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BMIC
For any who want evidence of the raging media bias, just look at the coverage of the Samuel Alito nomination. All of the flaming Liberal media outlets are painting him as the replacement for O'Connor. Talk about spin! The TRUTH is that the far too liberal Justice Roberts was O'Connors' replacement, and Bush screwed his Conservative constituency by elevating him to the position of Chief Justice.

This guy is Rehnquist's replacement, or at least we hope he is. Replacing a staunch conservative with a staunch conservative, after having replaced so-called "moderate" O'Connor with the far-too-moderate Roberts, is simply preserving the status quo. Once Alito is confirmed, conservatives will have gained nothing, and in fact we've already lost something in that Roberts was inappropriately elevated.

It just kills me how the media is spinning this thing so blatantly, and even more sad is that most people probably don't even notice it! O'Connor has already been replaced. What we're looking for now is somebody to replace the ultra-conservative Rehnquist, and nobody who is soft on baby-murdering nor sodomists "rights" will do.
Heather
QUOTE
nor sodomists "rights" will do

Not going to stick it to the lesbians too, B?

(Look TB, a pun. biggrin.gif )
tattoomeb
QUOTE (BMIC @ Oct 31 2005, 11:13 AM)
For any who want evidence of the raging media bias, just look at the coverage of the Samuel Alito nomination. All of the flaming Liberal media outlets are painting him as the replacement for  O'Connor. Talk about spin! The TRUTH is that the far too liberal Justice Roberts was O'Connors' replacement, and Bush screwed his Conservative constituency by elevating him to the position of Chief Justice.

This guy is Rehnquist's replacement, or at least we hope he is. Replacing a staunch conservative with a staunch conservative, after having replaced so-called "moderate" O'Connor with the far-too-moderate Roberts, is simply preserving the status quo. Once Alito is confirmed, conservatives will have gained nothing, and in fact we've already lost something in that Roberts was inappropriately elevated.

It just kills me how the media is spinning this thing so blatantly, and even more sad is that most people probably don't even notice it! O'Connor has already been replaced. What we're looking for now is somebody to replace the ultra-conservative Rehnquist, and nobody who is soft on baby-murdering nor sodomists "rights" will do.
*


I don't really see what you are complaining about. Roberts is much more conservative than O'Connor. Maybe not enough for you. And this new guys nick name is Scalito he is ultra conservative. The only reason the MSM is saying it is a O'Connor replacement is cause W elevated Roberts to chief. Thats Bush's fault not the MSM's not that I am defending the media because they do suck.

If you want to look at it by your side gaining or losing the right is up one on this fight. The court if Alito is confirmed will be a lot more conservative than before. Alito is probably even more conservative than Rehnquist ever was.

Conservatives don't really have any room to complain with this new nomination. They forced Bush to scrap Miers and got what they wanted an ultra conserv. While I may not agree with this guys views at least he is a judge and competent. Miers was an imbicile and never should have been appointed she had no qualifications besides being a crony. Aside from that I would have liked to see the position go to a woman to maintain a gender balance. There are certainly many qualified women out there.
Snoopy
QUOTE (tattoomeb @ Oct 31 2005, 12:56 PM)
Aside from that I would have liked to see the position go to a woman to maintain a gender balance. 
*


I disagree on this point. Balance schmalance. Pick the best person for the job, period. Whether they are male, female, black, white, Latino, or whatever.
Yossarian
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Oct 31 2005, 12:06 PM)
QUOTE (tattoomeb @ Oct 31 2005, 12:56 PM)
Aside from that I would have liked to see the position go to a woman to maintain a gender balance. 
*


I disagree on this point. Balance schmalance. Pick the best person for the job, period. Whether they are male, female, black, white, Latino, or whatever.
*



would that go for gays and athiests? huh.gif

{sorry, I'm still not believing that Anderson Cooper and Shepherd Smith of CNN were outed} sad.gif
tattoomeb
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Oct 31 2005, 12:06 PM)
QUOTE (tattoomeb @ Oct 31 2005, 12:56 PM)
Aside from that I would have liked to see the position go to a woman to maintain a gender balance. 
*


I disagree on this point. Balance schmalance. Pick the best person for the job, period. Whether they are male, female, black, white, Latino, or whatever.
*



I do not agree with these kinds of things in most cases you are right hire the right person regardless of race or sex.

But in this case I disagree. There are women out there that are equally or better qualified than Alito. In this case being that it is an appointment to such an important position I think it would be best to keep some diversity. Really I can't see why he didn't nominate a latino just to be first to have done it. I am sure he could have found an equally qualified latino. SCOTUS is something that should represent the country as a whole. It should include as many diversly qualified individuals as possible.
BMIC
If you want to choose a woman, that's fine. In that case I'll take Janet Parshall over Harriet Miers any day of the week.

