So what did you all think?

I agree that the fighting is like whack-a-mole; stop it here, it starts there... but I'm not sure how 20,000 troops will solve that problem. I did like hearing about some of the solutions they had planned to help build an economy, create jobs, etc and I really hope that they are carried out and successful.

I was disturbed to hear that they are going to begin "accelerated training". I would like to know why there wasn't an urgency before... shouldn't it have been accelerated all along? I was also curious as to why the troops weren't embedded with Iraqis all along as I would think that would've helped stabilize forces and even offer training.

Another thing that worries me is the Saddam execution. I believe that the people fighting in that part of the world are no more than bloodthirsty savages and the chanting and mocking during the execution, not to mention the ramifications of the execution during a volatile time, further cement that opinion. I'm curious as to how an increase in troops will stop Shiites and Sunnis from hating each other.

Like many Americans I feel that 4 years is long enough. The administration hasn't accomplished all of its goals, but it did bring about some good in Iraq. We have made enough sacrifices for the Iraqi people whether they be financial or personal, and I think that its time they start standing on their own two feet.

I think that they should start a slow withdrawal of troops now and pull them back to Kuwait or nearby friendly territory on standby. See how things go from there and react accordingly. The only problem is... what if the Iraqis do nothing and the country spirals further out of control. What then?

Well, we better be out of there in 2 years. That's when Iran's oil runs out and the walk in and take over Iraq.

HUH???

do you wanna leave Japan, Germany, France too? Heck we've been there since 1942...

bush is on tv right now , hes giveing us the old scare speach, there going to come over here and get us, ha.

Coma,
I feel the same about Saddams execution the chanting was very disturbing and so loud. I really thought i could handle watching it but it made me ill. I also feel 4 years is long enough. Saddam is goin now. Let the People in Iraq get there Country together. The USA helped enough. We have lost so many of our own people ( its so sad ) Your statement on the Iraqis getting further out of control. I really believe thats whats going to happen! It really scares me.

Regurgitated.

With a few new lies.

I was looking for Shakespeare on the shelf behind him. He said last year that Hamlet was on his summer reading list. He's obviously finished ACT IV.

Hamlet:

And let all sleep, while to my shame I see
The imminent death of twenty thousand men
That for a fantasy and trick of fame
Go to their graves like beds, fight for a plot
Whereon the numbers cannot try the cause,
Which is not tomb enough and continent
To hide the slain? O, from this time forth,
My thoughts be bloody, or be nothing worth!

Sure, why not? Is it really necessary that we have folks stationed there anymore? If I was in the military I probably wouldn't mind staying in any of those three countries simply for the experience, but that's not what they're there for. Actually, what ARE they there for?

Dont get me wrong i believed in Bush fully but now with whats going on i just dont know what to think. I hope we get through this.

tagout,

I think thats alot of Peoples fears. It just might happen. I pray NOT!

Strategic locations to defend against the "former" Soviet Union. At least that was the reasoning back then.

Speaking of regurgitated, that's what I do everytime I read you downing the country I love and VOLUNTEERED to defend.

That's a new one. Quoting Hamlet is now Un-American.

Welcome Back TB-Mill-Monk

And to answer your crazy statement, no quoting Hamlet is not Un-American. What is Un-American is bashing the president every time he presents a plan of action, and NOT having a plan of your own that is feasible. The Demo's whine and cry that this is "not what the American people want" according to the last election. FINE, present a feasible workable plan, OTHER than cut and run. I'll listen.

Get out now

That's the only "plan" they have.

You don't get out of the monastery much do you? Everyone knows that Shakespeare hated America.




Welcome back Monk. Does this mean your vow of silence is over?

My crazy statement!

You've been acting like a lunatic.

Have you been called up for another tour of duty? You seem to be more aggressive than usual.

One thread you just told idiot to STFU.

No plan for cfulmer is feasible or workable unless it is Bush's plan.

Anything cfulmer disagrees with is "cut and run".

Soldiers are led by the CIF but you are so sensitive about any criticism of Bush you really must be in love with him.
Be careful that might get you kicked out of the army!

Bush's Iraq plans will put a Democrat in the White House in 2008, regardless of who the candidate may be. That's a great plan. I fully endorse it!

I am on Active Duty now, have been since 1 Oct 05, in support of the Real American Warfighters.

Monk,
Your GOOD!

Seems to me Bush is second guessing himself ( he should! )

Last night’s speech.


October 25, 2006 press conference.



Last night:

"The situation in Iraq is unacceptable to the American people -- and it is unacceptable to me. "

In October:

"I know many Americans are not satisfied with the situation in Iraq. I'm not satisfied, either. "



Last night:

"Many listening tonight will ask why this effort will succeed when previous operations to secure Baghdad did not...The Prime Minister understands this. Here is what he told his people just last week: "The Baghdad security plan will not provide a safe haven for any outlaws, regardless of [their] sectarian or political affiliation.""

