Why does the Washington county school system think it is vital for our school children to learn Spanish at the Elementary school level, when the middle schools and high schools are flooded with students who consistently flunk English??

Herald-mail article today. Well and we all wonder why our kids do so crummy at reading.

You know learning a foreign language is fantastic (Latin 1, Spanish 3, French 1 myself), but, at such a young age we should be teaching our kids the foundations of English, Math, Reading, etc... Spanish comprehension is even on the MSA tests the kids have to take!!! I just find it appalling that we complain so much on how the education system is failing in this country , yet , we ignore the fundamentals and try to be more "global" by introducing foreign languages into the elementary schools.

What do you all think?

I totally agree with you! Learning a foreign language is important, but since the US's language is English, we should try to focus on it.

Amen! English is not the second language in this great country.

I'm not quite like some who say if you are going to live here speak the language. Come on, get real. I could care less, what you speak in your home. I will ask that when having a conversation please have enough command of the english language to have intelligent conversations.

Languages taught in schools, should be secondary. Let's master English first. Then if our students wish to explore other languages, more power to them.

kw
ccsc

It sounds like a diversionary tactic..."I know the kids are failing most subjects, but hey, they can speak some spanish..."...the same type of flawed logic that says we should all allow other religions to be okay in the name of diversity, but christianity and judiasm are not allowed anywhere .....sign me seen it all before..

Actually it's probably more like "The spanish-speaking kids are failing our English-language standardized tests, so we'll prop up their scores by adding something in their mother tongue."

I didn't see the article, but I support learning another language IF an ONLY IF all other subjects are given equal weight as well. Math, science, health, and social studies need to come first. They already have enough language arts in the day (see other forum). If students are failing English, it isn't because they aren't seeing enough of it in school. It's because they have been turned off by it in the classroom, they don't have parental support of their education, or they just don't care.
Many countries begin teaching a second language (often English) at the elementary level. The mind is much more flexible and sponge-like when young. Yes we must master our own language, but do we continue to be "arrogant Americans" by only knowing our own language?

Arrogent Americans? Have you ever been to France? Talk about arrogent! You try to order food in French and pronounce a word wrong, your scoffed at. I know pleanty of foriegners that cant speak a word of English, but do I call them Arrogent Israelis, Mexicans, French-Canadians, Japanesse, Afganis, or Russians? No. Even the President of Russia, Vladmir Putin, can't speak English. Calling us Arrogent is what got us into this situation in the first place, saying the US isn't sensitive enough to the world around us. I don't see the Islamic schools in Jordan or Iran teaching their children English to become more Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Ascension, Australia, The Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Bermuda, Dominica, England, The Falklands, Grenada, Guyana, the Isle of Man, Jamaica, Montserrat, Northern Ireland, St Kitts & Nevis, St Helena, St Vincent & the Grenadines, Trinidad & Tobago, the USA, the Virgin Islands,Canada, the Channel Islands, Eire, Gibraltar, Liberia, New Zealand, St Lucia, Scotland, South Africa, and Wales friendly.

Like I said, learning a foriegn language is a wonderful adventure, but don't force it down our youths throats and let them decide when they are older if they'd like to persue that path.

Whew! At least this topic is reasonable. ..some of the other topics have been a little caustic...
Romulus I concur. We should try to Teach STudents when they want to learn a 2nd language--like in High School--but not in elementary. We need to focus on primary subjects before we branch off into other fluff topics...We seem to have forgotten as a nation of immigrants, none of our forefathers(correction--some) spoke english at home...most of their children spoke 1 language at home, like Polish, and English at school which enabled the children to then teach their parents at home. We should stick to that method.
I personally am offended when I am in an office and I hear alot of chatter in Spanish which is done to exclude the other folks in the office...and don't tell me it isn't...I have been around the block a few times...so since we are an English speaking society, we should all speak and write English first...often I have found that those who regularly converse in another language at work do not have the basics of writing and speaking in english...just a thought...