But the whole "replace a woman with a woman" thing is sexist, so forget it.

This Alito guy looks like a good choice. If Ginsberg got in, there's no reason why he shouldn't.
tattoomeb
QUOTE (BMIC @ Oct 31 2005, 12:25 PM)
If you want to choose a woman, that's fine. In that case I'll take Janet Parshall over Harriet Miers any day of the week.

But the whole "replace a woman with a woman" thing is sexist, so forget it.

This Alito guy looks like a good choice. If Ginsberg got in, there's no reason why he shouldn't.
*


Never heard of her. But looking over her web page she has less qualification than Miers. She may share more of your views but her career list says nothing of anything law orienented or judicial.

Saying you have to replace a woman with a woman could be considered sexist maybe but, IMO, it would be for diversity's sake not just cause O'Connor was female.
BMIC
Yeah RIGHT!

"Diversity's sake" = liberal code for reverse discrimination. Politically correct racism/sexism.
BMIC
QUOTE (tattoomeb @ Oct 31 2005, 12:56 PM)
Roberts is much more conservative than O'Connor.
*

Okay, Mr. Rogers, I get it: welcome to the land of make-believe.

Keep spinning, and maybe some day someone will believe you. But it won't be me.
tattoomeb
QUOTE (BMIC @ Oct 31 2005, 12:47 PM)
Yeah RIGHT!

"Diversity's sake" =  liberal code for reverse discrimination. Politically correct racism/sexism.
*



Not at all.

Don't you believe that women should have an equal say?

Whats wrong with wanting a diversified court that represents all Americans in thought, race and gender? There is no agenda there, if it is done without destroying integrity by appointing a equally qualified individual who is a woman there should be no problem. With all the women involved in law and judicial activities it could easily have been done.

Don't get me wrong Alito is far from someone I would appoint without even getting into gender. But I am sure that comes as no suprise to you.
tattoomeb
QUOTE (BMIC @ Oct 31 2005, 12:50 PM)
QUOTE (tattoomeb @ Oct 31 2005, 12:56 PM)
Roberts is much more conservative than O'Connor.
*

Okay, Mr. Rogers, I get it: welcome to the land of make-believe.

Keep spinning, and maybe some day someone will believe you. But it won't be me.
*




I think he is definitly more conservative than O'Connor. If you do not tough the man you appointed appointed him. That is something the Repubs will have to deal with. I am not spinning neither of these candidates is left enough for me so I have nothing to gain either way. IMO, between Roberts and Alito the Conservs have nothing to complain about. That is if Alito is confirmed. I think he probably will be but not without a fight.
Snoopy
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Oct 31 2005, 01:16 PM)
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Oct 31 2005, 12:06 PM)
QUOTE (tattoomeb @ Oct 31 2005, 12:56 PM)
Aside from that I would have liked to see the position go to a woman to maintain a gender balance. 
*


I disagree on this point. Balance schmalance. Whether they are male, female, black, white, Latino, or whatever.
*



would that go for gays and athiests? huh.gif

{sorry, I'm still not believing that Anderson Cooper and Shepherd Smith of CNN were outed} sad.gif
*



1. Let me say it again, "Pick the best person for the job, period."

2. I have no idea what you are talking about regarding "outed" people.

Tatt,

Where in the Constitution does it talk about the SC in that it "should include as many diversly qualified individuals as possible"? Apparently that is just your view, but why is the SC unique in that regard? Can you imagine the uproar if Bush had said he picked a woman or minority simply to increase SC diversity? ohmy.gif Would you pick a group of doctors and hospital staff who was gonna operate on you based on diversity or qualifications?

Well, Chucky Schumer is all upset about the new nominee, so, that is encouraging.
BMIC
Quotas, by any name, justified by whatever moronic argument you choose, are inherently racist and/or sexist.

-----

Here's a simple challenge to prove my point: I challenge anyone to find a single story in the popular media that fails to call this guy O'Connor's replacement. This is one of the most flagrant examples of media spin-doctoring that we have ever seen!

O'Connor resigned FIRST, and the FIRST replacement Justice named was someone with similarly moderate views, Roberts. Rehnquist was second to go, and he was a VERY conservative Justice, and now Bush has nominated a similarly strong conservative, to replace HIM.

The liberals and their media puppets are very obviously, blatantly trying to FORCE us all to compare him to O'Connor, which is just plain wrong.

