Well there goes my sleeping in on the weekends. Not to mention my ability to park and unload laundry, groceries and other things. Its all about making money down here anymore...no one seems to care about the residents.

http://www.herald-mail.com/?module=display...amp;format=html

I agree with some of the business owners as well in terms of the timing of the project.

Oh well. Here we go again.

yeah just read that, I don't really understand the city's reasoning for this sidewalk expansion, I don't think its necessary at all. By the way, strungout, have you by any chance know if that new Hookah lounge is open yet? I checked their myspace page, and saw their menu online, but don't know if their open yet.

It appears they are open...but I am not really sure.

Its a weird set up...it just looks like someones living room...with more seating.

What the heck is the purpose of making the side walk wider anyhow?

Why in the heck start a job on a Sat of all days? I would be piss for sure.

I do think the money could have been spent else where.

I think it's bad timing to say the least. With winter and holidays coming up.

I like Deming comment. Mike Deming, owner of Duffy’s on Potomac and 43 South, another restaurant on South Potomac Street, said he agreed that construction would affect his businesses.

“But the job has to be done,” he said.

The job doesn't need to be done. Period

any sign of improvement with the Bowman project? I was there and saw it for Downtown live, didn't look as if it was done anytime soon. Just saw lots of porto-potties. I heard 2 luxury apartments/ another restaurant/ and a basemnt party place lounge. Its kind of an awkward combination I think, I do't always agree with developer's plans. I mean come, on I know our area is growing, but I wouldn't poor all this money into it all at once for our downtown, but I guess I hope they know what thre doing.

Deming doesn't sound to worried according to the paper and his response. Everyone knows he has the money to make it. His major project right now is receiving those contracts for "The REsidences" the new condos next to the MD theater.

The Bowman Project. Disaster.

Those guys are so f'ing lazy. I should have documenting this whole process with a time lapse camera or something. The last few days they have primering and painting the trim to the buildings. This baby crap brown color they chose is horrible. Then the poor guys laying bricks this morning were being harassed by what appears to be Bowman people/suits about the direction of the bricks...they spent a good 2 hours out there trying to figure it out.

This project is so far behind schedule its sickening. And now having to deal with the sidewalk issue...I'm reaching my breaking point. I'm also pissed I was never given a notice about this meeting that took place.

Started searching for places tonight. I'm not in the market to buy a house since I'm not sure I want to permanently live in Washington County for an extended amount of time.

This sucks. It's not fair for us currently down here.

Why should he be worry, He's got all that money.
Hard to tell what other kinds of property he owns.
Not just in Washington County either.

I honestly feel your madness, I would hate it to. On top of that, there is a new downtown live event scheduled on thanksgiving Eve. Plus on November 15, they start construction on the new arts school on south potomac, more noise.

I honestly feel your madness, I would hate it to. On top of that, there is a new downtown live event scheduled on thanksgiving Eve. Plus on November 15, they start construction on the new arts school on south potomac, more noise.
[/quote]

Another DTL? Will this one be in the square as well? What bands are performing? Where can find one find more info?

Here's the link to their website. Doesn't look like they've got the bands lined up yet. Also I'm guessing that it won't be in the street like Downtown Live was (no mention of street closures). Maybe the various bands are playing inside Ava's and the Flo, since the site says that they'll be streaming the music at the various establishments.

http://www.downtownlivehagerstown.com/events.aspx

It's too cold at the end of November to go to an outside concert anyway, IMHO.

More shameless self-promotion.

Okay, I'll try and explain the project and the time line.
I'll also try and clear up some misconceptions about the funding, Deming and other developers in the area.

1. The total project cost is estimated at 455,000. This includes private money of 35,000, grant money of 185,000 and bond financing of approximately 235,000 which equates to approximatley 21,000 a year for 15 years.
2. I point out the 21,000 for 15 years, only because the increase in tax base from the current, finished projects is about 23,000 a year, that is with tax credits that will last 10 years until the full tax increase on those properties is realized. This does not include Bowmans three buildings.
3. The 35,000 from Bowman, Sekula and Deming will more than cover the cost of the improvements in the front of their builidings.
4. The Grant money is being utilized and is a welcome addition, since the alternative is to watch that money go to some other County or Municipality in Maryland. This means that that money would be used by some other entity to better their community.

