My opinion as to one reason why downtown Hagerstown is so uninviting is because when you are there out on the open sidewalk you are just out there in this wide open space. A person may tend to feel, (whether they realize it or not), vulnerable to everything around you because there is such a cold, stark feeling about it. There is no shade to speak of and everyone driving by can stare at you from one end of the street to the other. (Not that they are), but it can make you feel uneasy and like hurrying up to get out of there. There just is not a cozy feeling about being downtown to me.

One thing that made me really think about it was the picture in the paper the other day that said something about what can be done to improve the downtown. It made me think of a satellite in space that can look down on things and pinpoint its exact location. It is just such an unfriendly and uninviting place to be. Concrete heaven!

I hope that I'm not coming across as a downtown basher, but I think that it would help alot if they would re-plant the larger trees to soften the effect and plant some beautiful flowers around in areas besides just the square. Also, some awnings would be nice at more of the businesses. I'm grateful for the people trying to revamp our downtown and I hope that they don't give up because of the uphill battle they face.

Downtown Hagerstown isnt completely stark, just take a look at the beautiful building beside the alley beside NBC 25.

Yuo think the people in downtown HTown has a staring problem come to Waynesboro or most of PA once, they cant help it though, they just cant step out of their trance. The weirdest place I ever been to is probably a town called Gap, PA or Ronceverte, WV. I dont have many problems at all about downtown except for lack of gay bars. Downtown Hagerstown is nothing compared to other downtowns as far as being depressing. Frederick ahs sure got it beat though, Frederick ahs got alot of places beat as far as downtown anyway.

Bluebird, I agree; I still don't understand why they took out those big beautiful trees downtown. It was simply shocking to walk out of the office one day on W. Washington St. and see them all gone. THAT was REALLY stark!! To go from a shady street to glaring sunshine like that. The smaller trees that they planted to replace them have not filled out nicely and some of them have died...it really was a shame. At least Public Square is looking good right now.

Oh, here's a Public Square Pruning Fun Fact for ya: a few months ago there was a local landscaping company on the square for several days, doing some serious branch pruning with cherry-pickers and all that. The trees on the R. Bruce Carson corner of the square still had strings of Xmas Lights in them. Do you think that somebody might have removed the lights before trimming back the branches? Nah...they just chopped through the lights and left strands of cut wire on the remaining limbs. So attractive!

I wonder why nothing's been done to improve downtown's square by moving that bus stop. There's nowhere for busriders to wait, aside from the private stoop of the adjacent building, unless they block the sidewalk...and the buses coming and going there can create some serious traffic jams, particularly if any restaurants in that area are receiving deliveries at the same time. Moving the stop would be a very smart thing to do IMHO.

That has been such a mess for so long now- the bus stop area at the square. They need to make up a new one with some sort of waiting area. Thats terrible how those thugs and lowlifes hang there like they own it always bumming for cigarettes and whatever else, some nasty looking characters there too.

it really is a shame, too, because there are alot of nicer stores in downtown.. i think the construction or whatever it is across from the theater is an eyesore... and its been there forever! when is that supposed to wrap up?

maybe it's nerdy of me to say, but the sunlight does bother me... i like Downtown around the holidays... grey skies and pretty lights...

I agree christine completely. I dont see much wrong with the square except for the bus stop. I think its very beautiful- the square.

no, not nerdy to say at all! since i remember those nice big trees downtown from two or three years ago it makes me sad that it's too wide-open now; more so than a first-time visitor because i remember how green it used to be. and i agree, downtown at christmastime is quite pretty, esp. the tree all lit up outside of R. Bruce Carson's. and i agree that there are some pretty nice stores downtown too. pity that downtown just can't shake the stigma placed upon it for so many years now. it IS getting better, everybody! give downtown a chance, if you haven't done so in awhile.

in today's You Said It there was a comment from somebody in Waynesboro, talking about how when they drive through downtown Hagerstown they're so tense. that makes me sad. as long as you're cognizant of your surroundings and you're not loitering on a corner in the wee hours of the morning, chances are very very small that anybody will hassle you.

Alright, two things here.

First of all, there ARE a lot of ugly buildings downtown but a little bit of work and paint would be a noticeable improvement. I just don't get why the city thinks its okay to paint the bottom third of a building and leave the rest to chip away. Maybe I'm the only person around here with a 360 degree field of vision, I dunno. *shrugs*

The other thing is that while there is a lot of room for improvement downtown, some of you need to travel around the US a bit if you want to see some real ugly and undesirable cities. Seriously... Hagerstown has nothing on some of the cities I've seen. Scary stuff.