In October:

"First, we're working with political and religious leaders across Iraq, urging them to take steps to restrain their followers and stop sectarian violence...The new Iraqi government has condemned violence from all quarters and agreed to a schedule for resolving issues, such as disarming illegal militias and death squads."



Last night:

"...we will increase the embedding of American advisers in Iraqi Army units, and partner a coalition brigade with every Iraqi Army division. We will help the Iraqis build a larger and better-equipped army, and we will accelerate the training of Iraqi forces,"

In October:

"...refining our training strategy for the Iraqi security forces so we can help more of those forces take the lead in the fight, and provide them better equipment and fire power to be successful."



Last night:

"To give every Iraqi citizen a stake in the country's economy, Iraq will pass legislation to share oil revenues among all Iraqis. To show that it is committed to delivering a better life, the Iraqi government will spend $10 billion of its own money on reconstruction and infrastructure projects that will create new jobs. To empower local leaders, Iraqis plan to hold provincial elections later this year. And to allow more Iraqis to re-enter their nation's political life, the government will reform de-Baathification laws, and establish a fair process for considering amendments to Iraq's constitution."

In October:

...sharing oil revenues, amending the Iraqi constitution, and reforming the de-Baathification process."



Last night:

"We will use America's full diplomatic resources to rally support for Iraq from nations throughout the Middle East. Countries like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, and the Gulf States need to understand that an American defeat in Iraq would create a new sanctuary for extremists and a strategic threat to their survival."

In October:

"...reaching out to Arab states such as Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan, and asking them to support the Iraqi government's efforts to persuade Sunni insurgents to lay down their arms and accept national reconciliation."



Last night:

"We mourn the loss of every fallen American -- and we owe it to them to build a future worthy of their sacrifice."

In October:

"I owe it to them and to the families who still have loved ones in harm's way to ensure that their sacrifices are not in vain."


It was only a 20 minute speech. Hell, that was almost half of it.

Do you actually watch and listen these things cf?




This para. was classic Bush:


He didn't change any strategy. What he changed was tactics.

They "benefited" from the ISG report? Have you read the ISG report? He ignored it completely!

He fired all the generals because they wouldn't say they needed more troops.

And do you really believe that he "consulted" with democrats in congress?

Beyond the lies his logic is so flawed that an 8 year old could see through it. He's said a hundred times that leaving would be the most horrible thing in the world. And then he threatens the Iraqi leaders that they have to step up this time or else. Or else what? We leave? But that's the most horrible thing in the world, so they know that we can't do that. Nor is it ever his intention to do so.

A uniter not a divider. HA! He's got half the country ready to hide under the bed because if we leave Iraq the terrorists will follow us here. But he also says the terrorists over there are coming from outside the country, that they're al Qaeda, and that they hate Americans and want to kill us all. So answer me this. Why don't the terrorists just come here and kill us now? Why do they go to Iraq where the only Americans they can kill have guns? Why don't they come here after us now while our military is distracted. It's nice that they go hunt our military down to be shot. Do you really think they're that stupid? If so then why are you so afraid of them.

The other half of the country would just like to rip his lungs out.

I'll tell you who's stupid. The Democrats. If you've been listening to them this week they think they can stop him by using the law. They actually still think that he cares about the Constitution or the will of the American people.

That's a pregnant statement. Goodness, enough drama for triplets!

Should I take a guess?

A contretemps with Iran?

Good guess. It seems obvious to me that Iran is the key to the entire mess over there.

No one knows what's going to happen with Iraq. All any of us have are our opinions. The scenario I see playing out is based strictly on history. It doesn't answer all the questions, at least not to my satisfaction, but it comes a hell of a lot closer than anything else I've heard.

So what have you heard about the selection of Admiral Fallon to replace General Abazaid?

Well for one thing, he's in the Navy.

the few troops he is sendiing over there is just giving them more targets to shoot at, cant work, everything hes done so far has been wrong, how all of a sudden this is the right thing to do?

I haven't heard anything but it makes me think that the top brass in the army by virtue of being on the ground have figured out what the general public hasn't yet, that is that the plan isn't what they've been saying it is. It would also appear that they are united against this escalation.

What pissed me off about the speech was that Bush actually blamed them for the whole mess. The media was all giddy about the line: "Where mistakes have been made, the responsibility rests with me."

That's like saying that "people who worked for me screwed up, and I'm jumping on the grenade." That sort of "admission" is designed to make him the hero.

He went on to say this: "Our past efforts to secure Baghdad failed for two principal reasons: There were not enough Iraqi and American troops to secure neighborhoods that had been cleared of terrorists and insurgents."

For 3 years he's been saying that he listens to the generals and they haven't asked for more troops. So that means that the generals made the mistake, not him.

The good news is the fact that the president does trust the top army brass. That gives me hope.

If they're smart they'll keep it that way. They aren't offering a plan because there is no good plan. They told him that when he started this war.

No, no, no, don't look to the democrats. This is Bush's war top to bottom. He owns it. Every dead soldier is his responsibility.