As for diversity and balance, to heck with that! To the winner go the spoils. When libs were in control, they got to name their liberal Justices. Now it's our turn, and we reserve the right to shove a fully-qualified conservative or two down YOUR throats. Seeking to appoint a female or a racial minority JUST for the sake of their sex and/or race would be the kind of publicity stunt I'd expect of a Democrat. The racist, sexist democrats may get their turn again one day... but this isn't it.
tattoomeb
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Oct 31 2005, 01:24 PM)
Tatt,

Where in the Constitution does it talk about the SC in that it "should include as many diversly qualified individuals as possible"?  Apparently that is just your view, but why is the SC unique in that regard?  Can you imagine the uproar if Bush had said he picked a woman or minority simply to increase SC diversity?  ohmy.gif  Would you pick a group of doctors and hospital staff who was gonna operate on you based on diversity or qualifications?
*


The Constitution says for the people by the people all should be represented. The SCOTUS shapes the laws that we are all to be governed by, IMO, that means that we should all be represented in the court. If Bush picked a woman or minority who was as qualified as anyone else and said it was to maintain diversity in the court that governs our lands I can't believe anyone would have a problem with that. Actually I concede obviously the conservatives would have a problem with that by evidence of this thread.

The hospital doctor thing is irrevelant to this conversation they are 2 different things. Doctors do not shape the laws of the country.
tattoomeb
QUOTE (BMIC @ Oct 31 2005, 01:40 PM)
Quotas, by any name, justified by whatever moronic argument you choose, are inherently racist and/or sexist.

-----

Here's a simple challenge to prove my point: I challenge anyone to find a single story in the popular media that fails to call this guy O'Connor's replacement. This is one of the most flagrant examples of media spin-doctoring that we have ever seen!


Who f**King cares!

Does it really matter who he replaces? NO

Roberts whether you like it or not replaced Rehnquist as chief, end of story. O'connor's spot is the one now considered vacant that Alito will(maybe) fill. If the media did say he was repalcing Rehnquist would it change anything? NO

What do you think the media or anyone else is going to gain or lose by calling him O'Connor's replacement rather than Rehnquists?
Snoopy
QUOTE (trueblue @ Oct 31 2005, 03:38 PM)
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Oct 31 2005, 05:06 PM)
QUOTE (tattoomeb @ Oct 31 2005, 12:56 PM)
Aside from that I would have liked to see the position go to a woman to maintain a gender balance. 
*


I disagree on this point. Balance schmalance. Pick the best person for the job, period. Whether they are male, female, black, white, Latino, or whatever.
*



laugh.gif If the short list was five women Snoopy would be yelling Balance!

Whatever happened to the cry of majority rules!

Fifty percent of the population is female but of course the "best person" can't be found among female candidates. rolleyes.gif
*



So you're calling me a liar, TB. Okay. I just consider the source.

Is it perhaps discrimination that there are not 50% women in the NFL as well?

For the record, I did not say that I felt that Alito was the best person available. I don't know if he is better than, say, Janice Rogers Brown. I simply said the best person should be picked, regardless of sex, race, etc. And despite your carping, Bush did pick a woman over this guy, and picks many women for high posts.

Of course, Clinton liked women as well... laugh.gif
Udmas
biggrin.gif What a great day!

Bush nominates the ultra-conservative (drum roll please) Samuel Alito Jr.

I guess I better go buy a box of tissues for the liberals.

biggrin.gif Oh what a great day! tongue.gif
BMIC
Since my purpose has been opposing the ridiculous spin the media circus (and that moron TB) is putting on this, it's only fair that I point out what at least one Washington Post reporter has said: Alito is far from the radical conservative he is being portrayed as. He is in fact well respected by members of both parties, and sailed into the Court of Appeals with nary a hint of trouble. The only people calling him names are the liberal media and fringe groups. Truth be told, he gets widespread praise from Dems and Republicans alike.

Oh by the way, trueblue - I've decided to write to your employer volunteering your resignation, to have you immediately replaced by a hispanic, in the interest of "balance" and "diversity". I knew you wouldn't mind. tongue.gif
Idiot
QUOTE (BMIC @ Nov 1 2005, 07:11 AM)
Since my purpose has been opposing the ridiculous spin the media circus (and that moron TB) is putting on this...


Congratulations tb! One more rung up the IQ ladder and you'll be an idiot! laugh.gif

Sorry, I couldn't resist. smile.gif

For the record, with the little I know about Alito I have no problems with him.
Snoopy
QUOTE (trueblue @ Oct 31 2005, 05:13 PM)
Are you saying that the purpose of the NFL is the same as the Supreme Court?  rolleyes.gif

*


Sure -- at least in regards to the referees! That's it -- you need to contact the NFL Commissioner and demand equality for women among NFL referees!