The project:
1. The reason they are starting this Saturday is so that they have a minimal effect on the Holiday season.
2. If we wait, like some would have us do, the project wouldn't start until January. Since the weather in this area is typically nasty in Jan., Feb. and March, the project could conceivably take twice as long to complete. Thus, running into late spring, disrupting other events and also retail.
3. The first thing to happen will be cutting of the streets in front of the Stube, Bowmans and the alley way from the new deck so curbs can be put in. Next they will start at Bones and Cones and work their way up the block on the east side. They will do small sections so as not to disrupt business in that area. At no time will the business not be accessible. This will limit the negative impact on the retail side.
3. In all actuallity, the east side could be completed up to the alley way to the deck by Thanksgiving. Again, limiting the impact on those businesses. Bowmans project will not be complete until at best questimate, Spring.
4. The trees will be removed, just not this weekend, probably next. The reason behind this is to limit the impact of closing the street to a day when it is not as busy. Strungout, hopefully you will be able to enjoy some of your beauty rest.
5. I want to point out, the 35,000 being put towards this project by the three private entities is more than the work will actually cost to widen these sidewalks. In front of the Stube, the net gain to the sidewalk will be minimal, there is already a bump out that is bricked there now. The Masonic temple also benefits, yet they are not putting any money towards the project. Bowmans buildings will have the most net gain. The sidewalk in front of Duffy's is already wide, thus the only thing there is replace a tree and brick it. So those who complain about the private businesses that will benefit, everyone on that block will benefit. (except Strungout, sorry).
6. Bones and Cones, Alter Ego, whoever goes into the old Snow White Grill will benefit from the enhanced sidewalks that will be brick. On the West side, from Antietam to the Maryland Theater will be widened. Thus giving extra space for Bens Flower Shop, the Hookah Lounge, 43 South and the office area of the Maryland Theater.

Sweets, the reason behind this initiative is the create an area where people will want to be, eat, relax, socialize and enhance the whole Arts and Entertainment Area. I can envision having craft shows, antique shows and so on on the weekends, utilizing the widened sidewalks, and perhaps closing the street to traffic for a certain period of time on a Saturday.
The street will be milled, and the surface will be replaced with a mixture of macadam and crushed glass, it will sparkle in the sunlight and reflect headlights at night. As stated in the article, it will wear to a red color, not the dull gray that appears after about a year of wear.

Also, the City will make sure that advertising is done to assure the people that the downtown shops are open, that there is no reason not to shop downtown and take advantage of all that is going on. Our goal is to improve the experience for the people who come downtown and help promote an area where the experience is worth their time and money.

Now I know, some will disagree that this is a good thing, I understand. To many, if something doesn't benefit them personally, everything else is waste of time and money. But, keep in mind, when the City does a parking lot, or other improvement, it may not benefit everyone personally, but it enhances the area and it is there for all to enjoy.

I'll await the barrage of criticism that I am sure will follow this post. But, that's okay, if I hadn't responded on here, I would be accused of lurking and not being involved. ...............

Well PLEASE let me be the first.

Indeed let's spend all this money on ONE FRIGGING block. Screw the rest of the city, and it's decaying death traps.

Come on, let's be a bit realistic here, Unless, I missed the High Paying White collar jobs moving in. I don't believe there is the population basis to support your artsy fartsy downtown.

But, (damn I'm heaing that "If you build it they will come" ghost again) go ahead, live your pipe dream.

Thank you for your quick response Patton.

Let's see what has the City done recently to help improve Hagerstown.

Wilson Blvd. from SoPo to Virginia Ave.
Oak Hill from RR crossing to Northern Ave.
Northern Ave. from Oak Hill to RR crossing.
Starting: Eastern Blvd. from Rt. 40 to Jefferson.
Jonathan St. from Church St. to Forest Dr. (4.2 million project that has 2.1 Million in beautification efforts to bury lines, repave street, WIDEN SIDEWALKS, bump out sidewalks, enhance the Medal of Honor Triangle. No, and I will repeat that for you, NO private monies to assist in this project where SIDEWALKS WILL BE WIDENED in front of private residences)

Maybe you can point out some of the decaying death traps for me.

Thanks again.

Ummm...Mr Mayor...that's all fine and dandy what you guys are doing for the business owners and I understand why it needs to be done (to an extent)...But what about the residents?

- Are the workers going to be starting at 6am in the morning like they have been over at the Bowman Project? It's really not fun being awaken at 6am by a jackhammer. Would you like me to stop by your house at 6am with an air horn?

