And the hits just keep on coming.

its unfortunate that owners have to be responsible for adults after they leave the building. 30 days is a tuff lick for fighting but I do not know the past history of this establishment. I have seen fights turn into murder in some situtations even while the Police were on premises.

Fights turning into murder? My first thought was "Gee....which is worse for business? A suspended liquor lisence or a murder?", but people tend to always want to see more action.

yes at a paticular establishment in the town I came from a rucus turned into gun play just off the property. However the liquor board ruled that it was caused by the propietor for now get this..."when you play that kinda music thats the kinda people you get".

Funny you should mention that. From a few months ago (July 25th to be exact)

http://www.herald-mail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3522



Looks like the need to do the same thing across the street at Duffy's/Ava's.

I don't know...I'm still trying to keep my positive outlook on things down here...but things like this just keep popping up. And Deming's response of “We just continue to do the best we can,” he said. “That night, we had a lot of people downtown.” just seems so...well...unprofessional and unprepared to handle what he's dealing with. It's not like he runs the bar or anything....just owns it so it's hard for him to defend something he likely wasn't even involved in. But still....just feels off to me.

Two fights in one night and they want to suspend his license? WTF is up with that.

I could see it if this was a reoccurring problem.

2 infractions, how about The Baracuda Lounge, the place before Cancun Cantina? And that whacked club that the Moose took over. And Zippers. All had many more infractions and should of been closed much sooner. So I do not get the Duffy concern as it measures up to other citations. I do not go there, but am across the street for music. Have not noticed unruly crowds or a a big deal in the last month.....Its not typical, I think it is an isolated reference to a Thanksgiving event.

I`m glad the liquor board is tuff on everyone. But how can they charge a location. When it happend on the side walk in front of the place. That`s a city street. They removed the people from inside the place. Out in the public areas I see it as not being part of the Bars problem.

Penny will have a field day with this.

It's the bar's problem because they served the booze, then poured all the drunk a-holes into the streets. I'm pretty sure places with liquor licenses have some sort of responsibility to not over-serve patrons. I imagine the only time the Liquor Board takes action on over-serving is when it's brought to their attention by multiple arrest situations like this one.

Hrm. waits.....

That's a bad situation there -- if Duffy's loses its liquor license for even 30 days, it could have a serious financial impact on one of the few new businesses downtown that seem to be attracting people outside of the city core after-hours (and no, they're probably not all trouble-makers... probably a few bad apples). If a sanction like that would be impossible to recover from, and they ended up having to close (just speaking hypothetically here), then the downtown's kind of doing itself a disservice by losing that business in their not-quite-ready-for-prime-time Arts and Entertainment District. It's a lovely restoration to a building in need of some TLC and I actually like their food, what I've had for lunch. I hope the liquor board doesn't actually decide to suspend the license, especially for 30 days. I'm tired of people not being held accountible for their own actions, including being drunk and violent. Those guys know what liquor does.

OFF TOPIC BUT SIMILAR: yesterday I heard about a crystal meth drug user in Canada who successfully sued her drug dealer for $50,000. for selling her a drug that she didn't know would be harmful to her. duh! it's crystal meth! you made the decision to buy it! -- I wanted to yell at the tv.

Nope, I haven't seen changeisgood either, Patton. perhaps you should send out a search party?

I understand where you're coming from, Clever, but I don't know how you can treat Duffy's any different than the other bars over the years that had things get out of control in/around their establishments and got a smack from the Liquor Board.

This hearing was due to the event they had on Thanksgiving eve. This event had about 1,000 participants. In Dec. on 12/22, and New Years Eve, there were NO arrests downtown. So, some things have gotten better, a little better security, education for the bar tenders and informing people that the possibility exists that there could be negative ramifications if the behavior continues.
There were 5 arrests on Thanksgiving eve, from two incidents. As I look back on the past year, I see a definite improvement in the behavior and actions taken by the staff at Duffys and 43. So, things are looking up.

I had never heard of any problems on the weekends with Duffy's, but then again I'm not downtown then. Was I assuming incorrectly? Has it turned into a bad spot too? I'm glad I'm old, then...

I don't think is a regular problem. Like the mayor said, they had a big NYE bash down there with no problems.

You may be correct if your definition of problem is police involvement. However, I have friends that frequent these two Sh*tholes very often and there are fights on a regular basis. Just on Friday night 2 fights broke out during the 1 hour stay that they had drinking overpriced martinis at AVA's.

