http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/15/0...1.xdv0o3w3.html




What about 2 months before we invade?

Talk is cheap.

I bet if we do end up doing something it won't involve ground troops.

I agree. It'll be bombs, possibly even tactical nukes , raining from the sky on their nukes sites.

When the bomb became our god
We loved it far too much,
Worshipping no other gods before it.

We thought ourselves great
And powerful, creators of worlds.

We turned toward infinity,
Giving the bomb our very souls.

We looked to it for comfort,
To its smooth metallic grace.

When the bomb became our god
We lived in a constant state of war
That we called peace .

David Krieger
WHEN THE BOMB BECAME OUR GOD

When I read that the first thing that came to mind was Planet of the Apes. The people that lived under ground and worshiped the Bomb like it was their God.

I could see Iran getting a nuclear bomb and using it on Israel. Then we would have to do something possibly using tactical nukes. So the big question then would be what happens next would Russia or China get involved or would it just end there?

A better scenario would for President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to keep talking sh!t until the Iranians get fed up and kick his @ss out of office. Yes I realize that's wishful thinking.

tactical nukes are just nuclear bombs

Don't sanitize it.

Look at the language. Iran will use a nuclear bomb but the US will use tactical nukes.

Makes the Iranians sound infamous and the Americans heroic.

Beware the rhetoric.

I meant no rhetoric by using "tactical". I just used it as an accurate description of the type of bomb that would likely be used to destroy their nuclear sites. And they usually are a smaller kilo-ton package then strategic "city killers".

But Iran is becoming infamous. Didn't they vow to wipe Israel off the face of the map? Statements like that plus their determination to possess nukes sure makes them infamous in my book.

I don't even think we'll be the ones to take action. We'll be too wishy-washy after the Iraq debacle.

No need to anger the rest of the world by going nuclear when we've got MOABs.

So dropping the bombs on Japan was something disgraceful or detestable? Do you care to discuss what the alternatives to dropping those bombs were? They weren't any prettier than the results at Hiroshima and Nagasaki and would have killed many more people.

IMO, there is never a justifiable excuse to dropping a nuclear bomb on anyone, anywhere, ever.

Using WW2 as an example, the alternatives were either large scale invasion of the Japanese home islands, which would have resulted in millions dead, or a naval blockade and bombing campaign that would have resulted in the systematic starvation of the Japanese people. You're saying that those are acceptable alternatives? Surrender was not an option in Japan's culture. Their choice, not ours.

The bomb is a horrendous weapon, but in the long run, I think it prevented a much larger loss of human life in WW2.

Back on topic (since that is in vogue around here lately ), Israel said that they consider the recent antics by Iran, Syria, and the Palestine government declarations of war. This isn't going to end well, is it?

If surrender wasn't an option than why did they finally surrender? They would have just let bomb 3, 4, 5 etc. land until there was no more Japan. Japan didn't want to agree to an unconditional surrender which is a very different thing than no surrender at all. I agree that dropping the bombs on Japan prevented a much larger loss of American lives.

Back on topic, didn't Bush put nuclear bombs back on the table shortly after being elected and before 9/11?

Being a President Bush supporter, I must say, I don't see him going into Iran.

I will say this, he is not always the brightest bulb in the box, but, I don't think he will jeopardize (any further) the chance for another Republican President. IMO

I just don't see the support for any type of action against Iran from within the party. Especially with Mid-Ter Elections and the 08 race right around the corner.

Sorry, Id. I just can't make your connection between Truman and Bush. Your "you can justify anything afterwards" argument doesn't work in the case of Truman. The invasion of Japan was going forward (they even had an X-Day set- 11/01/1945) and would have occurred had the bomb not been successfully tested. It's not some reason they came up with after the fact.

I will concede one tidbit about Truman to you. I saw a History Channel show on whether a-bomb use was necessary. Some think that Truman felt pressured to use it as a show of force to communist Russia, which was already being marked as the next threat. Maybe there were other things in play when making the decision?

And millennium is right. The hangup was unconditional surrender, but it had been decided years before that that would be the only kind of surrender acceptable since the Japanese/Germans were the aggressors. Not unreasonable to me.


