserable morning on her family's Garrett County farm. Her mother shook her awake after setting an alarm for herself. Sierra said she hadn't been able to sleep much because she was so excited about the hunt.

After dressing in camouflage, she spooned down some cereal as her dog Jack bounded around the kitchen. Then she headed out with her father and his uncle. Before the sun rose, they hopped into her father's cherry-red Ford pickup and drove to the corner of a field. They hid behind trees.

As they waited in the rain, listening, Donald Stiles, a 28-year- old coal miner, thought about a wager he'd made with his daughter.

"We had a little bet that she'd get a bear and I wouldn't get one at all," he said. "After all, she was the one who got the license, and so I was hunting on her license."

Something large moved at the edge of the misty field.

My great-uncle saw "a big, dark shadow, but didn't know what it was," Sierra said. "But my dad knew it was a bear.

"I was surprised to see a bear in front of me," said Sierra, who stands about 4 1/2 feet tall and has long, sandy hair. "I froze up and I was scared, because bears will eat anything."

They waited until the bear was about 50 yards away. Sierra took aim.

"I pulled the trigger, then shot a second time, and it ran a little ways before falling," she said. "I was jumping around, yelling, 'I got the bear! I got the bear!'"

Sierra and her father were the first to haul their kill yesterday to the state weigh-in station at Mount Nebo. Tim Kvech, a 38-year-old financial planner from Columbia, was the second, trucking in a bear less than half the size, a 90-pound female.

"Man, that girl must have been smooth, to reload a single-shot rifle like that and kill a bear," Kvech said, shaking his head. "My 9-year- old would have been scared to death."

Sierra's father backed his truck into a garage at the state offices, where state biologists bound the bear by its paws and hung it, tongue lolling, from a scale. They snipped samples of its hair, tongue and teeth for scientific testing.

Sierra, trembling with the cold, said classmates at Kitzmiller Elementary will probably be happy for her.

"But they're also going to be jealous, because they couldn't go hunting today," she said.

Sierra said she had a teddy bear at home, but had never seen a live bear before, except in a zoo.

Now Sierra is giving advice to other hunters, regardless of age.

"Do not ever try to shoot a bear in the wrong place," she lectured before the television cameras. "They can come at you, or they'll take off and you'll never find it. Hunt safe and be safe."
Naomi
I saw her on NBC 25 news last night. They announced that she played hooky from school to go hunting with dad biggrin.gif .

I tell ya, I'd never be able to shoot a black bear. Not because I don't know how to shoot, but they're just so cute sad.gif
WVDragonlady
She's only eight so she probably feels proud and happy.I wonder if she'll continue after her hormones kick in.Teen girls get real silly when that happens.Hopefully,after shes matured more she'll continue with the hunting if thats what she desires.

Good going Sierra!! exclam.gif
Old Griz
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Oct 25 2005, 06:29 AM)
An 8-year old girl was one of the first to shoot and kill a black bear in Western MD. Now that she's done it, I wonder how she feels about it.


From listening to her on the interview last night.. PROUD... and rightfully so... she harvested her game and did it in a safe manner...
Good for her... I hope she continues to enjoy the hunt and remembers something that I always taught my students in Hunter Safety classes and what I have taught y own daughter... I do not hunt what I will not eat... and believe it or not bear is good eating...
Mcgee
Congrats Serria on a good hunt.
I think she will continue to hunt deer and other animals.
It`s good to see young people interested in hunting.
Snoopy
QUOTE (Old Griz @ Oct 25 2005, 08:47 AM)
I hope she continues to enjoy the hunt and remembers something that I always taught my students in Hunter Safety classes and what I have taught my own daughter... I do not hunt what I will not eat... and believe it or not bear is good eating...
*


Griz,

I respect your opinion and your right to do as you your conscience dictates when it comes to your own hunting, but I think it is wrong for a hunter safety instructor to teach that it is somehow wrong or unethical to hunt an animal you do not intend to eat. If the game is legal and the method of hunting is legal, the rest is a personal choice.

Most game I harvest is eaten, but there are exceptions. I would assume if you have a mouse or a rat in your home you would trap and kill it with little thought toward eating it. In the same vein, I think hunting animals like crow, groundhog, nutria, etc. with no intent to eat the animal is not in any way wrong or unethical. JMO.
WVDragonlady
Who's hunting Crows!!!! mad.gif mad.gif
Stop hunting the Crows!