I don't understand why Europeans dare call us arrogant after all of what we did for them in WWII! Plus in Europe where the countries are about the size of US states it's a neccessity to learn a foreign language, we have 280,000,000 with almost all of them speaking English as their first language, and our neighbor to the north speaks English as well. We need to focus on our first language first before deciding to implement new language courses in school.

I think that it's great to teach another language in elementry. The best time to learn a second language is when you are young, not once you reach high school.

Geez, Rom! No one can speak every language. It just would be a good idea to throw in a bit of the other dominant languages (French, Spanish, German, Italian, Japanese, or Russian). I was never scoffed at for my poor French. Rather, I was greeted warmly and graciously for attempting. Two years ago, my daughter took Spanish after school at Paramount. This year they offered French. But it costs a bit and you have to have alternate transportation. For those who cannot afford or arrange transport, they are out of luck. In class instruction would be great, but again, it must come after the basics, as "fluff" as txex called it.

I guess some of the reasoning is that there is now so many Spanish speaking immigrants in this Country that don't know how to speak English that we better bend over backwards to accomodate their language. Some of the Spanish population will learn English in the schools, but their parents have no plans on learning it.

Why should anyone learn our language when they come here when we reward them for not doing so?Oh,you don't speak english!?poor thing! here let me give you ANYTHING you want...

Actually Mom, those countries I refered to are all predominately English speaking.
I have to disagree with having another language taught to children below the age of 11. The English language is hard enough for a child to comprehend, and adding another languages set of rules will absolutely frustrate and confuse the child. Let the parent decide if they would like to have their child learning a second language, but, offer the classes after school so it does not interfere with the other FUNDAMENTAL classes. I'm all for being cultured and having knowledge of a second language, but to force someone into it is absolutely wrong.



I agree WVD. When my forefathers came to this country from Italy,Greece,and France they wanted their children to become Americans, which meant having to go to school and learn English. Hence American assimilation into our society. Today, I see people from all over coming to the US and expecting us to cater to them. Wrong-o!! If I go to school in China will they teach me in an only English speaking class room, like the ones we offer in all public schools now? No! they will expect me to learn the language and assimilate into their culture to survive.

And you forgot one important thing. Total immersion is actually the ONLY REAL way to learn a language. Which is why if you really want to learn Spanish, go to Spain and have to find out where the restroom is! In fact companies which wish to teach their execs a language usually pay for this type of total submersion into a country's language for them to learn it.

I agree with all of you, why should I be forced to learn someone else's language just because there is an influx of Hispanic immigrants? When my relatives came over from Germany they didn't expect the Americans to learn German just for them! Also, as some other poster said, it's rude when you're in the office and a coworker is talking away in some other language, they're doing it on purpose so no one else can understand them.

Offering Spanish as a language in school has nothing to do with the number of immigrants from Spanish speaking countries. It's all about learning and exposing children to other cultures. For generations, other languages have been taught in public schools. Latin used to be the popular choice. At the high school I graducated from, Spanish has been taught for at least the last 50 years.

And as I said before, it is easier for a child to learn another lanuage when they are learning English. You wait until high school and it is more difficult. I wish I would have taken Spanish but my mother insisted that Frensh would be very necessary in the future.

Well, with that logic we should teach Chinese--it is the most used language on the planet--they have many more people than the spanish speaking ones...
By the way, its french, not frensh--even if they are fresh....
.

Wanna bet? since the Mexican immigrant explosion in the late 90's to now, almost 14 counties in the tri-state area have started SPANISH speaking only classes. This to cater to the immigrants.



And as I said before, Why are our childen FORCED into learning Spanish? I know it confusses the hell out of a majority of the kids, sorry some children just can't handle learning both. This is just catering to the minority of parents who want thier kiddies to be cultured at age 9! Come on! Put it to a vote and I can bet you are in the minority.