Yeah, police involvement was my definition. That's what usually attracts the LB's attention.

Keep in mind...there is always at least one or two car police curisers parked either next to or out in front of Duffy's every Saturday night now after 1am. So it's at least taking one or two cars off of regular patrol just to keep an eye on one place. Granted....these guys could be moonlighting or something but it's pretty silly that it's needed on a regular basis.

I will say this however....the midnight urinations on my front door have gone down in volume the past few few months.

Havent there been 2 shootings at Zippers on Jonathan st. with at least 1 dead patron? are they closed yet? I remember the owner saying he was getting more security and a metal detector. I'm sure they lost their license but it took a murder for that to happen! why the big focus on Duffy's and what bar do you know of where there is NEVER any trouble?

Not to make excuses for this place since I've never even been, but it's pretty common for cops to proactively camp in front of packed bars. I think there are cops hovering at every busy night at the Cancun Cantina (and Barracuda's before that). Probably to scope the chicks.

I feel for you strungout. I can't imagine having to live near the aftermath a busy bar crowd pouring into the streets around my house.

samy - I don't think this a big focus on Duffy's. I'm certain numerous bars go to these hearing every year. Duffy's just gets press for this because they are somewhat high profile downtown.

I haven't heard of too many problems with Duffy's, but on one occasion last year my husband and another couple were sitting in the bar area on a Saturday, and our table kept getting bumped by an obnoxiously drunk guy who was very unsteady on his feet. It was so bad he knocked my drink over one time. Yet the bartenders (whom he seemed to know very well) kept serving him more drinks. We finally left rather than put up with this asshat. When I'm drinking a $9 martini, I expect to be able to drink it without some drunk knocking it off the table.

Hag, why do these places have to be Sh*tholes?
As I stated, there have been two other events in the last few months with NO arrests.
Deming has, in the past, paid for OT for police officers to be on or near site. Even with the event on Thanksgiving eve, he was paying OT. Had the officers not been present there probably would not have been any arrests. But, once witnessed by the officers, there is no recourse.
The one set of arrests came as the two were being thrown out of Duffys. One attacked the other, witnessed by the police officers and arrests were made. The other, which involved three participants happened as they were by the door, the officer was with the head of security who was being escorted from collecting money from 43 and Flos. The officer just happened to be right at the door when the fight took place, not much of one either, but enough to warrant charges. Some were given criminal summons and did not go in front of the commissioner, two did.

As I stated, there have been some improvements over the past several months. Hagerstown has strived to get young adults back in the downtown core, are there some problems with doing this, yes as we have experienced. But, do we stop trying to achieve the goal of a prosperous downtown by making it impossible for young adults with expendible income to enjoy their time in our establishments? It only takes a few to ruin a great thing. We all have experienced this at some point in our lives.

As for my beginning statement, we all have been in a bar where a fight has broken out and there had been no arrests, the owners or bouncers or whom ever, escorted the combatants out and peace was restored. Now, what happened after that is anyones guess. I know I have been there and seen that.

Were the people arrested for disorderedly conduct also arrested for public drunkenness? For the LB to get involved, I would think that at the bare minimum, arrests directly stemming from the over-consumption of alcohol would have to be involved. The news article only says that five people were arrested outside Duffy’s and charged with disorderly conduct.

Don't know about public drunkeness. The two that went in front of the commissioner were charged also with resisting. Others for disorderly conduct. Keep in mind if there had been no ot police on at the time, these arrests would likely not have taken place. If there had been an altercation at the Ax and no police were called, the combatants were seperated and asked to leave, there would be nothing to go in front of the LB for. So, Deming does what is asked of him, hires ot officers, then gets slammed for having arrests at his establishment. I understand the Police Dept. stance on this. They want to set a precedent for that block, that nothing will be tolerated when it comes to the Arts and Entertainment District, and to some degree I agree with them. But, you can't put a choke hold on them also and not allow that sometimes things don't go according to plans.
Again, I believe there have been some improvements in this area. All I can hope for is that we continue to see a better set of procedures in place to keep the peace in the downtown core, especially as we see new establishments come on line.