Hey, you guys and gals are right about the bus stop in the square. That just doesn't belong there. Also, hopefully they will quit tearing up the streets continually so people can get to the stores. Another thing that was brought to light.....the trees being trimmed in the square with the Christmas (oops, am I allowed to say that) lights still on it just goes to show you that there is no working in harmony with those responsible for what downtown does or does not do.

I guess us taxpayers will just deal out more money for more lights!

'I just don't get why the city thinks its okay to paint the bottom third of a building and leave the rest to chip away. Maybe I'm the only person around here with a 360 degree field of vision, I dunno. *shrugs* '

coma, i think i know exactly which building you're talking about, my office was in there when that bottom third was painted; the entire building was supposed to be painted but it never got done and i moved when my lease was up. i know the city was on him to finish the exterior improvements starting at least 3 years ago. bureaucracy must've taken awhile before something spurred the owner into action. at least they're finally painting the entire building now, have you seen? and a nicer color than the pumpkin orange they'd started with on the bottom third of the structure. they've made a lot of progress in a very short amount of time and when it's done (if? when?) it will greatly improve the streetscape of that busy intersection. i'm sure seeing neglected buildings like that as they drive thru town would leave an unfavorable impression upon people unfamiliar with our downtown; a little beautification would certainly go a long way.

though the BUILDINGS in downtown could use some tlc, you have to admit that compared to other cities ( baltimore, frederick, etc) hagerstown is pretty clean... not much litter and random trash clogging storm drains and such... there are plenty of publuc trash cans, and they clean the streets on a regular basis... the worst is when it snows and they have no where to put the plowed snow except right into the onstreet parking! when i lived on potomac ave last year ( yes flipper, i lived in a townhouse on a "rich street") i got plowed in every time it snowed!

Frederick is way cleaner than Hagerstown, sort of reminds me of toronto which is very clean too. You wanna see what a dirty city downtown really is go to Camden, NJ or Philly, the nastiest places I ever been. I figured thats where you have lived at least a little in your lifetime CD. Maybe Hagerstown sucks at snow so much because its so close to PA probably. Oh and please dont disagree with me about PA snow removal or road conditions or else I will have report aliens to the authorities.

um i think frederick is filthy... and i was just there yesterday... trash blowing all over the place, ciggarette butts all over the place, ICK.

i grew up in Pittsburgh, when it was coming out of the steel era, so i've seen dirty cities. its not so bad now though, since all the smog from the steel factories is gone. the rivers don't look so much like chocolate milk now either... they had to spend years literally SCRUBBING the buildings off, but the effort paid off, i must say. its a beautiful place now...

i think that's all hagerstown needs... they need to stop with the quick fixes.. (a quick coat of paint here and there) and really clean the place up. the positive side of that is it looks like that is the direction they're heading, as downtown is starting to look much better!

Yes an agreement! Pittsburgh has one of the most beautiful downtowns Ive been to, was just there last month on the incline too. I suppose Frederick has gotten bad then because back in my fake 'g' days when I used to hang on All Saints and South Sts I didnt think downtown was bad compared to others.

I have to park in a small private lot every workday behind Alexander House, and my walk from my car to my office each morning takes me out the alley between NBC25 and the dirty bookstore. And let me tell you. That alley is VILE. I mean, really gross to where I try not to look down, just look down enough so I don't step in anything. The streets of Htown do get cleaned intermittently with those big vehicles with the brushes on them, but the alleys are untouched. It's kind of like, Hagerstown is a big living room full of furniture, and only the coffee table and the end table ever gets dusted, while the bookcases on the end wall never get touched. The alleys are those bookcases! The city should invest in a smaller street cleaner so they can get in all the alleys; debris back there will blow out into the main streets eventually, but it would be nice if it were cleaned up before that happened because lots of people have to traverse the alleys, so it is seen.

I used to see city employees with brooms and dustpans in Public Square, periodically hand-sweeping cigarette butts and small litter...I haven't seen anybody doing that in awhile, possibly because they do it when I'm not here, but it does seem like the downtown has more litter each year. And dead pigeon parts (there's a falcon or two living on top of Alexander House, and they leave legs & wings lying about for my dog to try to pick up). The same little pile of litter will accumulate in a corner of the brick steps on the square for a few weeks before it eventually disappears.