As for thr other critters Snoop mentioned,I feed them to the "pups" wink.gif .They usually get them for themselves tho so.... biggrin.gif
Snoopy
Don't tell me you like crows!!!???

They harass your owls and eat their young.

And there are waaaay too many of the vermin.
Heather
I just think the bear was too cute. I saw his feet and head. sad.gif

My first instinct is anger and sadness. I want to switch to bitch mode and yell at the little girl to go get a dress on and play with barbies for god's sake! But then I realize I sound like Scout's mean ol' aunt from To Kill a Mockingbird. And I remember how I used to terrorize the land and all wildlife on it when I was a little tomboy.

I'm torn. I understand, but I don't. I'm proud of her and I'm yet I get a sinking feeling in my gut.

I disagree with you Snoopy, of course. If she's not going to use it for food, then someone else should.
Snoopy
Who's gonna eat them snakes, Heather? ohmy.gif biggrin.gif
Old Griz
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Oct 25 2005, 08:09 AM)
QUOTE (Old Griz @ Oct 25 2005, 08:47 AM)
I hope she continues to enjoy the hunt and remembers something that I always taught my students in Hunter Safety classes and what I have taught my own daughter... I do not hunt what I will not eat... and believe it or not bear is good eating...
*


Griz,

I respect your opinion and your right to do as you your conscience dictates when it comes to your own hunting, but I think it is wrong for a hunter safety instructor to teach that it is somehow wrong or unethical to hunt an animal you do not intend to eat. If the game is legal and the method of hunting is legal, the rest is a personal choice.

Most game I harvest is eaten, but there are exceptions. I would assume if you have a mouse or a rat in your home you would trap and kill it with little thought toward eating it. In the same vein, I think hunting animals like crow, groundhog, nutria, etc. with no intent to eat the animal is not in any way wrong or unethical. JMO.
*



I phrased my statement a bit wrong... I never taught my students that it was unethical or immoral to hunt anything that they would not eat...
What I should have said, is that I told my students that I only hunted what I would eat... I never made it point that that is what they had to do... In NY, where I taught bowhunter education since the beginning of the program, we tried to teach our students that there was more to the animal than a set of horns... whether they used the meat themselves or gave it away, we tried to instill a respect for the animal in the harvest.
I have no problems with hunting woodchuck (groundhogs here in MD), crows and other vermin... in fact we have virtually no chucks on our land because both my wife and I have taken care of the problem over the years...
BTW, did you know that woodchuck is mighty fine eating.... I have had them roasted, stewed and made into chili... all you need to do it trim the fat real good because it has a nasty taste.
LOOKY LOU
QUOTE (WVDragonlady @ Oct 25 2005, 08:14 AM)
Who's hunting Crows!!!! mad.gif  mad.gif
Stop hunting the Crows!

As for thr other critters Snoop mentioned,I feed them to the "pups" wink.gif .They usually get them for themselves tho so.... biggrin.gif
*


Crows are the Mexican National Bird and illegal to shoot under a treaty.
Yossarian
yeah Looky, but baked into a pie, they're mighty tasty! laugh.gif
Heather
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Oct 25 2005, 10:44 AM)
Who's gonna eat them snakes, Heather?  ohmy.gif  biggrin.gif
*

The bear, Snoopy. The bear. rolleyes.gif
peacefrog
Personally, I don't have a problem with hunters, despite the fact that I'm a hippie animal lover. Most hunters I know are very responsible, and they do eat/use everything they kill, which is understandable and acceptable (IMHO). Frankly, it shows more gumption and more respect when someone chooses to kill their meal themselves, rather than buying their meat in neat little white packages from the local butcher. While I'd prefer that we didn't have to hunt, I believe to each his own.