- Are the residents going to be allowed to double park to unload belongings and such? How will I be able to move if I decide to? Will the Moving Truck be allowed to take up a full lane as I move out?

- Will more parking be made available for all the residents? By my count we'll be losing at least 8 spots...if not more.

I guess my main concern is the noise. If the work is done between 8am and 6pm....then that's fine. If it's not...be aware...your police department will be fielding calls.

WHOA, there. You must have gotten the impression I cared. Sorry didn't mean to confuse you there. I am not a Town resident. I am playing devils advocate.




Meaning?
The town, will actually use taxpayers dollars for the benefit of the town residents? OH MY!!! You could start a trend there Mr. Mayor, be careful.

I for one am excited about the sidewalk widening. It's going to be a pain in the ass for me and my business for the time it takes to be completed. As long as it takes only 3 months or so, though, I can handle it. If the job drags out to longer than, say, five months, the annoyance level will increase. But everything the mayor just told us sounds reasonable to me. I'm willing to have a positive attitude about the whole thing. At least the fact that we're getting into cold weather means that the windows will be closed all the time, keeping out the dust and (some of) the construction noise. And I really like the idea of outside seating at downtown restaurants on a warm spring evening; we go to downtown Frederick for that several times a year (LaPaz, Brewer's Alley, etc.)

Mayor, you mentioned the trees that will be removed. Will there be some new smaller trees replacing any of them? If so, what kind of trees? I'm still sad about the fact that all the big trees on Washington Street were removed a few years ago.

Today I was over at 43 South for lunch downtown, and noticed the construction workers working on the Bowman project. I noticed the color of the paint, (kind of awkward). Also, Mr. Mayor, for the new arts school downtown when on earth will the construction start? Oh, and just a suggestion, get rid of the parking meters!

what is your business?

Another question about this project: since we're losing all the parking spaces in the Arts and Entertainment block, will there be a few "loading zone only" spaces left behind? With the restaurants and stores, having places for delivery trucks to pull into to unload is MANDATORY in my mind. Washington Street, especially the first block north of the square, is a nightmare right now when you've got delivery trucks double-parked with hazards on. If nobody's thought about this ahead of time I'm going to be extremely disappointed...

It's not a storefront, it's just a small professional office. But I do have clients drive into town to meet with me a few times a week, and of course I have to deal with the potential construction delays myself...

I keep hearing about Leverage night club opening downtown, but where and when? I'm concerned about the new arts school students when they arrive in downtown hagerstown there will be all these new bars, is that what we really want for them to be surrounded by? Maybe thats why they call it "The Arts and Entertainment" District.

I was told by someone that attended the meeting at Duffy's (which the residents of SoPo like myself were not invited to attend ) that there will be a loading zone down by where the Theater parking spots currently are.

Honestly....it's not going to be pretty when all those trucks are delivering in the morning. And the poor fire truck...I think they will still have the little indent in the sidewalk on Duffy's side....but they are going to have the fits getting in and out.

Oh an Mr Mayor...as for your sarcastic beauty sleep comment...let's see how you feel working off 4 hours of sleep every night having to deal with Bowman's incompetent project and now this impending misappropriation of city funds. Maybe you should try to put yourself in our shoes for a month and see how you feel about the situation down here.

Awkward? It's terrible.



This isn't an issue anymore....there will not be any parking meters to feed since they are removing all those parking spaces.

Just like to point out....Frederick still has parking spaces along Market St...and their sidewalks are not much bigger than the existing ones on SoPo.

It is my understanding, being at the meeting on Thursday morning, Stamper won't begin work until around 8. He said his crews usually show up around 7, but getting organized and set up for any traffic measures will take at least an hour. So, he figures 8 will be the starting time.
As far as the beauty sleep statement, I really do understand about being shocked out of your bed early in the morning.
And I do usually get about 5 to 6 hours a night. Usually 5. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, just joking a bit about the beauty part. If you noticed the little unhappy face, that was from the heart.

There will be loading zones from the theater down to handicap ramp at the Hopkins research center.
It is my understanding that parking will be available in those places after certain hours.
Yes, unloading will still be a bit of a hassle, but I believe it can be accomplished without much problem.
We're leaving loading zones over by Bones and Cones and Alter Ego also.

And S-O, you can come by my place at 6:00, I'll have the first pot of coffee brewed by then.

