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changeisgood
Community deserves applause for arts school

By TOM RIFORD

I believe the entire community will benefit, and should be pleased to see our governmental leaders taking the positive step forward on a project that is good for our community. As a community cheerleader and supporter, I am glad to see the project's approvals, and to learn about the scheduled upcoming key-turning (groundbreaking) for the Barbara Ingram School for the Arts in downtown Hagerstown.

This long-awaited project is about more than just offering a new educational opportunity for our county's children (but thank you to the elected school board and staff for the vision and perseverance that is making the project a reality). I firmly believe that this project is good for everyone: good for downtown Hagerstown, good for the Arts and Entertainment District, good for arts in the entire community and good for business.

I agree with the statement that the Barbara Ingram School for the Arts is also about partnerships that will make delivering education to our children less expensive and more efficient in the long run.

Thanks also to the Washington County Free Library, which has announced that the library will be the media center for the new school. Thank you to the University System of Maryland-Hagerstown center, which will provide classroom space for the new school. Thank you to the Maryland Theatre, which will be a training ground for prospective performing arts students. There are many more partnerships, including the ones I have mentioned, that make solid economic sense for the delivery of education.

Hooray for the organizations and government elements that put aside some issues and views and they took a look at a different approach to delivering public education. Because of your efforts, Washington County is on the leading edge of statewide changes in the way that public education is delivered.

Let us never forget that the Barbara Ingram School for the Arts is also about redevelopment of the urban core of Hagerstown. The school will bring 300 students and 25-plus staff and teachers into our downtown at least 180 days each year. That is an economic engine that will help other redevelopment in our Arts and Entertainment District. Hooray for the City of Hagerstown for recognizing the impact of this school and for throwing support behind public education - even if it is not the specific responsibility of the City of Hagerstown's leadership.

This project, which is very close to hosting its ceremonial groundbreaking, is also about a community seeing a challenge, recognizing it as an opportunity and moving forward toward a positive outcome. This project is also about our community's self-esteem. I spoke recently at a service-club program, about what The Herald-Mail has called our community's "backwards lament." This lament is: "We used to be good, but we aren't good any more." Sometimes I have called this a "pathological modesty" of our community - even in the face of so much that is truly great about this community.

It's true that we don't have the downtown businesses that used to be here 30 years ago, but how great it is that this Barbara Ingram School for the Arts is moving forward, just as other great projects have moved forward here: the refurbished Schindel-Rohrer Building, the new University System of Maryland campus, Don Bowman's South Potomac Street redevelopment project and many other wonderful and positive developments that bring jobs and investment in our community.

If we allow the negative "backwards lament" to go unchecked, if we succumb to believing that we will never be a good community, we might as well let all the buildings rot, as they collect dust and broken windows. I'm glad that some forward-thinking people had a vision, and decided to move forward with it; I believe it's better than the alternative.

I also agree with the statistics that show a strong arts educational program, especially focused with specialized fine arts concentrations, results in increased SAT scores. I have read with pleasure about the positive results in students' performances in the performing arts school where my brother teaches in another state.

The Barbara Ingram School for the Arts is also about a new funding paradigm for public education. The cost of new educational facilities is skyrocketing - we all know this. The traditional method of funding new educational facilities (a cooperative between state and local governments to pay capital costs) is not really able to keep up with the requirement. I say: Hooray for the elected Board of Education and the County Commissioners for the open-mindedness in seeking an alternative funding method. It should be praised that alternatives were examined, explored, and a new plan was moved forward.

Hooray for the community as a whole. Let's keep moving forward with a vision for Hagerstown and Washington County. There's so much that's good here, with five national parks, eight state parks, more than 30 county/city parks, 35 museums, wonderful retail and dining opportunities and choices, new higher educational opportunities, new businesses - and now a project that will help bring new life to an empty building, which will bring visitors to Hagerstown, and will create positive economic impact all while helping deliver new opportunities for the students in Washington County.

Tom Riford is president and CEO of the Hagerstown-Washington County Convention and Visitors Bureau.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I personally want to say that I'm thankful this project will actually happen. While I was just in downtown hagerstown yesterday, I noticed two new businesses that recently opened. In fact yesterday they had a grand opening for one of them. It was a new upscal used consignment shop called Molly' fashion plaace. I got a good bargain on lots of clothing there. I also visited Alter Ego, which, well, lets just say I walked in and then walked out. I don't know who they are trying to sell clothes to but a pair of jeans was 130 bucks! However, they are getting business because I talked to the owner. I'm just glad all these new places are opening downtown. New salons, eateries, and honestly these empty spaces are filling up downtown. You can't just look at a certain section downtown, you have to view around there to see what happening. The new Arts school will have a tremendous impact also. Can't wait for Downtown Live on October 20th, businesses down there will get the best exposure ever in all the history of downtown hagerstown. (www.downtownlivehagerstown.com) All the dual highway hotels are booked!
txexpatriot
Too funny! Since last week they told us that the Univ of MD at H-town had no 'excess room' for the students and that Wash Cty Library would not be able to handle the students and there was an issue about the 'safety' of the students who would be 'wandering off campus' ...
Drevin
I have to agree with txexpatriot. If Mr. Riford can please let us in on where he is getting his information that has recently been completely contradicted, that would be great. Transportation, Safety, Food Service ....don't worry about it. They will somehow magically take care of themselves.