Of course, if we're talkin' the NBA the parallels are even greater. How many women are on that court? ohmy.gif biggrin.gif
sheash
I heard on the radio this morning that the Dems are threatening to filibuster, and the Republicans are threatening to do away with the filibuster, AGAIN. Congress as a whole needs to understand that they are there to act in our best interests, not to promote their party's agenda. Every human being has a personal opinion, but what I want to see is somebody who can put their personal opinion aside long enough to interpret the law. That means interpret the laws that are on the books, not interpret them in accordance with your party's or other groups' opinions.

What I'm about to say won't be popular with our friend B, but abortion is legal, and I don't want a judge who is going to say "well, folks like B don't believe in abortion, so I need to do something to bring this to an end." Instead, if a person wants an abortion and can't afford one so she's trying to force the government to pay for it even though there is a law that says gov't funds can't pay for it (an example), then I expect that judge to say "No Way the way you want to do it, but if you can come up with the money for it yourself, be my guest".

That's what I expect out of a nominee.
Idiot
QUOTE (sheash @ Nov 1 2005, 02:23 PM)
What I'm about to say won't be popular with our friend B, but abortion is legal, and I don't want a judge who is going to say "well, folks like B don't believe in abortion, so I need to do something to bring this to an end." 


I wouldn't worry too much about abortion ever being illegal in this country. BTW, it wasn't illegal before Roe v. Wade either. Abortion from a political standpoint is nothing more than a wedge issue for elections. The same as gun control, flag burning, and now same sex marriage.

If the fundies ever get the votes on the Supreme Court to overturn it, which I doubt, then it will become a state decision. They will need a constitutional amendment against it which will require a two thirds vote by Congress and also must be ratified by 75% of the states. For the last 35 years a solid 65% of this country has supported a woman's right to choose.

Personally, I'd love to see them get so far as to overturn Roe. Then maybe those 35 million women who are over the age of 18 and who did not bother to vote in 2004 will get off their @sses and get involved. That's a sleeping giant the Republicans don't want to wake.

There are plenty of Republicans who know this, they just can't say it. You may even see a few Republican senators from blue states, like Chaffee, who are up for re-election in '06, or Spector who is pro-choice vote against Alito.


smile.gif
Snoopy
Oh yeah, all 35 million are pro-abortion, right? rolleyes.gif Shakin' in my shoes.

Abortion is legal in certain circumstances, but IMO the SC had no business stating such in Roe because it is not directly addressed in the Constitution in a way that clearly should make it legal, therefore it should be an issue for state legislatures to address.

And if you think gun control is nothing more than a "wedge issue" like flag burning, you, IMO, are delusional.

BTW -- I do not support a constitutional amendment against flag burning.
Udmas
QUOTE (sheash @ Nov 1 2005, 02:23 PM)
I heard on the radio this morning that the Dems are threatening to filibuster, and the Republicans are threatening to do away with the filibuster, AGAIN.  Congress as a whole needs to understand that they are there to act in our best interests, not to promote their party's agenda.  Every human being has a personal opinion, but what I want to see is somebody who can put their personal opinion aside long enough to interpret the law.  That means interpret the laws that are on the books, not interpret them in accordance with your party's or other groups' opinions.

What I'm about to say won't be popular with our friend B, but abortion is legal, and I don't want a judge who is going to say "well, folks like B don't believe in abortion, so I need to do something to bring this to an end."  Instead, if a person wants an abortion and can't afford one so she's trying to force the government to pay for it even though there is a law that says gov't funds can't pay for it (an example), then I expect that judge to say "No Way the way you want to do it, but if you can come up with the money for it yourself, be my guest". 

That's what I expect out of a nominee.
*


The democrats are threatening a fillibuster again I would think they would at least wait until the hearings. But as you said that wouldn't help promote their party's agenda.

What I would expect out of a nominee is a strict interpretation of the constitution.
Udmas
QUOTE
"If confirmed, Alito could very well fundamentally alter the balance of the court and push it dangerously to the right," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts Democrat.
    Republicans pounced on the statement, comparing it with Mr. Kennedy's statement 15 years ago during Judge Alito's confirmation hearing to the 3rd Circuit.
    "You have obviously had a very distinguished record, and I certainly commend you for long service in the public interest," Mr. Kennedy said then. "I think it is a very commendable career, and I am sure you will have a successful one as a judge."
QUOTE
Alito already has been unanimously confirmed by the Senate, once as U.S. attorney and once to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit


Whats the differance between then and now?
Idiot
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Nov 1 2005, 04:09 PM)
Oh yeah, all 35 million are pro-abortion, right?  rolleyes.gif  Shakin' in my shoes. 