That's too bad about Frederick being dirty now; typically it's pretty clean in the main downtown area. They have some pretty strict guidelines for repair and maintenance in their Historic District, so that's a big reason why their downtown is consistently more attractive than ours.

hagerstown DOES need to clean up those alleys! i walked down one during the Blues Fest and was appalled... they're almost always wet, and empty bottles ( or worse- bottles full of piss) everywhere... you're right, something does need to be done about that... no more "dust under the rug"

Its alot prettier inside the bookstore though when Wayne is working anyway. I wouldnt mess around in that alley too much, Ive seen people get jumped there and also a know an old man who jumped from the Alexander House and commit suicide named Floyd about 8 years ago. That bookstore needs to be destroyed , what do you think? I also cant believe how they let those nasty apartments full of drug addicts and dealers still stand thats on Antietam St in full view of the courthouse. Theya re right up the street from the courthosue on the other side. Its a wonder they have those near a govnt place. Downtown needs some meon lights to liven things up at night too.

I and my family were in Philly last week, my 21-year old called it "filth-adelphia". I went to college there and don't remember it being that dirty "back in the day".

Frederick's downtown/historical sections are VERY clean, VERY strict rules down here regarding trash on the streets. I do agree, however, that the "outskirts" of Frederick, and some/most of the "side streets" could use a good cleaning.

Flip - I see you've started bashing the WHOLE state of PA now. Please stop, it REALLY is getting old.

H-town's big problem is it is dirty and the drugged out nuts on the sidewalks..the stoop sitters and the crack heads that live in those shabby looking apts. ...and the alleys--I was on jury duty and good grief to get from the parking deck to the courthouse was a bit scary--

I've never understood the appeal of sitting on your stoop watching people walk and drive by. Occasionally I'll run into some nice folks sitting out while I'm walking the dog, but usually they just stare without saying anything! If I had to choose a reason not to walk around downtown, that would be it.

yeah I would really like to know when all Bowman's project o South Potomac will really be done. Someone said Sept. 1, but how can they finish all that mess on South Potomac across the Theater??? And does anyone know what it will be? I heard rumors a fine wine shop.Also, there is a new store going in beside Bones and Cones, and when and where will Leverage open up?

Bowman's is pushed back to 2008 I believe. I think the wine shop is part of the restaurant, but don't quote me on that. As far as Leverage goes, I guess it's still in the planning stages.

I can see why people sit out on the front steps of the apartments. think about it. If you live in one and you want some fresh air. Where do you go? Out on the front steps DUH So it`s not that they want to . It`s the only place for them to go.
No back yard so to speak nor a front yard. They only have what they have. It shouldn`t bother anyone if they sit on the steps. You have a yard, they don`t.

Val at Bones & Cones told me yesterday that the store going in next to their shop is going to be a clothing store. The store's owner said they're selling jeans (and other clothing items too, I assume) and it's targeted toward people aged 25-35. Today I saw the sign going up on the glass, it says "Alter Ego". Isn't there some other business downtown called Alter Ego as well? That sounds very familiar to me for some reason. Anyway, it's supposed to be opening very very soon. The mannekins have been in there for weeks and weeks, and the rest of the space looked completely fitted out. Only thing missing are those jeans!

You talked about the porch-sitters -- good weather brings the Alexander House residents out to Public Square in droves. Hoverounds as far as the eye can see... There are some people who sit on the brick steps of the Square for literally the entire day (entire business day). I'd think that staring at traffic that long would get pretty boring, myself (not to mention uncomfortable on the ass cheeks!). But I guess they want to get out of their apartments, and like McGee said, they don't have yards (I'd go up to University Park and sit in front of the fountain if it were me).

I live in a condominium building and nobody sits on the front steps. If I want fresh air, I go to a park; I don't sit on the sidewalk and inhale car exhaust fumes.

Yeah I know what you mean about those manikens in the window with nothing on, I attend the church beside it(Bridge of Life) and its kind of embaressing for visiors. But I'm glad were getting a another store in the downtown core.

I realize that this topic is toward the "Bad things downtown" and yes I realize no downtown can be perfect. There will always be something somewhere that can improve. But if you go to http://www.downtownlivehagerstown.com/ and just look at all the things planned for downtown in the very near future. I just checked there and there will be the guys from the X-games doing tricks and stunts at the Demcore parking lot. Tickets are almost all sold for that event. And there are many more events planned just check it out. The Demcore Company is going to great lengths to improve downtown. In fact as they said the the herald mail a while back, "WE haven't even scratched the surface of downtown yet" and they know that. Just give them some time, is that so hard??? Also I email the Maryland theater about suggestions concerning a younger audience of show, such as bands that would appeal to the younger audience. They emailed back and said they have hired a commitee for doing just that. So there is progress moving forward in downtown hagerstown, lets be thankful for that, cause I know I am.

http://www.downtownlivehagerstown.com/

Mike let me know that your check is in the mail.

Why would I get a check from Mike Deming? Its not like I work for him.

I've tried to contact Bowman Development on the construction on South Potomac street, but was unable to get any response by email, so I have no clue whats going on there. It looks like to me there is something more going in there that a fine wine shop, maybe some nice looking apartments but.....I don't know. any ideas?