The bottom line is that this project is a failure in progress. To put it into the context of an individual taking the same course of action, it would be like signing a contract for a new house with no bedrooms, no kitchen and no dining room and saying it doesn't matter because you'll take care of that after the house is built. I wonder if our public officials who are supporting this school for the arts would take the same approach to financial accountability in their private lives. If they want to redevelop downtown Hagerstown, do so without putting the educational funding of all of the students in Wahington County in jeopardy, because that's all that this 'creative' funding has done.
Patton
I hear that damn "If you build it they will come" voice again. rolleyes.gif
communityhagerstown
"Too funny! Since last week they told us that the Univ of MD at H-town had no 'excess room' for the students and that Wash Cty Library would not be able to handle the students and there was an issue about the 'safety' of the students who would be 'wandering off campus'" ....,Taxpatriot
"I hear that damn "If you build it they will come" voice again." rolleyes.gif...., Patton
.............................................
biggrin.gif Would love to see it happen, for all the reasons mentioned over the past two years.

sad.gif I also agree with the above statements. The pros, cons, and projected solutions were discussed 2 years ago. They pretty much rotate through like we have seen these past four weeks. Same arguments and suggested solutions, different factions checking in, same debate. Some say its all good, and ready to roll. Then someone chirps in that no one has contacted the other players. It is up in the air............Same debate only now the time-line is upon them. It will be fascinating. Both camps are adamant. One says its a go, no problem. The other is like wait, we have questions.

Great concept for an Arts School, not sure what to believe though.....The spin keeps spinning equally on both sides.
strungout
changeisgood
QUOTE (txexpatriot @ Oct 15 2007, 09:02 AM) *
Too funny! Since last week they told us that the Univ of MD at H-town had no 'excess room' for the students and that Wash Cty Library would not be able to handle the students and there was an issue about the 'safety' of the students who would be 'wandering off campus' ...


You have to remember thats what Kid himself said. Doesn't mean its the truth.
Patton
Just like Demacore and Bowman, right, or is what they say Gospel?
hagopinion
Community-
So you have no issue that hundreds of kids every day learn in trailers, learn in overcrowded classrooms, learn with books that are at least 10-15 years old, learn in schools that are falling down, learn in schools with student to teacher ratio that is unacceptable, due to cuts are not permitted to have music and art in their school and the fix is building a multimillion dollar school for 300 students and possibly up to 30% of the students will not come from Washington County? Please pass the Koolaid.

I honestly don't care that they have not worked out all of the details, if that were the only issue I think everyone would be on board. I have a problem that they will have to regardless of what they say hire at least 30-40 teachers and administrators while the schools that we already have do not have enough teachers and administrators. I have a problem that kids are not learning in schools but are learning in box trailers, I have a problem that we are only going to reward the talented kids by giving them a school, I have a problem that we don't have enough talented kids to fill the school so many kids will come from other counties and states. But none of these are issues for you. Again please pass the Koolaid.

"You have to remember thats what Kid himself said. Doesn't mean its the truth." and if you would read the entire paper and not just the positive things about the major waste of money you could have read the article by the Editor spelling out these exact issues.
txexpatriot
I've got to admit the article sounded like a sales pitch..
christine_dixon
QUOTE (hagopinion @ Oct 16 2007, 06:36 AM) *
Community-
So you have no issue that hundreds of kids every day learn in trailers, learn in overcrowded classrooms, learn with books that are at least 10-15 years old, learn in schools that are falling down, learn in schools with student to teacher ratio that is unacceptable, due to cuts are not permitted to have music and art in their school and the fix is building a multimillion dollar school for 300 students and possibly up to 30% of the students will not come from Washington County? Please pass the Koolaid.


"You have to remember thats what Kid himself said. Doesn't mean its the truth." and if you would read the entire paper and not just the positive things about the major waste of money you could have read the article by the Editor spelling out these exact issues.


like i have said from the get-go.... i'm all for some kind of school for kids gifted in the arts, AS LONG AS ITS NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF THE EXISTING SCHOOLS! who are we to take away from kids who already don't have much because they happen to do well in Chemistry, not Ballet??


i think the best bet for any type of arts school is to have a PRIVATE academy with open application to qualified public school students and scholarships and such.

another option would be to try to beef up the arts programs in the existing schools... like an extracurricular type of deal. kids can stay after school to practice basketball or debate... why not voice trainning and abstract art theory?? seems to me it would be MUCH less expensive and much more practical to have qualified instructors come to where the kids already are, in the EXISTING SCHOOLS, than to shuffle kids all over the green earth and call it "school".