I was at AVA's last Friday night with some friends also. I drove us in, but we had a DD set up to retrieve us later. I was there over an hour, maybe two even when a bouncer informs me that I have to take my hat off. I was confused because it wasn't a baseball cap, it was a newsboy...it's a women's fashion hat, not some thugged out gangsta hat. I said as much, in a polite and confused tone, and he again told me to take it off. I asked if I could go the bathroom to take it off so that I could TRY to fix my hair underneath. I'm not walking around with hat hair plastered to my head. Dude immediately copped an attitude with me and was like, "I DON'T CARE. THE RULE IS NO HEAD GEAR. TAKE IT OFF." A-hole.

So I went to the bathroom and obviously my hair looked like shit without the hat. I was too embarrassed to walk back in the place without the hat so I asked the bouncer at the door, (a different guy), if I could at least go in and retrieve my purse and credit card from the bartender. He said sure. So I'm walking past the first bouncer to get my stuff when he gives me a look that could kill. I open to mouth to explain and again he's a rude, obnoxious a-hole. He cuts me off by booming over my voice, "I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU TO TAKE IT OFF."

MFER.

I'm getting my credit card and my purse and I'm leaving! Shit. Jen finds out and starts pulling my arm to stay and I told her I had to freakin high tail it out because they're acting like they're getting ready to toss me out on my head.

I understand rules are rules. I left with no problem except that I did not need to feel humiliated and berated. I am not a thug and I was not inappropriate at any time, yet I was treated like a leper and yelled at like a kid in front everyone.

My point is, maybe it isn't just "drunken aholes" causing problems. Maybe obnoxious bouncers fuel the fire.

thats funny, because i wore a newsboy in there about a week ago, and no one said a word... maybe the ahole was off that day!

i mean jeesh.. i always thought "headgear" was like gagster bandannas or biker helmets... lol. what about winter hats i wonder?? ahh maybe thats how i got away with it.. my newsboy was a crochet one...

Shouldn't that be the only reason the liqueur board gets involved? Why should it be automatically assumed that Duffy's inability to properly sell alcoholic beverages caused these arrests when the people were NOT arrested for public drunkenness. For all we know, these guys were the designated drivers. Maybe that's why they were in a bad mood.

I would think if they were drunk, they would have been charged with public drunkenness. Sometimes people get into fights just because their asshats.

You must be better looking than Heather.

NEVER! feather is totally hot!

:: brushes dirt off shoulder::

lmao. j/k.

they were so busy holdin my drivers license up to the light to make sure it wasnt fake, they prolly didnt even notice the hat!

They are Sh*thole for many reasons not just the trouble that is there. Please remember this is opinions. I have experienced rediculous things at both places. So my reasons are, the food is not good, the prices are rediculous, Demming is one hell of a business man but his employees are a bunch of no brained monkeys, fights occur much more than necessary, the younger section of the crowd is arrogant SOB's, and if you are not the Mayor or a good looking lady your treatment is much different. I have never experienced many of the issue at some of the bars that are not as "nice". Please also refer to Heather section of her argument. The treatment that I have received at both of these establishments have been terrible. That is why I think they are Sh*tholes and refuse to give my hard earned money to such a place. Please read past post. Overall I think that what Demming in doing for this great City is wonderful. I just think he picks poor employees to run his establishments. Which might be a reason that his staff at 43 South has went from over 30 to 7 and it is up for lease. If he continues to run Duffy's in the same fashion it will only be a matter of time before it will be up for lease as well.

Let's be angry about it.

Welcome to the wanna be new local crowd in down town H/town. (Over priced over rated) I`ll take my little tavern in a small town with friendly people of all ages. and just right prices

<3 the sunset <3

Yellow House, Hayloft, and Clear Spring Legion. J/K

So the rumor going around that Demcore hasn't reimbursed the City for overtime for the extra fire and police protection during downtown live isn't true? I heard they owed the City a rather large sum.

Christine IS prettier, thinner and younger than me. She's a total sweetheart too.

That very well could have been the reason he bounced me and not her. If so, it just disgusts me even more and lends more credit to my opinion that Hagerstown bouncers have a god complex and therefore may contribute to the unrest that occurs in clubs.

The so-called shitholes don't have bouncers to dispense...are they in the news? Maybe this is some lame attempt at PR a la Hollywood.

<3 you too.

like i said... it may have been that it looked like more of a "winter hat"...

in any event, i wasnt thrilled with the atmosphere OR prices there anyhow, so i doubt i'll be back to test the theory...