That said... I cannot stand folks who kill an animal, skin it for fur, and then toss it's carcass away. It's a waste of life, and I believe the fellow creatures on our earth deserve more respect than that.
feistyirishbabe
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Oct 25 2005, 07:29 AM)
"I'm so proud of her," said Robert Harvey, 65, her great-uncle, who owns the farm in Kitzmiller where the bear was shot. "It's good to get these kids outside, so they can really learn."
-------
"Last year, the first bear killed was a cub, and this year, the first trophy hunter was an 8-year-old girl," said Michael Markarian, executive vice president of the Humane Society of the United States. 'This is a terrible cruelty."


Mmm ya it's great to get kids outside to be kids, to run and jump and play and enjoy their childhood. Not to learn how to handle a firearm and kill animals. She's a mere child, her parents should be ashamed for encouraging her to hunt at such a young age. mad.gif

I totally agree with the statement made by the Humane Society president, it's a terrible cruelty to say the least. sad.gif
Heather
Cubs are allowed to be killed? sad.gif
Heather
QUOTE (trueblue @ Oct 25 2005, 12:10 PM)
QUOTE (Heather @ Oct 25 2005, 04:01 PM)
The bare, Snoopy.


Eeeewwwwwww!!!!!
*


laugh.gif

Pics! Pics!
sheash
The crows hanging around Fort Detrick are big enough to pick up your car and fly away with it!

Sorry, WVD, I hate crows, too. My hubby says that they can see the bullet coming and sidestep it. I think he's pulling my leg.
GMAN
QUOTE (feistyirishbabe @ Oct 25 2005, 04:11 PM)
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Oct 25 2005, 07:29 AM)
"I'm so proud of her," said Robert Harvey, 65, her great-uncle, who owns the farm in Kitzmiller where the bear was shot. "It's good to get these kids outside, so they can really learn."
-------
"Last year, the first bear killed was a cub, and this year, the first trophy hunter was an 8-year-old girl," said Michael Markarian, executive vice president of the Humane Society of the United States. 'This is a terrible cruelty."


Mmm ya it's great to get kids outside to be kids, to run and jump and play and enjoy their childhood. Not to learn how to handle a firearm and kill animals. She's a mere child, her parents should be ashamed for encouraging her to hunt at such a young age. mad.gif

I totally agree with the statement made by the Humane Society president, it's a terrible cruelty to say the least. sad.gif
*



Just wondering FIB where were you rasied city or country?
I was rasied in the country and plinking and varmit hunting were part of my childhood.
I think it's all about the enviorment you are rasied in god knows city folks do things country folks would never think of doing. wink.gif
WVDragonlady
QUOTE (trueblue @ Oct 25 2005, 01:12 PM)
QUOTE (Heather @ Oct 25 2005, 04:21 PM)
Cubs are allowed to be killed? sad.gif


Hmmm...must have been a White Sox fan!
*




STOP HIJCAKING THE THREAD. wacko.gif laugh.gif
BMIC
So what's the penalty for truancy these days? Must not be any, or she shouldn't have admitted it openly. Or maybe she and her dad just think they're above the law? Couldn't she have done this on a weekend when she wasn't legally supposed to be in school?
Mcgee
BMic, You have it all wrong. That part of the state dosen`t mind kids going out hunting during a school week. It`s part of the local thing up that way. Deer season will have kids off of school also. Country living at it`s best.
What about all of the kids going to a baseball play off games in the big cities?
Same thing.
Snoopy
QUOTE (LOOKY LOU @ Oct 25 2005, 11:34 AM)
Crows are the Mexican National Bird and illegal to shoot under a treaty.
*


Looky, you have no clue what you're talking about.

FIB, you don't either. There was no cruelty involved, and very likely her parents did not have to "encourage" her to hunt any more than many parents have to encourage their kids to play baseball, soccer, or "house". At age 8 I used to go along with my Dad to hunt small game with only my spring-type Daisy BB gun along, so I had almost zero chance of actually bagging any game, but you couldn't have kept me back for nothing. I loved it. Likely this girl did, too, or else she'd not have been out in the wet and cold at daybreak - school is much easier unless you have a passion for it.
BMIC
QUOTE (trueblue @ Oct 25 2005, 02:06 PM)
However, hunting may be viewed as controversial whereas baseball (umpiring not withstanding) is not a very controversial family activity. 
*


WTF? Hunting is an educational activity. Baseball is just plain goofing off, and should be punished.
BMIC
QUOTE (GMAN @ Oct 25 2005, 01:06 PM)
god knows city folks do things country folks would never think of doing.
*

You sure got THAT right! But I digress...
Snoopy
Not so fast, TB. A vacation may be approved in advance and considered an approved absence.
Snoopy
There is no reason or basis for any "heat". Vacation leave is routinely approved for students who are not in grade trouble etc. for vacation trips to Disney, or to visit Granny, gon on a cruise, etc. and so there is no reason hunting should not be considered just as legit a trip.