there has to be a better, more ecumenical way.
Drevin
This school is just one more in a series of smoke and mirror diversions from the real performance of the school system. To put it into a perspective that you will never see in any BOE document, since 2000, the school system budget has doubled from about $110 million to over $220 million. That's right, we are now spending more than $100 million more per year than we did in 2000!! What have we gotten for this money? The latest SAT scores are lower than they were in 2000 (another fact that they won't tell you), so what is the extra $100 million per year doing? With no real progress to show, they resort to the diversions such as the magnet schools and now this school for the arts. Nobody has asked for any substatntiation of progress for these magnet programs. It is interesting that the first of these was the Fountaindale Academy for Arts and Academic Excellence in 2002. Now if the arts are as impactful as the school officials say, then this elelmentary school should have shown significant academic progress in the past five years. It hasn't though, and it remains one of the poorest performing schools in the county. The school system never talks about this though. It's just on to the next diversion, and this art school is it. This is just an absolute waste of money. If they wanted to concentrate on the arts more, it could be done in a much more cost effective manner in the existing schools as has been pointed out.
communityhagerstown
QUOTE (hagopinion @ Oct 16 2007, 06:36 AM) *
Community-
So you have no issue that hundreds of kids every day learn in trailers, learn in overcrowded classrooms, learn with books that are at least 10-15 years old, learn in schools that are falling down, learn in schools with student to teacher ratio that is unacceptable, due to cuts are not permitted to have music and art in their school and the fix is building a multimillion dollar school for 300 students and possibly up to 30% of the students will not come from Washington County? Please pass the Koolaid.

I honestly don't care that they have not worked out all of the details, if that were the only issue I think everyone would be on board. I have a problem that they will have to regardless of what they say hire at least 30-40 teachers and administrators while the schools that we already have do not have enough teachers and administrators. I have a problem that kids are not learning in schools but are learning in box trailers, I have a problem that we are only going to reward the talented kids by giving them a school, I have a problem that we don't have enough talented kids to fill the school so many kids will come from other counties and states. But none of these are issues for you. Again please pass the Koolaid.

"You have to remember thats what Kid himself said. Doesn't mean its the truth." and if you would read the entire paper and not just the positive things about the major waste of money you could have read the article by the Editor spelling out these exact issues.



HUH,??????????? Woah biggrin.gif blink.gif ... laugh.gif ....I said, and have said on-line for three years, that it was a good idea, but there are concerns. I said I am confused by both camps. Equally down the line, they both have repeated conflicting reports. I am not judging just stating I am confused at the spin on both sides. I am befuddled by the mixed messages. I may stand alone, but I do not see a clear message that all is well in hand.....In response to your questioning my reading habits:... I do read the paper and committee reports. I do attend BOE meetings. I am very active and gather a lot of info, not your typical under a rock person here. I volunteer and work downtown weekly. You are preaching to the choir and off base saying I am uninformed or uninvolved.........It was not my intent to judge others making statements on this topic. I WAS SAYING I WAS CONFUSED and need information. I am not freaking about it. If I get info great. If I do not see any follow up, that is also ok. I have other issues in my life, work, family, & community life. The arts school is not my only concern in life. I have a family.......You are reading into my statement that I am confused, and not on one side or the other. I don't see sides just a topic on kids and a school........I HAVE KIDS IN PUBLIC SCHOOL. I am ever present there as well.................Sorry, I rant when accused by strangers of not being involved, uninformed, & lacking knowledge on my kids' schools. Wrong plan on your part, at least in my case. Just because I ask questions should not be a negative. It is the same w/ any topic on downtown. Ask a question about downtown and u get jumped......Its ok, its expected, nothing new.... rolleyes.gif
Snoopy
Yeah, but...what are we gonna do to help out the high paying employers who are "clamoring" for hundreds and hundreds of people to fill positions in the huge Washington County Arts Community? blink.gif
christine_dixon
QUOTE (Snoopy @ Oct 16 2007, 12:03 PM) *
Yeah, but...what are we gonna do to help out the high paying employers who are "clamoring" for hundreds and hundreds of people to fill positions in the huge Washington County Arts Community? blink.gif


hey! Pottery By Me is an EMPIRE, you hear me?!

lol.
CoolMintDrops
QUOTE (Drevin @ Oct 16 2007, 11:33 AM) *
Nobody has asked for any substatntiation of progress for these magnet programs. It is interesting that the first of these was the Fountaindale Academy for Arts and Academic Excellence in 2002. Now if the arts are as impactful as the school officials say, then this elelmentary school should have shown significant academic progress in the past five years. It hasn't though, and it remains one of the poorest performing schools in the county.



Where can I find out more information about how poorly Fountaindale is performing? My son is slated to start there next school year and I've been informed by some that Fountaindale is one of the better elementary schools in the county. Except for the "classroom on wheels" they have of course
Drevin
I beleive that you can find out the information about individual schools at the Maryland Report Card website. Fountaindale's is at:

http://www.mdreportcard.org/AypIntro.aspx?...1|2701|3|000000
hagopinion
Community,

My apologies, I did not mean to write that to you it was meant for Change is good. I apologize for the mistake.
communityhagerstown
QUOTE (hagopinion @ Oct 16 2007, 01:00 PM) *
Community,

My apologies, I did not mean to write that to you it was meant for Change is good. I apologize for the mistake.


Duly noted. Looking back, I see how the title might of been misleading. I too find misleading or incomplete info in the paper.