I'm sorry I brought up the topic of nukes. I threw that out their because I've read that Iran's nuke program is so dispersed and protected I thought that might be the only way to destroy it, should somebody decide to try. I don't want to come off as a hawkish, nuke 'em all kind of person.

Your article is heavy on the obvious, undeniable world calamity that would be brought on with an Iran conflict, but light on why the author feels the situation wouldn't be difficult to defuse. Iran would "probably agree" to a U.S. offer to enrich uranium for them, after they refused a similar Russian offer? What's that all about?

A preemptive strike wouldn't seem as ridiculous if you were only 1200 miles from a nuclear ambitious country that has vowed to destroy your own. I still don't think it will be us that takes action first against Iran.

I wonder how the U.S. and the rest of the world would be handling the Iran situation had we not invaded Iraq?

I just opened my Yahoo front page and this was the top headline:

Bush won't rule out nuclear strike on Iran

It sure does seem like a set-up for a World War. Russia, China and France backing Iran. It seems like Israel is silent. Feels like Israel is the wild card and could push itself against Iran and strike. However, I believe they know the risk it would involve (WWIII) and yet they have proven, in the past, to not back down to bullies. It is a timebomb ticking over there. Scary.

I say they will end up with a bomb because I don't see the international community doing a damn thing to stop them.

I'm not so sure Israel will be able to stop them, Iran has had plenty of time to hide and bury their nuke sites, they may be able to slow them down a little though.

So now I'll sleep better knowing we have another 10+ years to go before the end of the world!

But, drives me crazy not knowing what to believe. I tend to be the fatalist. You know, thinking I have to prepare for the worst but hope for the best. With Russia and China behind Iran, I would imagine that they'd be able to help speed up the timetable.

How long did it take N. Korea to produce nuclear weapons? I'm assuming that they had nuclear power long before Iran.?? Seemed like they produced weapons in a blink.



O.C. was peaceful and as beautiful as the beach can be!

But he also said "We want to solve this issue diplomatically and we're working hard to do so."

You believe him, right?

Sure. Iran's gonna turn into WWIII. Before that it was Iraq's gonna turn into WWIII, and before that, we'd better not really invade Afghanistan or it's gonna turn into WWIII. Before that, we had better not get involved in the Balkans because it could turn ino WWIII.

Come on, folks - We're the only remaining world superpower: nobody is going to challenge us. Get real!

B,

You're beginning to sound like W, himself. This superpower of ours has already been challenged on 9/11. I believe it is by the grace of God and hard working people in our Homeland Security that nothing has happened on our land since then. But, to say that we are the world's only superpower is ridiculous in my opinion. The Middle East has always been a "hot spot". Their way of life is being threatened by what they believe to be "the Great Satan" and Israel. Russia and China, both, have too much at stake to let Iran go. Personally, I do not fear Russia or China, outright, as much as I do the leadership in the Middle East. They are unpredictable and volatile. They have attacked Israel in the past and if that happens again. Who knows what could take place. They has never been a time in history when so many smaller countries have nuclear weapons, so this superpower of ours could be meaningless. That is my opinion. Pls give me your view point as I would much rather believe something less apocalytic and sleep better at night.

I'm paying attention.

The following is from the site globalsecurity.org regarding RNEP (Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator)

Destroying a target buried 1,000 feet into rock would require a nuclear weapon with the yield of 100 kilotons. That is 10 times the size of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. Even the effects of a small bomb would be dramatic. A 1-kiloton nuclear weapon detonated 20 to 50 feet underground would dig a crater the size of Ground Zero in New York and eject 1 million cubic feet of radioactive debris into the air. Detonating a similar weapon on the surface of a city would kill a quarter of a million people and injure hundreds of thousands more.

Nuclear weapons cannot be engineered to penetrate deeply enough to prevent fallout. Based on technical analysis at the Nevada Test Site, a weapon with a 10-kiloton yield must be buried deeper than 850 feet to prevent spewing of radioactive debris. Yet a weapon dropped from a plane at 40,000 feet will penetrate less than 100 feet of loose dirt and less than 30 feet of rock. Ultimately, the depth of penetration is limited by the strength of the missile casing. The deepest current earth penetrators, the B61 Mod 11, can burrow is 20 feet of dry earth. Casing made of even the strongest material cannot withstand the physical forces of burrowing through 100 feet of granite, much less 850 feet.