Abortion is legal in certain circumstances, but IMO the SC had no business stating such in Roe because it is not directly addressed in the Constitution in a way that clearly should make it legal, therefore it should be an issue for state legislatures to address. 

And if you think gun control is nothing more than a "wedge issue" like flag burning, you, IMO, are delusional. 

BTW -- I do not support a constitutional amendment against flag burning.
*


It's closer to 80% support with women, though it has dropped a few percent in 3 decades. That equates to 28 million pro-choice and 7 million pro-life for a net gain of 21 million votes for the Dems. That's over a 15% swing, even Diebold can't correct for that much. laugh.gif

You're right about the SC being out of bounds on Roe. Just like they had no authority to over rule the unanamous decision of the FLA SC involving a FLA election. In both cases I think they were trying to avoid what they saw as a crisis situation.

Snoop, you know I like guns and I may have told you this before but when Clinton was elected in '92 my brothers and friends in KY were totally convinced that by the end of his first term most of their guns would be confiscated. That's how good the Republican campaign was there. They were furious and hiding them and all kinds of crazy stuff. We even made bets on which guns they'd have to give up. That reminds me, I never collected on those bets. That's not to say that there aren't some people out there that would like take our guns, just like there are people out there that would change some other things if they could.

I don't support a constitutional amendment for any of those issues. The constitution specifically protects free speech, the right to own a gun, and has never discriminated against any group of people for any reason. Why start now?

smile.gif
Idiot
QUOTE (Udmas @ Nov 1 2005, 05:50 PM)
Whats the differance between then and now?


Kennedy has had a few thousand more vodka martinis?

laugh.gif laugh.gif
Udmas
Yeh Idiot Kennedy flip flopping all over the place is real funny.

Kennedy= wacko.gif
Idiot
Aside from the abortion issue I'm wondering what other questions, if any, people may have for Judge Alito. I'll start it off with this one.

If you are confirmed and at some point in the future President Bush was on trial for a some crime, possibly one committed while he was in office, and his case came before the SC, would you recuse yourself?

Any others? I have a few more but I'll give everyone else a chance first.

smile.gif
Snoopy
QUOTE (Idiot @ Nov 2 2005, 11:45 AM)
Aside from the abortion issue I'm wondering what other questions, if any, people may have for Judge Alito. I'll start it off with this one.

If you are confirmed and at some point in the future President Bush was on trial for a some crime, possibly one committed while he was in office, and his case came before the SC, would you recuse yourself?

Any others? I have a few more but I'll give everyone else a chance first.

smile.gif
*


So any SC justice appointed by a Prez should automatically recuse themself from any case involving that Prez? BS. My answer would be "NO".

And, BTW, the question is based on wishful thinking my radical leftists that goes back years. As my Pappy used to say, "Wish in one hand, $hit in the other, and see which one gets full the quickest". laugh.gif
Idiot
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Nov 2 2005, 11:33 AM)
As my Pappy used to say, "Wish in one hand, $hit in the other, and see which one gets full the quickest".  laugh.gif
*


laugh.gif laugh.gif

I think everyone's Pappy must have said that Snoop laugh.gif

So does that mean that you don't have any questions for him?

BTW, I didn't say what I thought the answer to my question should be.

wink.gif
Udmas
Answer--No

Question,

What are your thoughts on the first amendment, specifically pertaining to religion?
Idiot
QUOTE (Udmas @ Nov 2 2005, 06:06 PM)
Answer--No

Question,
 
What are your thoughts on the first amendment, specifically pertaining to religion?
*


That's a good question for 2 reasons.

1) I'd like to hear his "interpretation" on the subject in general.

2) More importantly, how he answers that will tell you immediately if he's going to be straight forward with his other answers. After all it's only 16 words.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

It doesn't leave much room for interpretation in my book. From what I've read about him so far I expect a short but direct response without addressing the "seperation of church and state" argument, which works just fine for me. After all, the constitution doesn't address it either.

Here's how he ruled on two cases.

QUOTE
Religious expression

Does a police-department policy barring officers from wearing beards violate the free-exercise clause of the First Amendment? More specifically, does the First Amendment bar a police department from firing two Muslim officers who refused to shave their beards for religious reasons? That was the issue raised in Fraternal Order of Police v. City of Newark (1999). The court, in an opinion authored by Alito, concluded that such laws violated the free-exercise clause.

The Newark, N.J., police policy granted exemptions for medical reasons, though denied them for religious ones. The 3rd Circuit held that the police department had no serious reason for not allowing a religious exemption. “Because the Department makes exemptions from its policy for secular reasons and has not offered any substantial justification for refusing to provide similar treatment for officers who are required to wear beards for religious reasons,” wrote Alito, “we conclude that the Department's policy violates the First Amendment.”