Can not get a mom riled, thats all I can say. Whispers: Its ok to come out now. The dust has settled.
Community has gone back inside her school, where she is working for a wee bit today. Not to worry, I am not on the WCPS payroll. biggrin.gif
Drevin
In terms of Fountaindale, I think it ranked 19th out of 24 WC elementary schools in MSA math and 21st out of 24 in reading. That's not too good for a school with the name Fountaindale Academy for Arts and Academic Excellence.
coma
QUOTE (christine_dixon @ Oct 16 2007, 09:00 AM) *
i think the best bet for any type of arts school is to have a PRIVATE academy with open application to qualified public school students and scholarships and such.

another option would be to try to beef up the arts programs in the existing schools... like an extracurricular type of deal. kids can stay after school to practice basketball or debate... why not voice trainning and abstract art theory?? seems to me it would be MUCH less expensive and much more practical to have qualified instructors come to where the kids already are, in the EXISTING SCHOOLS, than to shuffle kids all over the green earth and call it "school".

there has to be a better, more ecumenical way.

I agree, but, I'm not sure that the WCBOE, as dysfunctional as it is, would be qualified to run any arts or gifted programs.

The private academy idea would be good. Just need to find someone with 10 or 20 mil to spend on such a thing.
CoolMintDrops
QUOTE (Drevin @ Oct 16 2007, 12:43 PM) *
I beleive that you can find out the information about individual schools at the Maryland Report Card website. Fountaindale's is at:

http://www.mdreportcard.org/AypIntro.aspx?...1|2701|3|000000


Thanks
changeisgood
Yeah lets just keep building little school house boxes to fill up the existing school soccer fields so that students can no longer play their sports activities. I get it now, its finally come to me. While were at it overload the WCPS system with an another project that has to do with an arts and music program. They only have a million programs and other things they can hardly manage. For all of you who disigree on the existing building downtown hagerstown which will be the new arts school, then I guess you want more money spent to build a new facility for the arts school. Yeah, now that makes sense. I'm sorry, but what is exactly so bad about it? After all, its just one of the many projects in progress to revitalize downtown for our growing area. Not to sound mean, but I can tell that some of you people on this forum have no clue what the WCPS are going through with the tremendous growth our area is going through. It is simply crazy. I'm just thankful that people who complain about prjoects like this don't actually stop it from happening, it will happen.
Drevin
'Changeisgood', in trying to see the big picture for the school system you seem to missing the following:

1) this new school for the arts will not help with the overcrowding of the high schools. If you read the earlier posts about this, the 300 students that this school may support amounts to ony 10 students in each grade in each high school. This is not much help.

2) if you do read the WCPS documents concerning overcrowding, you will note that there is a planned 'East City High School'. This is the project that is intended to solve the overcrowding situation in the high schools. If you knew the history behind this you would also know that this new high school was higher on the list of priorities than the school for the arts. However, somehow in the past nine months, it got bumped down below the school for the arts. So the money that will be used for the art school is actually being taken away from the construction of the new high school, and thus this project will actually contribute more to the overcrowding since the new high school project will obviosly be delayed now.

3) I don't think anyone in this forum has said that this school for the arts should be built anywhere else. The whole question is why is it being built at all when there are more pressing construction needs. This school is a want and not a need. We should deal with all the needs first before any of the wants are even considered.

4) Also, I don't recall anyone in the forums questioning the need for the new elementary schools that are being built. Again, they are needed and this has been shown. Nobody is questioning the proper handling of growth in the school system. This should be one of the top priorities for them. The school for the arts does not fit into this category though.

So your implication that we have no clue whatsoever about the growth in the WCPS system is completely wrong. It certainly appears that ths project is actually adding to the growth problem since it derailed the new city high school. The new high school should have come first then all of the approximately 7.000 high school students could have benefited from smaller class sizes instead of trying to please a chosen 300 at the expense of the other 6,700. Also, downtown revitalization should not be the driving force behind where our tax dollars for education are being spent.
hagopinion
Drevin thank you for your thoughts I second everything that you have stated.

-As for Changeisgood you are correct this school is coming because the BOE and the County Commish is irresponsible with our tax money and our children's education.

-The State and County earmarked funding for Special education over the last few years. The BOE did not spend this money on Special Education and they see this as a savings that they are spending on this school. Wow so we are taking from the children with disabilities and no voice to build a school for the most talented kids. Makes sense to me. I mean why are kids that are below average even allowed an education?

-Also lets not forget that 300 is the top number of students and all of the students will not be from this county so we are really looking at about 250-260 students out of 7,000.

-We are not against building a new school. We are against building a school for the top 3% of students. Lets build a school that will actually help more students.

-The BOE should not be in the business of improving the downtown. I am for everything that Deming and others are doing but our kids should not be used. The first priortiy of schools is to educate not sell ideas and improving the downtown. They are seperate issues and should be handled as so.