Sports team players are routinely allowed to miss classes to play, prepare for, or travel to games.

Waaay back in my day, I'd ask for my school work in advance cuz I knew I was gonna be out for a few days at deer season-- either approved or otherwise -- and got little hassle about it. Usually on the first day of squirrel and rabbit season we'd be out and come in the next day with a "sick" note and the teachers would ask how hunting was -- they had no problem as long as we made up our work.
sheash
Here's my thoughts on the whole mess:

1. If the successful hunter had been an 8-yr old BOY, nobody would have given it a second thought;

2. If she's got good grades, the school would have let it go, but now that it's made the newspapers, the school will feel that they HAVE to discipline her;

3. The animal rights people are going to hunt her and her family down and harass the heck out of them; and

4. They are going to rue the day that they allowed this story to become public knowledge.
Naomi
They just did a report on this little girl on ESPN...she's made the big time!
Snoopy
Anyone wanna bet on the over/under of 7 days for how soon we see an anti-hunter/animal rights nut like Randy Breeden go ballistic in an HM editorial over this? rolleyes.gif I'll bet on under.
feistyirishbabe
QUOTE (GMAN @ Oct 25 2005, 01:06 PM)
Just wondering FIB where were you rasied city or country?
I was rasied in the country and plinking and varmit hunting were part of my childhood.
I think it's all about the enviorment you are rasied in god knows city folks do things country folks would never think of doing. wink.gif


Half and half, I grew up in H-town until I was in the 4th grade and then we moved to Sharpsburg and I lived there until I moved here to KY.
I agree it has alot to do with the environment you grow up in. My Dad never owned a gun with the exception of a pellet gun he used for the groundhogs that would burrow under our shed and reek havoc on our garden. I have always been a big animal lover, wild and domestic. I don't agree with hunting and certainly don't understand how it's acceptable to allow children to participate.
Snoopy
FIB,

Trying to learn about you and your opinions.

Are you a vegetarian?

Do you kill mice or rats if they are in your house?

Do you have any realization of how hunters' billions of dollars have saved many species, even non-game species, and set aside many thousands of acres of wildlife habitat?

Can you understand that most hunters love the game they hunt - so they're animal lovers too, and how not bagging any game does not make it an unsuccessful hunt?

Can you explain how hunting harms children?

Can you explain how you would propose to control deer populations w/o hunting?
feistyirishbabe
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Oct 25 2005, 02:00 PM)
Looky, you have no clue what you're talking about.

FIB, you don't either.  There was no cruelty involved, and very likely her parents did not have to "encourage" her to hunt any more than many parents have to encourage their kids to play baseball, soccer, or "house".  At age 8 I used to go along with my Dad to hunt small game with only my spring-type Daisy BB gun along, so I had almost zero chance of actually bagging any game, but you couldn't have kept me back for nothing.  I loved it.  Likely this girl did, too, or else she'd not have been out in the wet and cold at daybreak - school is much easier unless you have a passion for it.

There was no cruelty involved? Hunting isn't cruel?
If you live in the boonies and need to hunt to provide food for your family then great, more power to you. To hunt for the mere "sport" is disgusting, yeah it's so great that this lil' girl will now have a bear rug on her bedroom floor blink.gif
"Encourage" was the wrong choice of wording, her parents obviously had some influence on her to even have the desire to hunt. If she grew up in a family with no hunters would she still have had such a strong interest? I doubt it...
Snoopy
QUOTE (feistyirishbabe @ Oct 27 2005, 01:26 PM)
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Oct 25 2005, 02:00 PM)
Looky, you have no clue what you're talking about.