Distinguishing the Supreme Court’s holding in Employment Division v. Smith (1988), which limited free-exercise rights, Judge Alito declared: “We conclude that the Department's decision to provide medical exemptions while refusing religious exemptions is sufficiently suggestive of discriminatory intent so as to trigger heightened scrutiny.” In that respect, he concluded that “neither the police departments interest in a ‘monolithic, highly disciplined force,’ or its need to provide a "public sense of security in having readily identifiable and trusted public servants,” were sufficiently compelling to justify a policy that effectively suppressed “manifestations of the religious diversity that the First Amendment safeguards.”

Alito's protectiveness of religious expression has held whether viewed through the prism of the free-exercise clause or the free-speech clause. In an en banc dissenting opinion in C.H. v. Oliva (3rd Cir., 2000), he chastised his colleagues for “duck[ing] the issue” and not addressing the underlying First Amendment issues in the alleged censorship of a kindergartener’s Thanksgiving poster because of its religious content. While the majority said the complaint was inadequate and needed to be amended, Alito opined that the complaint adequately stated a claim for viewpoint discrimination. “It follows that public school authorities may not discriminate against student speech based on its religious content if the discrimination cannot pass strict scrutiny,” he wrote. “School officials are not permitted to discriminate against student expression simply because of its religious character.”


I would have ruled the same on both.

That last one is good news because it appears that while at least some, if not all, the other judges in effect avoided ruling on a controversial issue directly because of a technicality in the wording of the complaint, he didn't. I like that.

I mean give me a break, it's was a kindergartener's poster for God's sake. Pun intended. laugh.gif
BMIC
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Nov 1 2005, 05:09 PM)
Oh yeah, all 35 million are pro-abortion, right?   rolleyes.gif   Shakin' in my shoes. 

Yes that is the faulty assumption the mainstream media wants us all to make. If you have a vagina, you must be a baby-murdering slut and a peacenik.

Just like the myth that NOW speaks for women as a whole, and not the minority who happen to agree with their radically offbeat, far-outside-the-mainstream, anti-family views.

Ann Coulter gets a lot of press, but I would also point to the likes of Beverly LaHaye and Concerned Women for America.
Idiot
QUOTE (BMIC @ Nov 4 2005, 01:29 PM)
Just like the myth that NOW speaks for women as a whole...


Or the myth that Fundamentalists speak for Christians as a whole.

I agree with your statement and you yourself have proven mine right here in these forums many times. Both groups are extremists and both use radical methods that are offensive to most Americans. The reason they're both constantly in the media screaming about their views is because no one is listening.

The Fundies have attached themselves to the Republican Party and enabled them to win the last two elections because the rest of the country was so evenly divided. NOW is at a disadvantage because even though 65% of the country support giving women the right to choose to have an abortion, only a small percentage of that group would make that same choice. That's where you guys went wrong with Sandra Day O'Connor and where you're going wrong with Roberts and Alito.

wink.gif
tattoomeb
QUOTE (Idiot @ Nov 4 2005, 02:48 PM)
The Fundies have attached themselves to the Republican Party and enabled them to win the last two elections because the rest of the country was so evenly divided. NOW is at a disadvantage because even though 65% of the country support giving women the right to choose to have an abortion, only a small percentage of that group would make that same choice. That's where you guys went wrong with Sandra Day O'Connor and where you're going wrong with Roberts and Alito.
*



But how much do the Repubs really care for the fundies and the religious right?

QUOTE
Consider one memo highlighted in a Capitol Hill hearing Wednesday that Scanlon, a former aide to Rep. Tom DeLay, R-Tx., sent the Coushatta Tribe of Louisiana to describe his strategy for protecting the tribe's gambling business. In plain terms, Scanlon confessed the source code of recent Republican electoral victories: target religious conservatives, distract everyone else, and then railroad through complex initiatives.


"The wackos get their information through the Christian right, Christian radio, mail, the internet and telephone trees," Scanlon wrote in the memo, which was read into the public record at a hearing of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee. "Simply put, we want to bring out the wackos to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them."
Idiot
QUOTE (tattoomeb @ Nov 4 2005, 03:06 PM)
QUOTE (Idiot @ Nov 4 2005, 02:48 PM)
The Fundies have attached themselves to the Republican Party and enabled them to win the last two elections because the rest of the country was so evenly divided. NOW is at a disadvantage because even though 65% of the country support giving women the right to choose to have an abortion, only a small percentage of that group would make that same choice. That's where you guys went wrong with Sandra Day O'Connor and where you're going wrong with Roberts and Alito.
*



But how much do the Repubs really care for the fundies and the religious right?

