Since when do 5 people in C'burg protesting the war and Bush deserve front page coverage in the HM Sunday edition?? This "protest", anti-war rally, or whatever you call it, had fewer attendees than the goofballs from the KKK managed in their first pathetic rally! But the HM gives them front page coverage. And paint a veteran as a bad guy.

If Idiot weren't fishing I'da thought he was there... laugh.gif

Five protest war in Iraq

by KATE S. ALEXANDER/Staff Correspondent

CHAMBERSBURG, PA. - Standing behind the rhetoric of peace, Alison Melotti-Cormack of Chambersburg held a firm vigil with a sign that read, "Peace, a way of life."

Across the street, Bob Cooper of Chambersburg stood behind the rhetoric of accountability, with a sign that read, "Bush-Cheney are war criminals."

Melotti-Cormack, Cooper and three other residents of Chambersburg gathered Saturday at Memorial Square to promote peace and protest war at a rally hosted by the Franklin County Peace Network.

But their message was less than palatable for some.

"You're wrong, you're wrong," said Sgt. 1st Class Kevin McCreary, of the National Guard stationed in Johnstown, Pa.

No strangers to insults, the individuals come to the square monthly to spread their message in spite of local sentiment.

According to Harriett Diller of Chambersburg, the group fluctuates in size and usually stands along the street with signs bearing peace and anti-war rhetoric.

More passive than active in their protest, the group does not call out to people, but looks for the reactions of those who pass.

As hundreds of residents drove and walked past the protesters, there were those who agreed and shouted "Peace." However, there also were those who opposed and declared that "if you don't support the war, you don't support the troops."

Diller said that the demonstrators mostly encounter negative reactions.

"When we first started, people were hateful," Diller said, adding that they would shout obscenities and insults at the group. Diller said how after time, she noticed that motorists and pedestrians crossing the square became more accepting, but at the same time, she noticed that many were indifferent.

"Now, they just ignore us," Diller said.

Yet, not everyone who comments to the group does so in passing. According to Melotti-Cormack, McCreary's reaction was the most persistent the group has encountered.

McCreary, who insisted that protesters were wrong, added, "I had a buddy who died over there and you, you're disrespecting him."

McCreary continued to insult the group for most of the demonstration, inciting an argument with the protesters.

"Iraq never attacked (the United States)," Nick Melotti of Chambersburg said to McCreary.

"I had a buddy shot at in Iraq before the war even started," McCreary said. "They attacked us. They attacked my friend."

Insisting that the Iraqi insurgency is a group of "Islamic fundamentalist fascists," McCreary continued to argue with protesters, stating that "25 million" Iraqis want the U.S. military presence on their soil.

"The bottom line is that we are winning," McCreary said. "If you don't support the war, you don't support the troops. And you're wrong."

Melotti-Cormack, who never engaged in direct dialogue with McCreary, attempted to address his comments.

"How can you say peace is wrong?" Melotti-Cormack said. "How can you say that asking our government to not kill more people is wrong?"

With no one to answer her questions, Melotti-Cormack said that many people cannot reconcile the senseless loss of their loved ones with their love of America and in response, grow angry.

"War clouds everything, including judgment," she said.

According to Diller, the group has stood vigil on the square since before the United States began fighting in Iraq in 2003. Despite the many discouraging aspects of the vigil, the protesters plan to continue until the wars are over.

"I'll be out here 'til the end," Cooper said. "As long as our troops are over there, I will be here."

I would guess these are some of the reasons as to why the crowd was not very large:

1) They're there on a monthly basis, so it's not like a 1-time organized rally
2) I doubt that they take great strides in spreading the word about the rally.

I think it would have been better if the Herald Mail did a short story on it before they rallied, that way those who want to protest a senseless war could participate.

Peace

A neat little article I stumbled over today. It kinda sums up my views of peace activists. In short, peace activists probably cause much more harm than good, and real, lasting peace only follows victory.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/...rsus_peace.html

Note the location: Memorial Square. A place dedicated to honoring the brave young men and women who gave their lives in war, and these folks choose to disgrace their memories by holding monthly peacenik protests there.