FIB, you don't either.  There was no cruelty involved, and very likely her parents did not have to "encourage" her to hunt any more than many parents have to encourage their kids to play baseball, soccer, or "house".  At age 8 I used to go along with my Dad to hunt small game with only my spring-type Daisy BB gun along, so I had almost zero chance of actually bagging any game, but you couldn't have kept me back for nothing.  I loved it.  Likely this girl did, too, or else she'd not have been out in the wet and cold at daybreak - school is much easier unless you have a passion for it.

There was no cruelty involved? Hunting isn't cruel?
If you live in the boonies and need to hunt to provide food for your family then great, more power to you. To hunt for the mere "sport" is disgusting, yeah it's so great that this lil' girl will now have a bear rug on her bedroom floor blink.gif
"Encourage" was the wrong choice of wording, her parents obviously had some influence on her to even have the desire to hunt. If she grew up in a family with no hunters would she still have had such a strong interest? I doubt it...
*



Interesting how you dodged my other questions. Lotta that going around. laugh.gif

Lemme limit it to just one -- why, exactly, is "sport" hunting disgusting? Can you give a reasoned argument, with facts?

What most non-hunters don't know is that without "sport" hunting, many species in many countries would be virtually extinct these days. The revenues from sport hunting keep many game and non-game animals around. In the US alone there are many more deer these days than when the pilgrims landed, and hunters play a vital role in maintaining healthy herds. Wild turkey were brought back from near extinction by hunting revenues. In Africa, there likely would be very few acres of land left for wild animals of any kind if not for the revenue that sport hunting provides. Some of their biggest game reserves were founded by hunters, such as the Selous game reserve.

How much do most anti-hunters donate for land and wildlife preservation? rolleyes.gif
WVDragonlady
My 5 acres are wildlife preserves.Theres water(creek) natural habitats to live in and plenty of walnut,oak,and pines for them to eat the nuts( and i think I have a pawpaw tree,but I'm not sure),and wild raspberries.grasses in my meadow and all the scraps(peelings) I throw out from cooking.
Like I've said. i don't care if you hunt.just not on my land. I don't understand the "disgusting" part either,but hey, it's her opinion,so whatever.
Heather
I can see what she's saying about it being disgusting. Killing anything is pretty disgusting. I wouldn't feel good about taking anything's last breath away. It seems so violent and upsetting.
peacefrog
I don't want to put words in FIB's mouth, but maybe she means it's personally disgusting to her.

I mean... that's how I feel about it. Personally, I can't see myself ever killing another creature unless it's a life or death situation. (Or it's a zombie/werewolf/vampire. I mean... it is Halloween.) wink.gif

But I don't find hunters themselves disgusting (assuming, as I mentioned earlier, that they eat their kill--or at least give it to someone to eat--and don't just scrap off the skin/fur and discard the carcass.)

If you're gonna eat an animal, the least you can do is kill it yourself, I think.
Heather
But there is plinking though, right? Just taking shots at those animals considered "vermin" like groundhogs, chipmunks, prairie dogs, etc. My impression is that they shoot them and leave them where they lie.
peacefrog
I knew guys in high school who used to stop their cars when they saw stray cats, pull out their guns and take shots at them. And I'm pretty sure they weren't eating kitty stew. mad.gif
Udmas
So is everybody, that finds it disgusting to kill an animal, a vegetarian?
peacefrog
Yes, I'm a vegetarian. rolleyes.gif

No, I don't wear leather.

Yes, I have a life. rolleyes.gif
WVDragonlady
QUOTE (peacefrog @ Oct 27 2005, 09:48 PM)
No, I don't wear leather.


*



Not even for the hubby?! wink.gif tongue.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
peacefrog
QUOTE (WVDragonlady @ Oct 28 2005, 11:46 AM)
QUOTE (peacefrog @ Oct 27 2005, 09:48 PM)


No, I don't wear leather.


*



Not even for the hubby?! wink.gif tongue.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
*




LOL... just PLeather... LOL tongue.gif
Snoopy
QUOTE (Heather @ Oct 27 2005, 04:24 PM)
But there is plinking though, right?  Just taking shots at those animals considered "vermin" like groundhogs, chipmunks, prairie dogs, etc.  My impression is that they shoot them and leave them where they lie.
*


Well, I consider plinking shooting at cans, targets, etc. but, terminology aside, you are correct. I, and many others, shoot groundhogs and crows, occasionally blackbirds, and leave them in the field. Just like the mouse I caught in a trap today and tossed out into the field beside my house. Most often, buzzards, crows, foxes, skunks, etc. make a meal out of them, and they gotta eat, too.

