Peacefrog seems to feel that some of us don't do our research when questioning the Veg life style. But I think that given PF's tone this will be one of those discussions like my God can beat up your God. PF should post the facts they are relying on such as those on objective sites and not animal rights areas.

We raised beef cattle for 20 years and I can assure PF that we did not abuse our animals, unless providing the very best of care for them, which necessarily required handling them, as abuse. As far as environmental considerations these people seem to forget that the plains were populated with about 70 MILLOIN buffaloes in 1700. While killing them off to deprive the Indians of a major food and fiber source was vile, it was done. If it had not been done and replaced with ranches there would not be enough ariable land to raise the very crops that PF now depends on for sustinance. The migratory movements of these huge herds did more damage to the environment in 5 minutes than a responsible rancher does in a decade. There were large herds of other animals--15 MILLION antelope- Millions of elk and other large animals that if they were still of the numbers that existed in 1700 would have a much larger impact on grain agriculture than cattle and other livestock have today.

Eating meat may have an adverse impact on the general health of the human population, but you gotta die sometime and you might as well die happy.

While a discussion of the vegan lifestyle is appropriate for this forum, singling out a particular poster and criticizing their lifestyle is not.

Please refrain from this type of behavior.

POWERHOG.

Allow the kids to play.

And this is what I mean by "do your research." If you had looked into this topic at all, you would have known that the points you raised are completely irrelevant. Why? Because...



When most vegetarians refer to "animal abuse" on farms, they're talking about large-scale factory farms, not the small-scale farmer. My dad's been a dairy farmer all his life--still is. He doesn't abuse his animals, either. But, unfortunately, the small farmer is a dying breed. It's all about the big--and, IMHO, abusive--factory farms now.


When vegetarians are talking about the "environmental impact of eating meat," they aren't talking about the PAST. They're talking about the FUTURE.




When people refer to the health aspects of the vegetarian diet, they generally aren't talking about living longer. They're referring to a lesser rate of diseases like cancer, diabetes, heart disease, etc. Stuff that might not necessarily kill you, but will definitely affect your quality of life.


Your three points, dude, had absolutely nothing to do with the standard arguments of most vegetarians. At least, the vegetarians I know.

Let me repeat: Do your research first, then we'll chat. First find out what the arguments actually ARE before you start refuting them.

When and where did all this start to begin with? just wondering folks
I eat meat. Froggie don't. Who cares? I don't. I still like her and shes too pretty to boot!(hussy! )
Nothing anyone says will make me a Vegan. Who cares?

Froggie: WHAT DID YOU SAY TO SET THIS OFF NOW?!

WVD, see the Fireside Thread.

It totally wasn't me!

I mentioned that Burhans Station wasn't all that accomodating when I asked for a vegetarian meal, and all hell broke loose!

You rabble rowser!

Vegetarians are ok, it's the humanitarians ya gotta watch out for...

I'm with WVD...I eat a healthy diet which includes meat, but I don't push my lifestyle on PF or Heather, or anyone else around here. And they don't criticize me for the way I eat!

Where is Heather anyway? We need her input on this!

Me, too.

I'll eat my tofu, you guys eat your meat... and we'll all continue to enjoy each other's chat!

Heck... if you guys ever come over for a BBQ, my hubby would be happy to throw some chicken on the grill for you!

I just like to eat......anything!!

PF maybe I didn't make myself clear. We ran 600 head of brood cows in a cow calf operation. We did not abuse our animals. THe past is prologue. I meerely asked you a question concerning the very early death by veggies of Adele Davis at about 55 from an overdose veggies, fruits, nuts, flakes and grains containing pesticides. There is emperical evidence that there are not more hooved animals in North America today than there were in 1700 in fact there may be less. Cows generally walk single file and in the same place leading to activists jumping to the conclusion that the damage they do by doing so is spread out over a large area. Such a cow path can go for miles but it is only about 8 inches wide. A large herd of bison did spread out over a huge area and dug up thousands of acres when moving from place to place.

I agree that most "Factory Farms" don't allow their animals the freedom that animal activists think the animals should have, but what animals have you asked to form that opinion. Remenber the dust bowl of the thirties? It was caused mainly by grain farmers and very poor cultivation practices in the face of drought.

There are just as many "factory farms' that raise veggies, fruits, nuts, flakes and grains as there are animal factory farms. We also raised oranges and the amount of herbicides and pesticides necessary to do so would amaze even you. This is caused by people like you that demand only perfect appearance of a citrus fruit.

I did not ask you to abandon your lifestyle, but only asked you a question about it and how you got there. Your demeanunition of my research and lack of your own is indicitave of your militancy. I do know whereof I speak, remember I said that this would degenerate into an "my God can whup your God" argument.

BTW we always raised our own veggies to keep the herbicides and pesticides out of our diet to the extent possible. Do you trust the Mexicans not to pee on yours?

Adele Davis died at age 70, not 55. And she had bone cancer, which I don't think is indicative of the fact that she overdosed on fruits and veggies. I've never heard of such a silly conclusion, and if you could provide a link to support your statement, that would be helpful.

You know, I had a nice response typed out, dude. Then I realized that I was simply repeating myself over and over again.

But I will say this:

Rude and presumptuous.





I knew you'd eventually get around to calling me militant. Funny, considering you're the one busting your butt to try and prove my lifestyle wrong, and I don't really give a damn either way.


The truth is, my heart isn't in this debate. I think what folks choose to eat is a personal decision that can be based on many different things: ethics, health, taste, cost, convenience, etc. <shrug> As long as there's plenty of food to go around, I shouldn't have to defend my choices, and neither should you. So I guess I see this as kinda pointless.

I live off tictacs and tap water. I wouldn't know.




















I'm going to get skinny like Nicole Ritchie and wear big, fat-ass sunglasses.

That's hott.

I was replying here to comments made by PF on another forum and intended no insult.

I admire people who have convictions and the self discipline to live by them. When it comes to food, I certainly wish I could make healthier choices. But, old habits ......blah, ba, blah, ba blah. So, there's so much good stuff about eating and enjoying life. To each his own!

woops I goofed about her age but it is unknown what cancers are caused by herbicides and pesticides and MS davis herself blamed a misguided youthful diet on her condition before she died.




I have said nothing to try to prove your lifestyle wrong but I do have the right to think it misguided, just as you do of mine. The old MY GOD Trumps YOUR GOD argument. You are right about the info quoted above but not about taking my question personally.

It's only hott if you wear string vests, too.

Does being a vegan lead to a fat ass?

No it usually leads to malnourishment and a sickly, wasting away look because a vegetarian's diet contains a very poor amino acid profile.

Lou you're missing the point, as peacefrog says. Unlike you, my issues with Vegans are almost entirely with their core beliefs, that animals should have equal rights to humans - that humans are nothing special and have no God-given right to lord it over the animals. Of course that gets into more of a religious argument than anything else, and is therefore not very amenable to debate, and I know nobody wants to "go there".

No kidding BMIC, isn't that basically what I said about my god can whup your god. DOYH as Homer says.