Yes but those brave souls fought and died for these nut-jobs to have the "right" to protest.

Memorial square is precisely the right place to protest an unnecessary war.

And just what is your reasoning for this being "unjust"?

Wasn't the creation of the state of Israel a victory?

Are you talking to me? I said unnecessary. I imagine if you were one of the poor Shia being fed into Sadam's meat grinder you would find it a totally just war. I also imagine that Dubya is a popular guy in the higher circles of the Iranian regime being as the unintentional result of his policies have left Iran as the major power in the area. Exactly what is the mission now? To stabilize the country enough that it can elect a Shia government that will ally itself with Iran? There is a reason his dad didn't finish off Sadam and left the Kurds and the Shia hanging.

It was a bold masterstroke to bring a sea change to the region and establish a secular democracy in the area. Unfortunately accurate intelligence wasn't there or was ignored. It's time to give up the idea of a unified Iraq before more Americans are killed. It will never be more than a weak sister to Iran. Partition the country into 3 autonomous regions (we owe that much to the Kurds) and withdraw to Kurdistan and establish a minimal protective military presence there

Interesting.

3 Autonomous regions, I will admit is beginning to sound better. The problem is, do you think the Sunni's will allow this? they will be stuck in the middle with little or no natural reasources. I don't see that as fair.

They won't have much of a choice. Let them see life from the other side. They'd be a thorn in the side of the Iranians for awhile anyway. Let's gift the Iranians with a militant disenfranchised insurgency on their doorstep.

Partition?

When has partition ever worked?

yugoslavia

Yeah right - and Arlington National Cemetary is precisely the right place to go and urinate on the graves of U.S. soldiers. That doesn't make it RIGHT to do so!

that's a p*ss poor comparison

Actually IMO it's a very apt comparison. These protestors are no better than that. They are disgracing a Memorial.

Apparently, my definition of worked differs from yours!

Yugoslavia was hardly a bloodless separation. Nevertheless the desire for separation came from within.
Except for the Kurds, where is the desire in Iraq for separation? If the partition is forced on Iraqis, how is that any different from forcing democracy on them. Iraq has to want the solution.

Sunni and Shia both want the same thing - power. That doesn't lend itself to successful partition.


Gotta love the Czechs and Slovaks - they know how to break up a country!

Because it fits the papers liberal agenda.

From what I've read on this forum, FIVE people getting together around here to protest anything is big news!

No pun intended?

It just has to work long enough for us to get out. If we can keep the Turks from doing something stupid the Kurds should be able to take care of their own security (with a little help from their friends). There apparently are no Iraqis. There are just Shia, Sunnis and Kurds. You can thank the Brits for making up another dysfuctional country and screwing up the entire situation in the Middle East.

You know, I'm fed up with people's insistence that if you don't support the war, you're against the soldiers - that's the biggest bunch of horse manure I've ever heard, and citizens are eating it up hook, line and sinker! A person can support the troops yet not support the war - I know, because that's exactly how I feel.

I have never supported this war; I believe it was caused by a little man who is trying to satisfy his ego. I believe that we have many elite teams of military men who could have gone in, done in Saddam and gotten out of there, and nobody would have known any different. But no, the little man in the White House’s ego wouldn’t allow that. That part of the world has been at war with each other since it has existed, they don’t want to have a peaceful existence, and our putting our soldiers there trying to force a concept that they do not embrace is wrong. I believe that we have eliminated Saddam and brought democracy to Iraq, and it’s time to get out of there. I also believe that this is not a war for our freedom, but instead a war for the freedom of Iraqis; after all, there are terrorists all over the world, and we’re not at war with all of the world, just those in Iraq (who, by the way, it has been proven were not involved in 9-11). I don't want my great-great grandchildren to have to pay for an unachievable dream in another country altogether.