Let's first expose them to American culture and heritage, then expose them to other cultures.

[QUOTE]Latin used to be the popular choice

The reason for that was that all medical information was in latin and so was much of the engineering field information.
FYI>

Latin was the language of choice in PRIVATE schools, and was rarely taught in the public ones. As for learning someone else's culture, 99.9% of kids don't give a hoot, and their parents don't either.

We live in a time of global connection. The more ways you can communicate, the better. Be it another verbal language, sign language, whatever. I'm still all for it, however, we need to get the basics covered first. Then we can expand and become "world class"!

Okay, yes we do live in a "global" society, but most Americans are still relatively isolated from the rest of the world. By wich I mean that most Americans, including people in the Tri-State Area, aren't going to Spain, Mexico, France, etc.. anytime soon for a vacation, and if you're there on business you're with people who speak English and many are Americans. Besides you can learn about culture without having to learn a language.

I bet most people in the US don't know that when immigrants come over here to live they are given all kinds of incentives that we are paying for. They don't have to pay taxes, they are helped by our government to set up their own business(why do you think there are so many that own the stores on the boardwalk in Ocean City for example). They have driving licenses even though they aren't citizens, they get welfare, and on and on. I have also talked to a women who had come over here to temporarily stay just to get their kids educated in our colleges because it is free. Their spouses stay back in their own countries to keep their homes there also. I do believe that everyone should have a fair chance, but it looks like the odds are against us at this point and there needs to be a balance.

I have Pakistani's near me who the husband is a Doctor of Agriculture and he is a meat inspector over here. I hope he's on our side, huh. They don't dress like us and they don't put up the American flag either. Makes you wonder.

Didn't Bin Ladin go to Hartford university over here, or is this a rumor. There is so much red tape, and it only gets worse. I don't know what could ever straighten out this mess here. There are way too many agencies and too many chiefs and not enough indians. Even if you are the President of this Country your hands are so tied by all the laws and red tape.

Yes, you are correct. Bin Laden was educated here and lived here for some time. Some of his brothers still reside here.
Also, yes immigrants get alot more 'rights' than the average born-here citizen. That is why all the 7-11 type places are owned by them--they have preferences given to them by the SBA and other gov't agencies. As far as the education deal, that is why some ivy league colleges were up in arms this past year--since 9/11, the feds have said that they have to pay to get educated--and register--they used to just come, take up a legal place in enrollment, and then go back to whereever they came from....talk about global--we educate the globe and then wonder why we have leaks of information....if your allegiance is not to the USA, then you have insider knowledge and connections by going onto our campuses...you do not see our students over there much do you??

[quote]Wanna bet? since the Mexican immigrant explosion in the late 90's to now, almost 14 counties in the tri-state area have started SPANISH speaking only classes. This to cater to the immigrants. [/quote]Sure, I'll bet you. Offering Spanish speaking only classes has nothing to do with offering Spanish as a language class. Spanish has been a choice as a lanuage for many, many years. Nothing to do with immigrant explosion. If they offer Spanish speaking only classes, then yes, that is for the immigrants. I wasn't referring to these classes.

[quote]And as I said before, Why are our childen FORCED into learning Spanish? I know it confusses the hell out of a majority of the kids, sorry some children just can't handle learning both. This is just catering to the minority of parents who want thier kiddies to be cultured at age 9! Come on! Put it to a vote and I can bet you are in the minority. Let's first expose them to American culture and heritage, then expose them to other cultures.[/quote]

They aren't being forced to learn Spanish. They are free to take French or any other language the school offers. I'm not talking about teach them as young as 9, but definitely before high school. Starting at 12 in middle school would be fine.