I believe MD even offers a bounty on nutria -- a large, ratlike critter found around the bay that is causing environmental havoc. I doubt anyone but other critters eats them.

One thing we need to remember is that everything dies. In the wild, death is not often the sudden, painless, "passing away peacefully in their sleep" kinda experience that animal-lovers often seem to believe in. Often they die long, lingering, painful death from things like starvation, disease, cold, injury, or being eaten alive by a predator. Some predators (other than man) also kill for the apparent "sport" of it because they kill prey animals and don't eat them. Ma Nature can be what we consider to be very cruel. Death by bullet is most often more quick, clean, and "humane" than the alternative ("natural death").
peacefrog
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Oct 28 2005, 01:38 PM)
Death by bullet is most often more quick, clean, and "humane" than the alternative ("natural death").


I think the point here, for people who oppose "plinking" animals (rather than cans), is not whether or not the death is humane: it's about taking a life unnecessarily. By killing an animal with a bullet, you've just cut it's life short.

In terms of silly but parallel hypothetical: Say you are about to be let loose in a wild, untamed jungle full of lions and tigers and bears oh my (given no weapons, no tools... naked as a jay bird). The person who has let you loose says this to you: Either I can shoot you in the head right now in a nice, clean, humane kill... or you can take your chances with the predators. Which one would you choose?

The big difference, of course, is that we don't stop the ask the rat before we shoot.
sheash
We have a bear rug, and we ate that bear. I will never eat another bear again in my life - I thought the flavor was nasty - way too strong. However, I don't have a problem with hunting, as long as the food is eaten. Some people hunt and don't eat the meat but donate it to groups who feed the homeless, so I have no problem with that, either.

I do have a problem with poachers and people who only "wing" the animal so that it goes into the woods to die a horrible death. We've had one hanging out in the field next to our house for almost a week now - part of it's jaw is blown away. You can tell she's sick and weak, but you know you'll never catch her.

She needs to be shot, but because of the "adventures" of one local poacher, our area is visited regularly by the Game Warden. He's never around when that same guy is out poaching still, but if my husband was to shoot that poor deer, I guarantee you the Game Warden would be nearby.
Snoopy
Sheash,

Please do not compare poachers to hunters. Would you lump together cops and robbers simply because they both carry handguns? blink.gif

Occasionally even the most careful hunter will "wing one" and only wound it. The ethical hunter tries his/her best to prevent this and to follow-up the animal if possible. But just as the driver of a car striking a deer did not intend it to run off injured, neither does the hunter.

BTW -- if I were you I'd call the game warden or cops and tell them of the situation witht he wounded deer and say you're gonna put the deer out of its misery and likely they will say okay. If not, tell them what publicity you will give them letting the deer suffer unnecessarily over technicalities. biggrin.gif
Snoopy
As usual, TB, you really bring enlightenment to the discussion. rolleyes.gif
feistyirishbabe
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Oct 27 2005, 01:20 PM)
FIB,

Trying to learn about you and your opinions.

Are you a vegetarian?

Do you kill mice or rats if they are in your house?

Do you have any realization of how hunters' billions of dollars have saved many species, even non-game species, and set aside many thousands of acres of wildlife habitat? 

Can you understand that most hunters love the game they hunt - so they're animal lovers too, and how not bagging any game does not make it an unsuccessful hunt? 

Can you explain how hunting harms children?

Can you explain how you would propose to control deer populations w/o hunting?
*

I have tried the vegetarian route, I currently eat chicken and fish on occasion.

Thankfully I have never had a mouse or :::shudder::: a rat in my home. If I ever do I would try to find a humane way to get it outta my home.

Yes I know about wildlife habitats and game reserves, however it does not change my opinion of hunting.

No I can not understand how hunters could be animal lovers. Explain to me how you can kill something you love.

I would not say that hunting harms children, I simply do not feel that it's best for them. At a young age they shouldn't be handling firearms and killing innocent creatures.
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