QUOTE
Consider one memo highlighted in a Capitol Hill hearing Wednesday that Scanlon, a former aide to Rep. Tom DeLay, R-Tx., sent the Coushatta Tribe of Louisiana to describe his strategy for protecting the tribe's gambling business. In plain terms, Scanlon confessed the source code of recent Republican electoral victories: target religious conservatives, distract everyone else, and then railroad through complex initiatives.


"The wackos get their information through the Christian right, Christian radio, mail, the internet and telephone trees," Scanlon wrote in the memo, which was read into the public record at a hearing of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee. "Simply put, we want to bring out the wackos to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them."
*


"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."

laugh.gif
BMIC
Too many pagans confuse mainstream belief in what the Bible has always said with some kind of radical fundamentalism, and their media lap-dogs further try to sell the lie. But in fact, what many call right-wing religious fundamentalism is simply straightforward agreement with what the Bible just says, and not any different from what Christians have believed for centuries. It's not really "radical" or "extreme" in the slightest, except by comparison with the extremes to which the secular forces in American society have taken their perversion and depravity.

Mainstream Christian belief and the simple truths of the Bible HAVEN'T CHANGED. Most of what you would call radical fundamentalism ISN'T. What HAS changed is the degree of sickening depravity that has become "acceptable" in the minds of so many. Christian religious belief hasn't moved any more to the "right" than it has always been. It's just that the "left" has moved so much further to the "left" that mainstream, traditional Christian belief has come to seem more radical when it sheds its light on the lives of the perverted, depraved scum who choose eternal damnation over the free gift of eternal life.

Romans 1:18-32 is an increasingly apt description of secular America. Verse 32 sums it up:

"Who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

We all have a sense of right and wrong. It's just that more and more, people choose to sear their consciences and willfully defy what they know to be right, and encourage one another to do the same. The resulting moral decay and decline is obvious when you consider that the simple, clear words of the Bible haven't changed in centuries, and yet, increasingly they seem to offend people. The true radicals and extremists are NOT those on what some choose to call the "religious right".

Christians simply believe in a set of unchanging standards, and as we refuse to follow secular society as it sinks further into the depths of depravity we're seen to be increasingly different. To the point that non-Christians increasingly find it convenient to call us names (like "fundamentalist", "radical" and "extremist") in an attempt to avoid the realization that it is they who are becoming more evil, not we who are somehow becoming more righteous.

I will never apologize for my beliefs, nor adapt them in response to the increasing popularity of sin. I do not think there is anything admirable or "progressive" about the moral decline of American civilization.
tattoomeb
QUOTE (BMIC @ Nov 6 2005, 11:01 AM)
Christians simply believe in a set of unchanging standards, and as we refuse to follow secular society as it sinks further into the depths of depravity we're seen to be increasingly different. To the point that non-Christians increasingly find it convenient to call us names (like "fundamentalist", "radical" and "extremist") in an attempt to avoid the realization that it is they who are becoming more evil, not we who are somehow becoming more righteous.

I will never apologize for my beliefs, nor adapt them in response to the increasing popularity of sin. I do not think there is anything admirable or "progressive" about the moral decline of American civilization.
*


I will agree that there is "moral decline" in the world and plenty of it. How else would Bushco be able to get away even half of the stuff they have done. I also agree that that decline can play against general views of not only Christianity but all religions. To what extent is probably pretty debatable, IMO, it is small. But like all religions and walks of life Christians also have their fair share of fundamentalists, radicals and extremists. As does the left and right of this country.

I would never expect you to apologize for your beliefs or adapt them, nor would I change or adapt mine. It takes all kinds. Our beliefs are our foundations in life. It is good to exchange ideas and principles about our beliefs it forces us to think them through.

There is absolutley nothing admirable about moral decline. No matter what side of the isle our beliefs fall we should all be able to agree on simple right or wrong lines that benefit society and uphold the basic common principles of humanity.

I do however completely dissagree with your comparison of that moral decline being attributed to the "left". There are many weaknesses in our government from both sides that contribute and have contributed in the past to a decline.
Idiot
Well tatt, if you're going to be reasonable about it I'm gone. rolleyes.gif


BTW, I liked the old sig better. You pagan! laugh.gif

wink.gif
BMIC
QUOTE (tattoomeb @ Nov 7 2005, 03:47 PM)
No matter what side of the isle our beliefs fall we should all be able to agree on simple right or wrong lines that benefit society and uphold the basic common principles of humanity.