[/quote]Latin was the language of choice in PRIVATE schools, and was rarely taught in the public ones. As for learning someone else's culture, 99.9% of kids don't give a hoot, and their parents don't either. [quote]Not entirely true. I know many people who went to public schools that offered Latin. Some still do. A young man who just graduated this past year, speaks four languages (learned all in a public school). Of course most of the kids don't give a hoot. They don't give a hoot about anything but themselves. That's why they need to be exposed to different things. Part of the reason they don't give a hoot is their parents. They're too busy to raise their children or weren't raised by parents who gave hoot.[/quote]Okay, yes we do live in a "global" society, but most Americans are still relatively isolated from the rest of the world. By wich I mean that most Americans, including people in the Tri-State Area, aren't going to Spain, Mexico, France, etc.. anytime soon for a vacation, and if you're there on business you're with people who speak English and many are Americans. Besides you can learn about culture without having to learn a language. [QUOTE]

I agree that you can learn about culture without having to learn a language. Took one of these classes in college. My parents gave a hoot. They made sure I went to college and got a good job. I travel every year and so far almost every place that we have gone, Spanish is the basis for the local lanuage. Most people speak English, but some do not so the basics are nice to know. We also have people on hand at work who know different languages because we run into cases where people do not speak English or speak it well.

Correction. They are teaching Spanish in the classroom as part of the curriculum according to the Herald mail article I was commenting upon. Also, there is a Spanish comprehension part of the Maryland standardized testing that the students must take. That is forcing children to learn the language, is it not? These are not middle school and high school kids that have a choice either, these are elementary school children. I have no issue what so ever with giving middle school and high school kids a choice ( I think this is where you are getting confused mstubble). I say this again, learning a foriegn language is great, just dont MAKE elementary school kids learn a language if they dont want to.




Funny when I was in high school there was not one Spanish speaking only class. That was in 96, now I go back to my old high school and there are 3 Spanish speaking only classrooms.

I studied German for 2 years in High School and 3 semesters in College. I truly loved it, and have found it has enhanced my understanding of the various nuances of meaning behind certain words in the English language. But I have never NEEDED it.

I don't believe any foreign language should be a NECESSARY, MANDATORY part of the curriculum at any level.

Its inclusion on the standardized tests required of our kids just makes me suspect it is really a ploy to increase the overall scores of those kids whose primary language is Spanish and have some difficulty understanding and expressing themselves in the English language.

So, you think the ulterior motive might be to up the test scores? You mean like the way we have elimiated alot of history questions from standardized tests because it is unfair to the African American children? I often wonder how the the children feel knowing we dumb down things just so they can pass? I know it does not help their self-esteem..people know when they are being condescended to...
You may be correct in this assessment. I would not be surprised.
I took Spanish in HS and can speak a little...

Come on mstubble all the Hispanic immigrants coming over here has exactly to do with the reason why there is Spanish only classes. If not how come they weren't there 10 years ago?

I'm totally against spanish only classes. I think txex said earlier that full immersion is better. To some extent, I agree with that. However, there does need to be a bridge there. Just as we tutor native speakers, we also need to give extra help to those just learning. I voted against the Spanish classrooms when it was a Proposition on the CA ballot when I was living there.

BMIC - I've studied a lot of things in college that I have never used since graduation, but that doesn't mean that it didn't serve a purpose. It enriched me, increased my problem solving skills, etc. I learned how to change a tire in case I get a flat. I've never had to do it, but doesn't that mean I should have never learned in the first place?

I don't believe any foreign language should be a NECESSARY, MANDATORY part of the curriculum at any level.

Why not?

WVU-Mountaineers - Again, I'll repeat, I never said that the Spanish only classes weren't a result of the fulx of Spanish speaking immigrants. I only was referring to taking Spanish as a language choice.

Not a mandatory requirement simply because I don't believe that studying a foreign language is necessary to being a productive citizen.

I think that studying a foreign language can be of benefit, and should be promoted. Such studies should definitely be AVAILABLE to all students at some point.

I just don't think it ought to be mandated, and especially not any one particular foreign language.

Sry, mstubble thanks for clearing that up!