-I am not saying that this project should not happen, what I am missing is the priority of this school. It should occur after the East End High School, Antietam Academy, and many other projects are funded and completed.
christine_dixon
QUOTE (changeisgood @ Oct 16 2007, 05:16 PM) *
After all, its just one of the many projects in progress to revitalize downtown for our growing area. Not to sound mean, but I can tell that some of you people on this forum have no clue what the WCPS are going through with the tremendous growth our area is going through. It is simply crazy. I'm just thankful that people who complain about projects like this don't actually stop it from happening, it will happen.


first of all, it seems the majority of the "school" would not be downtown, but sprawled out at several locations all over hagerstown.. also, this issue should not be about REVITALIZING DOWNTOWN! ( that's demming's job... oh lord... demming's school for the arts?? ) this issue is about EDUCATING OUR KIDS. yeah it might give downtown a few "status points" to have a fancy arts school, but we have to take care of the mess we already have first!

why cant they ( at least for a few years) have the arts students meet with qualified instructors AFTER SCHOOL , at the schools we already have?? certainly it would be cheaper, and hey... if the basketball players have to sit in an overcrowded trailor all day and then practice after school, why shouldnt the voice students, and artists??

dont get me wrong, i would be ALL FOR an arts school... i was in the National Honor Society, National Art Honor Society, National Thespian Honor Society, i am a certified dance master, and i was a published poet by 6th grade. i would have LOVED an arts school!
i think if its going to be done, it should be done RIGHT! and from what i've read so far, its no where near right! why do something if youre going to half-ass it, and watch it fail??

i guarantee that the first time one of the "free roaming arts kids" get in trouble, fingers will be pointed, excuses will fly, and the whole project will be damaged.

wake up. this isnt something we should throw together to "revitalize downtown" at the expense of our KIDS!
communityhagerstown
RE: ABOVE POST from DREVIN & CD:

THANK YOU CHRISTINE & DREVIN:
biggrin.gif It was all said before. But with every year and every new thread or newspaper account, important details get overlooked.
Thanks Drevin & CD, great posts:.. Agree: Schools should focus on children & education.We need educated citizens for the workforce, as well as qualified individuals who can pursue advanced studies. And educated adults who will become good parents.
Revitalization would be a nice by-product but should not be the key goal, when addressing the art school. If it dove tails into a partnership great, but not the primary focus. The BOE has enough on its plate such as redistricting. They r spread thin.
They can not be the backup for Developers. (Any Developer, I am not anti Deming just pro education and kids.)

Let me clarify: The concept of an art school is not tedious, it is a good project. The discussion has become repetative & tedious. As you posted, the BOE has documented many important issues on over crowding & the art school. They have said the art school is not the magic bullet. Both are important issues. But they are two distinct issues........And yes, some who ask questions, look at the facts, or make a passing joke, are in deed informed and/or involved. It just gets old. Its been three years of the back and forth.

I wish all success and best wishes on improving, expanding, or restructuring our school system. Wash Co depends on educated citizens. All issues are valid and important. Questions are to be expected. But its become polarizing. So, I understand why some comments have been flip, its human nature.

Wait til they bring up redistricting......cat fight or civil discussion???????/
christine_dixon
QUOTE (communityhagerstown @ Oct 17 2007, 11:00 AM) *
Wait til they bring up redistricting......cat fight or civil discussion???????/


see the thread i opened this morning... some serious redistricting.
Snoopy
QUOTE (Drevin @ Oct 16 2007, 10:48 PM) *
'Changeisgood', in trying to see the big picture for the school system you seem to missing the following:

1) this new school for the arts will not help with the overcrowding of the high schools. If you read the earlier posts about this, the 300 students that this school may support amounts to ony 10 students in each grade in each high school. This is not much help.

2) if you do read the WCPS documents concerning overcrowding, you will note that there is a planned 'East City High School'. This is the project that is intended to solve the overcrowding situation in the high schools. If you knew the history behind this you would also know that this new high school was higher on the list of priorities than the school for the arts. However, somehow in the past nine months, it got bumped down below the school for the arts. So the money that will be used for the art school is actually being taken away from the construction of the new high school, and thus this project will actually contribute more to the overcrowding since the new high school project will obviosly be delayed now.

3) I don't think anyone in this forum has said that this school for the arts should be built anywhere else. The whole question is why is it being built at all when there are more pressing construction needs. This school is a want and not a need. We should deal with all the needs first before any of the wants are even considered.

4) Also, I don't recall anyone in the forums questioning the need for the new elementary schools that are being built. Again, they are needed and this has been shown. Nobody is questioning the proper handling of growth in the school system. This should be one of the top priorities for them. The school for the arts does not fit into this category though.

So your implication that we have no clue whatsoever about the growth in the WCPS system is completely wrong. It certainly appears that ths project is actually adding to the growth problem since it derailed the new city high school. The new high school should have come first then all of the approximately 7.000 high school students could have benefited from smaller class sizes instead of trying to please a chosen 300 at the expense of the other 6,700. Also, downtown revitalization should not be the driving force behind where our tax dollars for education are being spent.


Damn well said. But some folks "feel" a certain way, and facts only tend to get in the way.
changeisgood
QUOTE (Drevin @ Oct 16 2007, 10:48 PM) *
'Changeisgood', in trying to see the big picture for the school system you seem to missing the following:

1) this new school for the arts will not help with the overcrowding of the high schools. If you read the earlier posts about this, the 300 students that this school may support amounts to ony 10 students in each grade in each high school. This is not much help.

2) if you do read the WCPS documents concerning overcrowding, you will note that there is a planned 'East City High School'. This is the project that is intended to solve the overcrowding situation in the high schools. If you knew the history behind this you would also know that this new high school was higher on the list of priorities than the school for the arts. However, somehow in the past nine months, it got bumped down below the school for the arts. So the money that will be used for the art school is actually being taken away from the construction of the new high school, and thus this project will actually contribute more to the overcrowding since the new high school project will obviosly be delayed now.