As long as those "lines" (moral standards) are what is written in the Bible I'll agree with them. Everything that is in opposition thereto I will steadfastly oppose. Which is what you should logically expect of any Christian.

I do this, believing wholeheartedly that biblical standards are in fact what is best for society and humanity at large, on the whole, in the long run, and when viewed from the proper perspective. The problem comes when people fall victim to the perverse pleasure of the day, which Christians know to be detrimental but which those with a shorter view and narrower and/or improper perspective see as harmless or in some cases even somehow admirable.
economic
Alito Hearing "Blessed"
QUOTE
Insisting that God "certainly needs to be involved" in the Supreme Court confirmation process, three Christian ministers today blessed the doors of the hearing room where Senate Judiciary Committee members will begin considering the nomination of Judge Samuel Alito on Monday.

Capitol Hill police barred them from entering the room to continue what they called a consecration service. But in a bit of one-upsmanship, the three announced that they had let themselves in a day earlier, touching holy oil to the seats where Judge Alito, the senators, witnesses, Senate staffers and the press will sit, and praying for each of the 13 committee members by name.

"We did adequately apply oil to all the seats," said the Rev. Rob Schenck, who identified himself as an evangelical Christian and as president of the National Clergy Council in Washington.
One can only shudder at the thought of what might transpire had an inadequate supply of oil been applied. In other news...WSJ reports light sweet crude holy oil is seling for $63.50 a barrel.

QUOTE (BMIC @ Oct 31 2005, 11:13 AM) *
It just kills me how the media is spinning this thing so blatantly, and even more sad is that most people probably don't even notice it! O'Connor has already been replaced. What we're looking for now is somebody to replace the ultra-conservative Rehnquist, and nobody who is soft on baby-murdering nor sodomists "rights" will do.
erm...if Roberts replaced O'Connor then why are they both serving together on the court together?


fyi - that's Sandra standing next to JR


No need stop killing yourself over it tho Biggie. Hades always awaits your fecklessness ;}
BMIC
QUOTE (economic @ Jan 9 2006, 10:43 AM) *
One can only shudder at the thought of what might transpire had an inadequate supply of oil been applied.
Leave it to you to worry about whether enough oil has been applied to the seats of your favorite congressmen. blink.gif Maybe you should head on over there with a 5-gallon pail of K-Y? I'm sure you could spare one. laugh.gif
Snoopy
Economic -- if you wanna think your sig is correct, then I can only add then that ALL liberals are either stupid or an Idiot. tongue.gif
millennium
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Jan 11 2006, 01:17 PM) *
Economic -- if you wanna think your sig is correct, then I can only add then that ALL liberals are either stupid or an Idiot. tongue.gif


Snoopy thinks HIS quotes are in the same league as John Stuart Mill! laugh.gif

Now, THAT IS stupid!
Naomi
QUOTE (millennium @ Jan 11 2006, 12:24 PM) *
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Jan 11 2006, 01:17 PM) *

Economic -- if you wanna think your sig is correct, then I can only add then that ALL liberals are either stupid or an Idiot. tongue.gif


Snoopy thinks HIS quotes are in the same league as John Stuart Mill! laugh.gif

Now, THAT IS stupid!



Millennium, you've posted twice, here and in another thread. Each of your posts have been criticizing posts by our long-time members, while not even commenting on the topic at hand. How about adding something to the discussion?
millennium
QUOTE (Naomi @ Jan 11 2006, 01:59 PM) *
Millennium, you've posted twice, here and in another thread. Each of your posts have been criticizing posts by our long-time members, while not even commenting on the topic at hand. How about adding something to the discussion?


When was the last time YOU added something to THIS discussion? cool.gif

I've been lurking at this forum and your comment about "criticizing posts by our long-time members" should really read " long-time members that YOU like" since I haven't seen you rush to the defense of every long-time member on this board. rolleyes.gif
Naomi
Just because I haven't commented on this topic, it doesn't mean I haven't been reading this thread with interest.

When one with only 3 total posts, stoops to posting only comments busting on other members or calling them names because of spelling errors, it only serves to make that person look like they have nothing better to add to the forum.

That is all...

Now back to our regularly scheduled program, already in progress!
economic
@Snoop - It was a tossup between using Mill's truism or Biggie's ode to your superior written skills...
QUOTE
Do I need to draw you a picture, dimwit? Snoopy, got any crayons? - BMIC, Dec 19 2005, 12:55 PM

@mill - Paragraph 4 of the forum terms and rules clearly states you gotta start by slagging the peons and work your way up to dissing the respectable playas.

Rev. Schenck apparently annointed Sen. Kennedy's chair with insufficient holy oil.
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