I heard a few months ago that Bowman's project was going to include a newsstand, a coffee shop (I know, like there aren't already enough of those), and a nice sit-down restaurant with basic American cuisine (I'm imagining similar to Grille at Park Circle menu).

I personally think it's awesome that Mike Deming is doing all the stuff he's doing. I know he has his detractors, and I'll agree that he's spread too thin. But at least he's trying.

FYI changeisgood, Alter Ego's mannekins shouldn't be nude too much longer... I saw Chip from Bones & Cones yesterday and he told me they're opening as soon as their merchandise comes in which should be any day. I found the store's website. check it out:
http://www.alteregomd.com/index.html

Looks pretty interesting. I hope it succeeds.

yeah Alter Ego looks cool, I will stop in for sure. It looks like clothes that would appeal to me. I like it when I see a new store open downtown. Thanks for the info on Bowman's project, whenever his shops open, it will create a nice variety. Also I have an update on the new LEVERAGE Night Club (Sophisticated) type entertainment that will open downtown hagerstown soon. I searched the place on google search and saw the design that High Rock Studios graphics made. Check the design out...............

http://www.highrockinteractive.com/portfol...id=3&pg=prj

Ugh, Val and Chip.

Anyway, I heard that Fuel will be playing at Downtown Live. They aren't the band they used to be with Brett Scallions, but they are still a mainstream band that gets lots of radio airplay. They alone would draw a pretty good sized crowd. Just something I heard... but they are from Harrisburg, so...

Bowman's building will also include kiosk type shops, and I believe the top floor will be office space.

I'll tell you now...Clutch will be the bigger draw for Downtown live. That was a good selection in terms of area fanbase and style. Great band.

Does anyone have the full line up for Downtown Live? Can't wait to see Clutch they freakin Rock!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clutch
Fuel
Alter Bridge
Tea Leaf Green
Jah Works
Fools and Horses
The Blue Sky Traffic
Emmet Swimming
Mr Greengenes

Of all those...I'd go just to see Clutch. Not even sure who most of them are really aside from Clutch, Jah Works, and Fuel.

Alter Bridge is Creed without Scott Stapp.
Emmet Swimming was a 90s alternative band, haven't heard anything from them lately.
Mr Greengenes is a really good cover band but they have some original stuff too. The play mostly in MD, DE and PA.
Tea Leaf Green was one of the bands that played last year I think.

So yeah, it'll be a huge crowd... easily bigger than any other event they've had downtown.

Just notice today downtown that a new Lounge is opening next to Ben's Flower shop on South Potomac Street. It is called Oasis Hookah Lounge and cafe. Its not officially open, but they have thee new sign and everything up.

But yeah for all of you interested in this years Downtown Live event in October, tickets are going way to fast. You order them at:

http://www.downtownlivehagerstown.com

Ugh. Although now that I think about it, any band without Scott Stapp is an improvement.

Just out of curiosity, how do you guys know that those bands will be playing at this year's downtown live? They are not list on Demcore.net or the downtown live website.

I'm psychic.

Or I just looked on the Downtown Live myspace page.

http://www.myspace.com/downtownlivehagerstown

FUEL!? really?


and wOOt for the Hookah Lounge. let's M+G there! lol.

It's Fuel without Brett Scallions... so yeah, its Fuel, but a more sucky version.

Does anybody know why Jimmy's Chicken Shack isn't returning this year? I thought they were buddies with Mike or his brother or something...

they were out at Stingers earlier this summer... ( RIP STINGERS. <3) but i was also wondering if that was just a typo, or if they really arent coming back...

Earlier in this topic forum some of us were discussing the long wait or delay over the slowing progress of the Bowman project on South Potomac street. Well it might surprise you as it did me, but as I was headed out to a store (I always pass South Potomac street) and saw lots of men actually working on all that construction mess thats suppose to be retail, fine wine shop, fancy restaurant, etc etc, and it looked like they made a bigger improvement! I can't believe I actually saw construction workers at the site. I heard few weeks ago the completion date was Sept. 1, and didn't believe it, but now I wouldn't doubt to much now. The buildings along there are looking actually nice, looks like new apartments to me, but from what I hear it will be the fine wine shop and other retail. Any one else see workers there today also?

i'm wondering what that "Rennaisance" place is going to be? i know it used to be a sleazy hotel.. it looks as if its going to be turned into something nice... anyone know what it will be, or can direct me to a site where i may be able to find out?

Sure here is the site chrisitne, http://www.hagerstowncondos.com/commercial.htm


Its gonna be really nice, the facility should be done by mid 2008. It will be a combination of eateries, office suits and more, visit the website above.