3) I don't think anyone in this forum has said that this school for the arts should be built anywhere else. The whole question is why is it being built at all when there are more pressing construction needs. This school is a want and not a need. We should deal with all the needs first before any of the wants are even considered.

4) Also, I don't recall anyone in the forums questioning the need for the new elementary schools that are being built. Again, they are needed and this has been shown. Nobody is questioning the proper handling of growth in the school system. This should be one of the top priorities for them. The school for the arts does not fit into this category though.

So your implication that we have no clue whatsoever about the growth in the WCPS system is completely wrong. It certainly appears that ths project is actually adding to the growth problem since it derailed the new city high school. The new high school should have come first then all of the approximately 7.000 high school students could have benefited from smaller class sizes instead of trying to please a chosen 300 at the expense of the other 6,700. Also, downtown revitalization should not be the driving force behind where our tax dollars for education are being spent.



oh, ok, I think I get it now. So one new school thats being built will help solve all of our overcrowding problems, then we wait to renovate the building on South Potomac street downtown for the new arts school, smart idea, but one more school won't solve the overcrowding issue. I'm glad that they are building a new school to replace the Mauganville Elementary school though, now thats something that was long overdue.
Drevin
'Change' you must not have been keeping up with this overcrowding situation as well as you think you have. There are currently THREE (3) new elementary schools under construction and scheduled to open next fall. They are Maugansville, Pangborn and Rockland Woods (? - this is what has been referred to as Westfields). Maugansville and Pangborn are replacements for existing schools and they are sized to house 750 kids (a significant increase from the existing schools). Rockland is a brand new addiion to the school system and it too will house 750 kids. So yes, the overcrowding issue is being addrssed more than you realize. The middle schools are currently not an immediate issue in terms of overcrowding, but the high schools are. Thus the need for the East City High School. However, now East City is on the back burner because of the art school, so the overcrowding at the H.S. level will be here for at least the next several years due to the pursuit of this pet project. Hopefully this helps you understand better where the school system is in terms of addressing the overcrowding issue.
christine_dixon
found this interesting...
QUOTE
New School For The Arts Headed To Washington County Reported by: Nikki Burdine
Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 @08:16pm EST
HAGERSTOWN, MD - Officials broke ground on what will be home to the new Barbara Ingram School for the Arts.

It's due to open in 2009.

Both a regular high school and a school for the arts, the Barbara Ingram School will specialize in programs for music, art and dance.

The school will be another addition in the arts and entertainment district of Hagerstown and part of the city's effort to bring new life to its downtown area.

The state superintendent of schools, Nancy Grasmick, says art courses help improve students overall learning.

"I believe so strongly in the arts and the advantages the arts offer to our students. The ability to do critical thinking, the ability to apply the knowledge they have and performance and their artwork and their ability to work together as teams," Grasmick says.

Construction is set to end just in time for the 2009-2010 schoolyear.

<< Back






did not know it was to be a regular high school as well... that puts a new spin on things...
Patton
rolleyes.gif


Good luck with that let me know how that works out.

rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
another addition in the arts and entertainment district of Hagerstown
ANOTHER?!? blink.gif

What's there now?
Yossarian
You've never been to the Maryland Theater?

And the Library.

And the weird people walking around with shopping carts and strange things on their head.

And the Civil War Museum that was planned, but never built.

Oh, and District and Circuit Court--they're always good for some wholesome entertainment.
christine_dixon
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Nov 14 2007, 06:22 AM) *
You've never been to the Maryland Theater?

And the Library.

And the weird people walking around with shopping carts and strange things on their head.

And the Civil War Museum that was planned, but never built.

Oh, and District and Circuit Court--they're always good for some wholesome entertainment.


lol. the shopping cart people have no where else to go since they closed the bong store.... that place was awesome. you could get custom made hackie sacks in there! bwhahahahahahah.
Yossarian
I miss the news agency downtown, used to be near where the NOPO parking deck is. Great source for "enlightened" magazines and books. And I think there used to be a "head" shop next to it. I got a couple of "smoking implements" from there.
sweetliberty2u
QUOTE (christine_dixon @ Nov 14 2007, 06:30 AM) *
QUOTE (Yossarian @ Nov 14 2007, 06:22 AM) *
You've never been to the Maryland Theater?

And the Library.

And the weird people walking around with shopping carts and strange things on their head.

And the Civil War Museum that was planned, but never built.

Oh, and District and Circuit Court--they're always good for some wholesome entertainment.


lol. the shopping cart people have no where else to go since they closed the bong store.... that place was awesome. you could get custom made hackie sacks in there! bwhahahahahahah.


Just shaking my head. To bad we all couldn't be homeless, then we would know how them (Weird People Feel)
Maybe they should be put in a Mental Hosiptal or Rehab, instead of walking around on the street.

We all human and we all have feelings. Just my 2 cents worth.

It's great that their finally building some much needed schools. smile.gif
txexpatriot
Okay--raise hands who really believes this will be a regular high school for anyone other than 'artsy' teens? laugh.gif

And Lib--we understand the homeless(weird people) we just have to laugh at something...