---
There is a weapons test scheduled for June 2, 2006 in the Nevada desert about 700 miles from Las Vegas that is supposedly related to RNEP. Anyone heard of Divine Strake? The press sometimes makes a typo and calls it Divine Strike. Hmm...

Because of Idiots!

Geesh...bogged down. How about in a "quagmire"? Don't forget "Bush lied!!!" And since you said this was a war for oil waaaay back, please tell me where all that oil is going now.

Scoff at us being a superpower...jeesh.

Hmm...power corrupts...superpower corrupts superbly?

Yapping dogs nipping at our heels is all 9-11 was. Terrorists are weak cowardly curs deserving of nothing but humane euthanasia.

Terrorists don't even control one single nation's arsenal so they can't even take part in a World War, so your lame reference to 9-11 attacks was totally off-topic.

The reference to nukes was unfortunate, since we have plenty of MOABs and bunker-busters in our arsenal. No need to anger the anti-nuke sideshow freaks.

So from now on Idiot will be known as "the Bill Clinton alternative"? Better yet - "Slick Willy's Sub", or "SWS" for short?

Ok, Id.

I'm convinced! What I should have said was something like, "nothing as catastrophic as 9/11 has happened since." OK? Wether it is Homeland Security or the local police force, I am still grateful many acts of terrorism have been prevented. I heard of a woman who had to quit her job with Homeland Security because she couldn't handle the stress of knowing about all the possibilities of terroristic acts. Couldn't sleep at all. So, they must be doing something in our behalf!

If Islamic terrorists brought down Flight 587 wouldn't they have been bragging about it?

"I can see you weren't paying attention back then." You're right I wasn't, thanks for the info.

[quote name='Idiot' post='53493' date='Apr 20 2006, 04:26 PM'][quote name='Checkingin' post='53336' date='Apr 19 2006, 08:01 AM'][/quote]

[/quote]
This isn't the biggest incident that I have questions about. Remember Flight 587? It crashed in a suburb of NY City 2 minutes after take-off just 2 months after 9/11. It was still smoldering less than 48 hours later when the FBI ruled out terrorism. Before 9/11 it typically took a year on average to determine the cause of airline crashes and they never ruled out anything for weeks or months.

Forty days after the crash was the famous "shoe bomber" incident. In 2003 Canadian intelligence declassified a report saying that 2 days after Flight 587 they received information from a reliable informant naming the terrorist responsible for the crash. I can only assume that they passed this information on the US authorities. Over 250 people died as a result of the crash including 5 on the ground.

These are not theories, these things happened and are documented. Take it for what it's worth. I have no theory to offer, all I have are unanswered questions. Or more accurately unasked questions, at least they haven’t been asked by our "liberal" main stream media.
[/quote]


Idiot do you have any links to the Canadien story? I would be interested in reading ti.

Tony

That's interesting. I don't doubt it could have been terrorism and possibly covered up.

I remember reading a novel (can't remember the name) but it was based on true evidence and eye witness accounts of the plane crash out of New York to Paris , years ago. There was alot of information and eye witnesses that said they saw a streak of light from a boat to the airplane right before it blew up. I can't remember what the "official" cause of the explosion was, but I do remember that terrorism was ruled out.
Makes me wonder how many more things were covered up.

Be careful Checkingin before you know it these conspiracy theorists around here will have sucked you in.

You're thinking of TWA 800.

Thanks, SMan.

That's it. I still can remember the name of the novel. Think DeMille was the author. It is a good story. I will try to find out the name and post it in the critics corner. Had alot of eye witness accounts that were swept under the rug. Good reading.

I sometimes think that the government covers up for the public's mental health. So as not to cause more panic and paranoia. I've seen that happen alot....hmmmm

Sman

TWA Flight 800. Please let us not go there. I know families in Montoursville who lost loved ones. That poor community has taken the past years to heal the wound & the scar is still dark pink over the wound.

There is a possible conspiracy. I have read everything I could get my hands on regarding this matter and have not been satisfied..not enough evidence in any of the findings...