I have a problem with a President who will stand in front of an audience and say that he doesn’t think he has made any mistakes.
I have a problem with the fact that we kept bombing the Iraqis and destroyed what infrastructure they did have, and now that we are trying to replace and improve it, they are tearing it down because they either don’t understand it or they don’t want it, and us stupid Americans just keep going back and fixing it only to see it destroyed again.
I have a problem with the fact that this President has thrown billions and billions of dollars away trying to achieve what is ultimately going to be impossible because the Iraqis don’t want it, thereby saddling my grandchildren’s grandchildren with a national debt to repay when we have millions of senior citizens who have to make a daily choice between eating, being warm, or taking their medicine. Those senior citizens would appreciate the millions of dollars we’re throwing away being spent on them much more than the Iraqis do.
Likewise, the folks who are still homeless from the hurricane damage to Florida two years ago and those who are still homeless from Hurricane Katrina (remember, it hit more than New Orleans, but nobody seems to remember those other areas) would appreciate a portion of the money he is wasting also. We need to take care of our own who would appreciate it before we take care of a bunch of foreigners who don’t appreciate it, and in some instances don’t want it.

I support our soldiers, and I include them in my prayers every night. Our Deputy Division Manager got on a plane for Kuwait on July 4th; and we will worry about him every day until he returns. Because between the little man who sits in the White House and the nutcases over there in that part of the world, he is in danger. He is a very good man, a better person than I will ever be in my lifetime, and he believes in what he is going over there for. Unfortunately, the terrorists don’t care; he’s just another American to kill, and if they can do it, they will.

But just because somebody does not support a war and shows it by protesting does not mean that they are not respectful of the military members. And the people who say that those who protest the war are bad Americans or ”those who tear us down from within” are also ignorant. If you can't tell, this is a subject I feel very strongly about.

You folks just keep letting the political machine (both conservative and liberal) feed you their line of horsecrap. Don't even pay attention that terrorism has been going on for centuries, and we have been very lucky to not have been affected by it before the past 15 years. But continuing down the path we are travelling, we are only guaranteeing a continuous future population of terrorists and our own financial challenges for NOTHING. It will never work because the Iraquis who DO appreciate it won't take a stand and help us fight the battle.

Well said!!

Well said x2..

x3

There's a place for making protests, and dancing on the graves of dead soldiers - or doing so by reference by taking over a Memorial Square - is NOT appropriate behavior. Just about any other place than Memorial Square would be more approprriate.

In some peoples' eyes these protestors are only one tiny step less offensive than that fringe group who was protesting gays at the funerals of our soldiers. Both are disgracing a memorial in order to promote their own personal political agendas.

It's a memorial to honor the war dead, specifically those of the Civil War. It is not a monument to "my government right or wrong". It does no dishonor to veterans, living or dead to protest the war in Iraq in that public space. In fact, it's a matter of civic duty to do so if you feel the war is wrong.

As an aside, the memorial is historically inaccurate in showing the soldier on guard gazing south watching for the approaching rebels. The majority of troops pointed themselves northward and booked in a hurry all three times the Confederates rode in. One newspaper sarcastically reported at the time that "our troops fought bravely until almost within sight of the enemy".

...and thus, contrary to your opinion, I think it's not a suitable place for any such activity as holding a political protest. Let them do it in a public park shopping mall or some other place not dedicated to the memory of anyone, whose descendants would be offended.

Pretty much says it all. I don't see anyone caring about it when I drive by anymore.

Overstating my point for emphasis of course, but my point remins that memorials should be respected, and really aren't the proper place for political protests on contentious issues.

I haven't heard anyone use that term in a while. You wouldn't happen to be from Kentucky would you?

The topic of the thread is protesting a war where real live soldiers are dying every day. But since you seem to be fixated on memorials of previous wars and p!ssing, let me just briefly offer you my feelings on the subject.

I would gladly drive to Washington DC and personally p!iss on every memorial I could find if I thought for a second that it would save one soldier's life.

Nope, the ancestral homeland is Scranton and I'm a suburban Philly boy. My dad used the term often, usually in regard to something I said or did. Maybe he picked it up from his best friend on the flight crew during the war. He was from Tennesee.