There will be trees to replace the ones were taking out. They will be slimmer trees and be able to grow down and out, as opposed to just out messing up the sidewalks. I actually forget what they are called, but I will find out for you.

Ground breaking for the Arts School is scheduled for 11/13 at 9 AM. Most of the work will be done inside. They will have a truck up and blocking the street early in the morning one morning to unload steel for the addition on the roof at some point. But they will coordinate it with the city and notices will be posted.

The intent of accomplishing this project is to get the best we can get and disrupt the natural flow of things as little as possible. Yeah, there's going to be some bumbs in the road, but we'll work through them and try not to affect peoples everyday routines. That's all I can promise on my end. We will try and make it as smooth as possible.

Seriously....It's not amusing.

Seriously.....I hope you have less aggravation with this project than you've had with Bowmans, seriously.

Finally....something we can agree on. Can you guys fine him or something for the lousy job they have done along with the horrid paint they are using?

I just wonder why the residents down here were not invited to the meeting at Duffy's. Do our opinions matter? You know...being voters and all.

He would have had to get approval from the PDDC for whatever color scheme he chose. As far as the meeting, can't tell you why not. I was told that my City Engineer set the meeting up, I just showed up. I wasn't scheduled to be there. Sorry.

Mr. Mayor, have you heard of a Leverage night club opening in downtown hagerstown? I've seen the logo and design for the place done by high rock studios.

You know nearly as much as I do.

But I would like to point out that the restaurants that serve alcohol ususally don't start till late in the evening. They should not have any negative impact on the School for the Arts.

At the risk of agitating you further, strungout, I wanted to ask why you haven't moved out of that block if the noise and construction has been bothering you so much for the past few years. I'm seriously not trying to be smart, I'm just wondering. Are you on a long term lease that locks you in where you are? Because I'd move to another street if I was constantly frustrated with my living conditions. Even if you are locked in on a lease, maybe the circumstances are unusual enough that your landlord would let you go (then he could remodel/upgrade your apartment and jack up the rent for the next tenant, considering how exclusive your block will supposedly be in a few years...)

Did I emphasize strongly enough that I'm not trying to agitate you? I'm just curious.

Haha. No...it's a fair question and most people ask me that when I start going on a rant about things down here. Im not locked into a long term lease and I'm free to leave whenever I want....but the fact is I love my place and I love the area. Not to mention....moving is not one of my favorite things to do...especially when I don't or shouldn't have to.

I don't think I should be forced to move out when the reasons for my inconveniences could be easily avoided. My main complaints have normally been about the workers starting their work in the morning before 7 am. I mean...that is absurd. Even if I was living in a house in the country and my neighbor started mowing grass at 6am...It would be a problem for anyone and a problem that is easy to avoid. Start at a reasonable hour for the majority of the people living here (I know there are some 2nd and 3rd shifters that likely get no sleep....I really feel bad for them).

The worst event was Bowman having a Concrete pumper right outside my window at 3am in the morning. Could any of you imagine having to deal with that? You'd be pissed too.

The Downtown Live event is a pain...but it's one day. I can deal with that. But now with the Bars getting out of control late at night....the construction...the losing of parking spots...just everything is pointing to this not being a desirable place to live anymore. Just a place to visit and for the businesses to make money. I also agree that this could end up being a desirable place to be in a few years...but Im not sold on this working yet. I just dont know if you can turn a Hagerstown into a Frederick.

We'll see how this goes. I don't want to move...but I might have to.

no one is truly trying to make hagerstown into Frederick, its the people moving here that casuing all the rowing pains, thats all the construction around hagerstown. Its cheaper to live here, yet land and property is going up.

Not to over brag about our area, but it really is becoming congested. I mean do you ever travel on Eastern Boulevard, it takes forever to get out of there where they are widening the roads. The truth is Hagerstown is one of the fastest growing cities in not only Maryland, but one of the fastest in the United States. Here is the source.... These developers are just expanding to downtown as they figure while the rest of hagerstown is "booming"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagerstown,_Maryland

You keep shoveling this bullsh$t and the Mayor is going to hire you as the City's PR rep.

You talk about this new "nightclub" opening as if it is a bad thing? Bad for who? You and Demacore? How many Bars/clubs/gin joints does he own?

What's wrong afraid of a little friendly competition?