I am always amused downtown--at the stoop sitters, the ones outside the courthouse and the workers who all seem to get along just fine...it is an entertaining district all on its own w/o any help from the taxpayers... biggrin.gif
hagopinion
Tom Janus, former candidate for the Board of Education, stood outside during Tuesday's ceremony as a silent protester against the school. He held a sign that read, "Big Note$ Wrong Music."

GOOD FOR TOM, finally someone with a set of gonads. Now if only Betty Morgan knew how to use hers we would be ok.
tagout
i thiink its going to be a snob school, just for the upper class of people. morgan fought to hard for this for some reason, the tax payers didnt want it, at least a lot didnt.
rbruchey
QUOTE (hagopinion @ Nov 14 2007, 10:15 AM) *
Tom Janus, former candidate for the Board of Education, stood outside during Tuesday's ceremony as a silent protester against the school. He held a sign that read, "Big Note$ Wrong Music."

GOOD FOR TOM, finally someone with a set of gonads. Now if only Betty Morgan knew how to use hers we would be ok.


I was almost surprised to see Janus there yesterday. I sat in a Board of Ed meeting one night and he was there, raising issues on a wide variety of supposed problems. After he spoke, Betty Morgan asked him to remain for comments that would answer some of his concerns, and not to leave after ranting as always. No luck. He was finished, stood up and walked out of the meeting. I guess he didn't want to be confused by facts, so the best thing to do is sit, rant, execute his freedom of speech and then leave, never hearing the answers he was looking for. blink.gif
christine_dixon
QUOTE (rbruchey @ Nov 14 2007, 11:45 AM) *
QUOTE (hagopinion @ Nov 14 2007, 10:15 AM) *
Tom Janus, former candidate for the Board of Education, stood outside during Tuesday's ceremony as a silent protester against the school. He held a sign that read, "Big Note$ Wrong Music."

GOOD FOR TOM, finally someone with a set of gonads. Now if only Betty Morgan knew how to use hers we would be ok.


I was almost surprised to see Janus there yesterday. I sat in a Board of Ed meeting one night and he was there, raising issues on a wide variety of supposed problems. After he spoke, Betty Morgan asked him to remain for comments that would answer some of his concerns, and not to leave after ranting as always. No luck. He was finished, stood up and walked out of the meeting. I guess he didn't want to be confused by facts, so the best thing to do is sit, rant, execute his freedom of speech and then leave, never hearing the answers he was looking for. blink.gif


he had to hurry home and make his sign so the paint would dry in time.
txexpatriot
Bob--

I have been "spoken to" by BM b-4 and if he left b-4 she could do this to him, I for one understand..

I am not a 'fan' of BM at all...
jelsey
QUOTE (txexpatriot @ Nov 14 2007, 10:05 AM) *
Okay--raise hands who really believes this will be a regular high school for anyone other than 'artsy' teens? laugh.gif

And Lib--we understand the homeless(weird people) we just have to laugh at something...

I am always amused downtown--at the stoop sitters, the ones outside the courthouse and the workers who all seem to get along just fine...it is an entertaining district all on its own w/o any help from the taxpayers... biggrin.gif



I've got a 16 and 22-year old "artsy" kids, even on my limited income, I'd FIND a way to get my youngest in. Too late for the oldest though.

We need more artsy kids/citizens, too many unCULTURED people running around town. What's wrong with hopes and dreams? We all (hopefully) enjoy museums, music, TV, theater among other "arts". How WONDERFUL to have "artists" who call Hagerstown and the surrounding areas 'home'.

And I don't mind it being funding on the backs of citizens because as I stated before, we ALL (should) enjoy the arts, so why not have ALL of us pay for it?
rbruchey
QUOTE (txexpatriot @ Nov 14 2007, 11:50 AM) *
Bob--

I have been "spoken to" by BM b-4 and if he left b-4 she could do this to him, I for one understand..

I am not a 'fan' of BM at all...


Fan or not, wouldn't you at least want to hear the rebuttal to know what to speak about the next time, or at least to have fuel for a letter to the editor? I know I would. I am not a fan of everyone, but I enjoy sticking around to find out what they have to say, so later I can use it to my benefit.
sweetliberty2u
QUOTE (jelsey @ Nov 14 2007, 11:55 AM) *
And I don't mind it being funding on the backs of citizens because as I stated before, we ALL (should) enjoy the arts, so why not have ALL of us pay for it?


Let the parents of the children that's going to the school pay for it.

Why should I have to pay for something, that isn't going to benfit my child?

I hope that's not what your inplying. That all citizen of Hagerstown should pay for that school.
txexpatriot
QUOTE (rbruchey @ Nov 14 2007, 11:57 AM) *
QUOTE (txexpatriot @ Nov 14 2007, 11:50 AM) *
Bob--

I have been "spoken to" by BM b-4 and if he left b-4 she could do this to him, I for one understand..

I am not a 'fan' of BM at all...


Fan or not, wouldn't you at least want to hear the rebuttal to know what to speak about the next time, or at least to have fuel for a letter to the editor? I know I would. I am not a fan of everyone, but I enjoy sticking around to find out what they have to say, so later I can use it to my benefit.