Damn Marco, that sounds familiar.

I grew up outside Philly, then moved up NE, Wayne County.

So, Idiot, you think Israel started this war and they should be forced to stop pounding Hezbolah by US pressure???

Dotted connecting line at best.

Go for it. Just let me know where and when and I'll have the Park Police meet you there.

Idiot, you DARE to accuse me of going off topic and then post that long piece of off-topic garbage?

Fine by me, just gaurantee there's a soldier's life to be saved and I'll get at least a hunderd veterans to join me. We've seen worse than park police and we're very peaceful people. Remember? We want to stop war.



I knew you were going to nail me on that post, but I had to do it. After Ud responds 'll delete it if you like.





What? You want a picture of them physically in bed together?

Oh that's right, you're a Republican... Ken Star... cigars... stains on dresses... I forgot, of course that's what you want.

I'll work on it.

Didn't Haliburton's stock take a tumble? Lover's spat?

I'm originally from PA and have always heard that term as well. I don't think it's a regional saying.

I can't find the thread now but I could've sworn that Pops told everyone to sell. I saw it last weekend when I got back from my fishing trip. At that time I looked at it and they had paid a dividend the day after he posted, and a couple days after it split 2 for 1 and was at about $40 per share. I just checked and it's now at 32. That's a drop of 20% in less than a week.

Hey Pops, let's have lunch. It's on me. I just have a couple questions for you. PM me. Seriously.

Please.

I didn't say they started it. Besides, this has been going on continuously for 58 years. It's too late to be worried about who started it. Maybe someone should start worrying about who's going to stop it. I can tell you this though. Whatever they do, it will be because of US pressure. The most anyone in the world can hope and pray for is that they, or someone in their family, doesn't end up dying because of it.

The most important thing I know about this issue is this.

People don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor Germany. That is understood. Ater all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

There is one difference, in a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

That is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

You say they are both currently on the Bush Foreign policy team, how long have they been on the team?

But I'll give it to you Six months later and you found it.

I just wish I could have been there to see how excited you got when you found it.

So it looks like I'll be the one buying the drinks.

"I didn't say they started it. Besides, this has been going on continuously for 58 years. It's too late to be worried about who started it. Maybe someone should start worrying about who's going to stop it."

Idiot, This is the most profound statement I've ever heard from you. You are absolutely right! finger pointing at this juncture is pointless. Like you said this has been going on for over 50 years and isn't going to stop until someone wipes out the other side. There will never be any lasting peace between the two.

Certainly not if Israel keeps up their policy of appeasement through unilateral withdrawal. It hasn't worked. Not with their withdrawal from Gaza, and not now with their withdrawal from Southern Lebanon. If nobody else will do it, Israel needs to act to keep the borders regions under control.

I will admit that the book "Exodus" is really all I know about Israel, but it just seems to me that their politicians are just bullies. I base that opinion on the way the papers reported that Israel was pushing the Palestinians out of the West Bank; I don't know the politics of the Palestinians, but they have to live somewhere, and if an amicable arrangement could be reached, they should have tried to do that, but it never seemed like they tried very hard to do that. When I was a kid, my dad always told me it was his way or the highway, which made me try harder to do it my way.

But then, if I remember correctly, that guy with the red and white scarf (he's dead now, and I don't remember his name) wasn't very willing to negotiate, either, was he?

You mean Yasser Arafat? He certainly didn't want to negotiate. But then again I'm not sure anyone wants to negotiate when the other side is holding all the cards.

Or all the guns.

Yeah, HIM!

So, somebody 'splain to me - why have we (US) aligned ourselves with Israel all of these years if they are bullies? What is it we expect to gain? I don't understand why we're even in that part of the world - the excuse of bringing democracy is wearing very thin on me, there has to be another reason. Some folks say it's oil, but Israel isn't a big oil-producing area, so there has to be something else. Unless we just have to stick our noses in other folks' business, I can't understand what it is.

American Jews are influential.