And as fars as Wiki, please get a credible source. You probably edited it and then posted the link. No, I did not look at it. Don't care to. Have a nice DAY!!!!

I'm always suspicious of wikipedia being cited as a source, so I followed the link, looked at the source for the wiki entry and followed it to a spreadsheet from the census bureau. If I'm reading that spreadsheet correctly, the Hagerstown area (at 40%) had some of the lowest population growth of any of the hundreds of cities on the list. Most of the cities on the list had 100% or more growth, many over 200% growth. The spreadsheet measured popluation growth from 2000-2006.

I call shenanigans on this claim.

edit - Ack! Patton beat me to it!

Great minds thing alike SMAN.

wow, if you haven't realized the growth of hagerstown, well, where have you been lately? I mean, just to get home fro work annd traffic gets worse by the day and thats a bad thing, and the road construction everywhere, and you call that a bunch of BS??? Well, I wish it was, but its reality, wake up Patton. I'm interested in the nightclub, and no have no idea if it involves Demcore, so just shut your trap.

That is 100% Correct, as I use to live in Frederick for 30 years.
There's a lot of new business in the downtown Frederick.
They do just fine with the sidewalk they have now.

What purpose does it serve to widen the sidewalks?
Or should I say, Who is going to benfit from widen the sidewalks?

To put it plain & simple, I Think It's A Waste Of Money!!!

Who ever said it was Cheaper to live in Hagerstown is full of crock.
Electric bills were raise twice in one year. that's cheap?

I don't see much of a difference between Frederick or Hagerstown.
Food the same price, Gas is about the same price,
Ulitiles are about the same price, Rent is about the same.

Just because you can buy a house a little cheaper here,
doesn't mean the cost of living is cheaper then any where else.

There's a lot of town that's congested, that's nothing new.

Maybe the City of Hagerstown need to fine a better way of directing traffic.
Then widening the sidewalk.

The purpose is to create a sidewalk cafe atmosphere, a place where people will come and spend some time and money.

As for who would benefit I think the hope is that Hagerstown will benefit as a whole.

Is it a waste of money? Personally I don't think it is and I doubt that I'll ever use it, but if it improves the cities tax base by bringing more business downtown then I'm all for it.

DAY1

Well...day one...and we have had workers out since 9am cutting a straight line down the west side of SoPo in the road. Talk about exciting. At least they are working at a much nicer and faster pace compared to the Bowman crew.

Traffic has been pretty light today...a few horns and back ups...but nothing terrible for having half the street closed. If the sidewalks are going to be extended as far out as they are cutting...man...its going to be a tight squeeze through here. I bet the goal will be the close the street permanently at some point. Mark my words.

I can't wait for the Tree removal to start...that is going to worth some video. These trees down here are pretty big (I didn't fully realize until I really looked at them again today)

More to come...

ok everyone, here is a more credible source tha wikipedia....

http://education-portal.com/hagerstown,_ma...)_colleges.html

And Patton, I never said the nightclub was bad, for me or DEmcore! WTH? Why would I car especially if it was bad for DEmcore? The more place the merrier! And this thing about the growth of Hagerstown and it is thee Fastest growing city in Maryland is no BS! Just the fact that were getting a starbucks and just got a Best Buy proves that! Those stores only get built in high density areas that have rapid future growth and productivity. Oh, wait I know what you will say "If you build it, they will come" Well, duh, guess what Patton, they built the Best Buy, and you know what happened next? I actually went in the store and there was other people! You have great observation! They built the Best Buy, and people came! Thats why places get built, so people come to them. I'm so glad you understand this concept, I know it makes you feel very special.

Sorry to nitpick on an off-topic subject, but that link you just posted said Hagerstown's population was 72,000. That is just about 2X what the '06 census said it was (39,008).

No offense, but you have to get better sources. It throws all your data into question.

Well, no offense, but I am not the author of that data, in fact, there are many more sources that say the same thing. Here is another one, I can keep providing you sources the state Hagerstown, MD is the fastest growing city in the state,

Hagerstown-Martinsburg is ranked #40 for the fastest growing metropolitan areas in the United States.... Here is the source...

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/re...cb07-51tbl3.pdf.

I can keep feeding accurate information as long as you would like.

Information provided by Wikipedia?

Hagerstown, the fifth largest city in MD? There is no way that is true.

Just because Hagerstown is getting a Starbucks and a Best Buy does not make Hagerstown the fastest growing city in MD.