This is the Peoples' Republic of Maryland we're talking about. You're lucky no one called the cops!

yeah i'm 23, but i could pass for at least 12. hahaha. its sad. it was super embarrassing. they made a big show of it... calling over another employee to have a look, "'zis look real to you??". i felt like an idiot. totally unnecessary.

Wow, the thing that gets me is that you folks are actually surprised.

This is Hagersbush. Not Frederick.

The Higher dollar clients that Hagersburg is begging for are not moving out this way, sorry to disappoint folks but they are following the Rt. 15 corridor, not I70.

Hagersville, may some day, although I doubt it, grow up. It is just going to take a while.

Seem like that place needs a overhaul all together. No I never been there.

You can't have high prices drinks and serve bad prepare food. That's doesn't make a great Bar & Grill.

If them employee's are under 21 they shouldn't even be serving drinks. But of course I don't know what the laws are so I could be wrong on that. You can't over serve a customers drinks, your suppose to pace it out, they start tripping the server need to cut them off. No more drinks for you.

You fired the cook, lower the prices of the drinks, mix the music up a bit or a least have different music each night to attract different people of all ages.

Sound like they need a new manager to start, someone that knows how to tell employees how to do there job and when their not doing their job correctly. Plus start hiring some better qualify people. Without qualify employees that only makes things worse for the business. Then you need 2 bouncers at the front and 2 towards the back. First sign of trouble out the door they go.

I'm just glad the bars I use to work in never had this much problems.
As soon as people got to loud and out of hand, they was out the door before they could say Goodbye.

That's what I call Zero Tolerance Policy

Just my 2 cents worth

Duffy's was a good try. Still hoping it turns around. I was worried it might not be the ticket for anchoring the shift towards an arts and entertainment vibe. But since it was a reality, I supported it for awhile. Slowly I became luke warm about it being able to encourage outsiders to try us. I really hoped it would compliment the Theater and even other establishments downtown. I really wanted it to jump start a positive vibe, that would attract an arts/music interest. But maybe we set up an unfair expectation. The building was beautifully renovated though. And Deming and the City have made a valiant effort.

Also, if the actual service was living up to the beautiful building that would help. Had the food, service, & staff been more consistent then the high prices would of been warranted. You can not have big city prices for a hit or miss product. At least not for long. I enjoyed a couple of special events and receptions inside Duffy's the first 6 months. But overall the main dining room was hit or miss for me. If the food, drinks, and staff are mediocere, you will attract a mediocere crowd. You attract what you serve. The nicer customers wanting a neighborhood favorite will leave. And it won't be upscale for long.........

On a different note, I agree the recent citations involve an isolated incident from Thanksgiving. I would think more education & training would help. They also need continued improvements to create a private security team that is professional, less thuggy. Duffy's is under a microscope. I will also concede that other establishments have gotten away w/ a lot worse. But if you want a nicer crowd u have to have consistently higher standards/service. If the L.B. hits u, changes need to occur.

No matter how u slice it, for better or worse, if Duffys and related properties fail its not good for the Arts & Entertainment District. It is back to empty buildings. Not a magnet for people....................I gave Duffy's a few tries. Have not been to Duffy's in a long time. Just think it would be bad for the city to have it fail at this point......White elephant Alert. That would be tragic. Not sure what would of been better downtown. I love the University, the attached Park, the MD Theater & a couple shops.

Hopefully the Mayor is paying attention to everyones experience here and sees that it is not just my opinion that the place continues to go down hill fast. One question since many people compare price, food, atmosphere with LJ's. How many fights do they have each week?

I've been there a couple times and it seemed alright to me. of course I was with an adult crowd and i had webbie and Mcgee to keep me in check the last time I was there. After reading about Heathers and CD's pi$$ poor treatment I was ready to write the place off until I read this


"It is not uncommon to see the bartenders on the weekends in Ava dance on the bar or walk around selling test tube shooters (HOW TACKY) wearing nothing more than a bra and underwear."

I'll see you all tonight around midnight!!! The $12 martinis will be flowing J/K

I can go drink somewhere that they dont treat you like crap and charge you double for the privilege! AVA's/Duffys is dead to me!!!!!

If I didn't know better after reading his post I half expect to see the mayor handing out menus at the door

LOL!!! I'm just glad I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read that.

I pray he will be fully clothed.