Alright-UNCLE,UNCLE..I probably would stay just to find out what the points are...so I know what to rebut. That being said, BM does not 'allow' other opinions even to be heard...Found if funny one of the posts said she needed Balls...she has a brass set & wants this feather in her cap to say, "HOW good I am..".. laugh.gif
rbruchey
QUOTE (sweetliberty2u @ Nov 14 2007, 12:01 PM) *
QUOTE (jelsey @ Nov 14 2007, 11:55 AM) *
And I don't mind it being funding on the backs of citizens because as I stated before, we ALL (should) enjoy the arts, so why not have ALL of us pay for it?


Let the parents of the children that's going to the school pay for it.

Why should I have to pay for something, that isn't going to benfit my child?

I hope that's not what your inplying. That all citizen of Hagerstown should pay for that school.


Sweet, my child won't benefit either. But then again, my mom pays taxes, she has no children in school. What benefit does this give her? We can go back to the creation of the public school system and argue each generation, it won't change anything. The County is responsible for public schools, thus, as a resident of Hagerstown/ Washington County, you pay for public schools.
rbruchey
QUOTE (txexpatriot @ Nov 14 2007, 12:06 PM) *
QUOTE (rbruchey @ Nov 14 2007, 11:57 AM) *
QUOTE (txexpatriot @ Nov 14 2007, 11:50 AM) *
Bob--

I have been "spoken to" by BM b-4 and if he left b-4 she could do this to him, I for one understand..

I am not a 'fan' of BM at all...


Fan or not, wouldn't you at least want to hear the rebuttal to know what to speak about the next time, or at least to have fuel for a letter to the editor? I know I would. I am not a fan of everyone, but I enjoy sticking around to find out what they have to say, so later I can use it to my benefit.


Alright-UNCLE,UNCLE..I probably would stay just to find out what the points are...so I know what to rebut. That being said, BM does not 'allow' other opinions even to be heard...Found if funny one of the posts said she needed Balls...she has a brass set & wants this feather in her cap to say, "HOW good I am..".. laugh.gif


Man, you give up way too easy. LOL
tjanus
QUOTE (christine_dixon @ Nov 14 2007, 05:09 AM) *
found this interesting...
QUOTE
New School For The Arts Headed To Washington County Reported by: Nikki Burdine
Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 @08:16pm EST
HAGERSTOWN, MD - Officials broke ground on what will be home to the new Barbara Ingram School for the Arts.

It's due to open in 2009.

Both a regular high school and a school for the arts, the Barbara Ingram School will specialize in programs for music, art and dance.

The school will be another addition in the arts and entertainment district of Hagerstown and part of the city's effort to bring new life to its downtown area.

The state superintendent of schools, Nancy Grasmick, says art courses help improve students overall learning.

"I believe so strongly in the arts and the advantages the arts offer to our students. The ability to do critical thinking, the ability to apply the knowledge they have and performance and their artwork and their ability to work together as teams," Grasmick says.

Construction is set to end just in time for the 2009-2010 schoolyear.

<< Back






did not know it was to be a regular high school as well... that puts a new spin on things...



There is so much to say about this post...so let us begin...

"The state superintendent of schools, Nancy Grasmick, says art courses help improve students overall learning." Please check the student performance results of Fountaindale School for the Arts and Academic Excellence---this school is in the bottom of all elementary schools in the county of percentage of students scoring at or above grade level on the Maryland Scholastic Achievement tests...

"did not know it was to be a regular high school as well... that puts a new spin on things..." Yes and there will be no academic classroom space in the building..guess the students will hold classes in the stairwells...See Bob Maginnis for where they will eat lunch and how they will get to and from the school...does not sound like a full service branch of any high school I know about. The cost per seat is $60,000, if the enrollment is 300...if less than that, the number goes up proportionally.

Speaking of the students, presumably they will be pre-selected before they hit the Ninth Grade for already existing talent that has been judged to be "SPECIAL." If you take the view that every child has a talent that simply needs nurturing (as I do), then you will just develop, and to use the popular parlance, "individualize the instruction plan" and no special school is needed for that.

This spending of money from the General Funds and taking away from the needs of over 5,000 students who do not read or understand math at the grade they are in is "Wrong Music." The $2,000,000 to be spent would meant that each underdeveloped child is missing out on $4,000 per year that will now be spent on pre-identified "Arts" students. There will be no "individualize the instruction plan" for these underachieving students who need nurturing.

Why Brien Poffenberger, Tom Riford, Art and Ruth "Leap of Faith Callaham, Perini's, John Barr, Terry Baker, Jim Kercheval want to follow in Baltimore City's Arts School footsteps is beyond my understanding? To use our tax dollars in this way is pork at its best. Additionally, there is lip service being paid to private donations.

Do you know that of the $3.1 million dollars pledged for the North High stadium that over $2.1 million dollars is yet to be collected? The stadium was built with the highly touted "Public-Private Partnership" phrase and yet the County taxpayers are out $2.1 million dollars plus the interest cost of borrowing of $500,000.

As I said earlier there is so much to say and I will just end it here…taxpayer money for the privileged few is not my idea of how to be good stewards of entrusted finances.
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