Bush's Dead Soldiers: 3,019

Total BS from you as usual, Idiot. As you keep conveniently forgetting, the Dems were all screaming how we had to stop Saddam and they also authorized use of force to Bush to do it.

Sitting back now and saying he plan is all wrong yet offering no alternative is definitely not leadership and worse than saying nothing at all.

This reply is just more liberal BS

This doesn't have anything to do with the Constitution. All this is about, is a bunch of fking liberal cry babies that can't do anything but b!tch and complain about everything this President does.

If they think they know so much lets hear a realistic plan to wrap up the war. If they don't have one then they should just shut the fk up.

About as high as your stupid post count I believe.

I thought you would like that, been reading your posts and lately there's been a lot of F words in them. I can't seem to get that mad about this stuff but I figured I would try just to cheer you up a little.

Not quite, but I've got a lot more stupid posts in me.

Question for you, Id. Do you get this worked up over the probably 10K+ homicide victims in the United States each year? Forgive me if this is a non sequitur, I was just wondering if your outrage over the violent loss of life extends to non-political realms. If it does, how do you ever have any personal peace in your life?

I'd have to say that I view homicides as individual crimes with individual circumstances for each case. The victims of such crimes cover a wider range of the population, i.e. not necessarily targeting young men between the ages of 19 and 23. While I realize that they both are the result of horrible injustices, to me there's something more sinister about destroying innocence the way that war does. And the ones that seem to profit are also a smaller group. Doesn't seem fair to me.

Also, and this may be prejudiced, no it flat out is prejudiced, murders happen most often in heavily populated areas of the country. Have you ever glanced through the list of the daily casualties in Iraq and read the hometowns of the dead? Most of the places you've probably never heard of. I haven't. It's hometown America. Amazingly they come from mostly red states. Coming from the US town that happened to have the highest per capita death rate of the Vietnam war, and one that very few people have ever heard of, Bardstown Kentucky, that's always resonated with me.

Trust me SMan, I have a lot of peace in my life. Not in spite of how I may act but because of it. I wish I had started long ago.

It would seem so.

Let's look at it from another angle...I can play your game, too...

Clinton's Dead now totals over 6000 US citizens!

I can argue that if Clinton had done his duty instead of concentrating on "other things" the WTC 9-11 attack would not have happened, and if it did not, we would not have felt the need to go to war in Iraq.

Good luck with that.


The people of this country have figured out which party is the party of war. We know which party wants to use our sons and daughters lives to promote their own political ideas. You can argue all you want, you're not going to change that.


Update: 27 more US soldiers were killed just this past weekend. 270 Iraqis were killed in Baghdad in the same period. That's the meat grinder Bush wants to send 20 year-old kids into to knock on doors. While his own kids are partying and trashing hotels in Buenos Aires.


Bush's Dead Soldiers = 3,056

Mr Wilson's Dead (D) Soldiers=53,402
Mr Roosevelt's (D) Dead Soldiers=291,557
Mr Truman's (D) Dead Soldiers=33,741
Mr Kennedy and Mr Johnson's (DD)Dead Soldiers=47,424

So what does this prove Mr Idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me save you the typing cramps Id.

They were for "noble" causes, and my sons were not in danger of being drafted (not that they are now).

WOW! Thats a real headscratcher there. so lets get this straight. So you are saying that homicides in "urban" areas of the country
dont really hit home with you and are not something that you are concerned with yet on the other hand you are outraged over another
group of 18-23 year old men that are dying because that is "personally offensive" to you.

How about the black or african american soldiers that died in iraq or afghanistan? Do you have a seperate tally for them? Do they count
as much as white soldiers that die?

Hillary is going to pull your card!! For a flaming liberal to have such an interesting perspective on race and to come right out and say "no it flat out is prejudiced" thats the last thing I'd expect.

You haven't been hanging out with gordon Young have you?

Turn in your ACLU card immediately

Be specific, it is to steal Iraqi oil!

Clinton's Dead Americans: 6056 +

Yeah, I can play, too.

The State of the Union Address Drinking Game 2007

Now that is humorous.

It was a noble cause to save France's ass, THRICE???????? more is the pity.

i think every one is going to need a big drink after he gets done tonight, like he wanted to give our s.s. money away to wall street, now hes hitting our insurance that we have worked hard for all our lives, to pay for some one elses, i bet it will be only the middle class he hits with this.

I've had some of those guests ask me what was up with that crackpot Idiot.

I tell them, don't pay any attention to him, he's a harmless flaming liberal.

Well if you are doing the country a special service thats different! Way to grab your target audience!

I missed the speech last night. Just got back from some kind of 'orientation/indoctrination' at SHHS for incoming freshman. Total waste of time...probably just like the Prez's speech...did he say anything worth mentioning or was it the same ole: 1 sentence, clap, clap...thanks...1 more sentence...clap, clap...oops quick shot to Hillary looking pissed...R's standing, D's sitting? I hate the fact that a 15 min. speech goes for an hour...I stopped watching a few ago...

If you are flying, do you have a passport? If so, is it flagged??