03/02/2008
County considers building purchases
By JOSHUA BOWMAN
joshua.bowman@herald-mail.com

WHAT: Public hearing on county acquisition of several downtown properties

WHEN: 2 p.m. Tuesday, March 4

WHERE: Washington County Administration building, 100 W. Washington St., Room 226

WASHINGTON COUNTY

The Washington County Commissioners will host a public hearing Tuesday at 2 p.m. on a plan to buy $4.6 million worth of property in downtown Hagerstown.

The county is interested in a building that houses PNC Bank and a parking lot, both of which are adjacent to the Washington County Administration building at 100 W. Washington St., as well as another building and two parking lots near the intersection of West Franklin and North Prospect streets, according to County Attorney John M. Martirano.

County Administrator Gregory B. Murray said the county wants to use the property for joint county and city services.

County Commissioners President John F. Barr said Sunday that while the county has not determined what services might be housed there, the buildings could be used for a number of things.

“Right now we’re kind of spread all over town. We’ve got (the Department of) Water Quality on Elliott Parkway, we’ve got permits and inspections on Baltimore Street. This is a good opportunity to centralize government in the city so people have a one-stop shop to go to,” Barr said.

Hagerstown Neighborhood Development Partnership, a group that evaluates vacant downtown buildings to determine what their best future use would be, looked at the parcels in a 2005 study.

Sharon Disque, executive director of HNDP, said the property is best suited for government use for several reasons, including high traffic volume in the area and proximity to other government buildings.

She said the area would be bad for retail use because of the number of vacant storefronts nearby.

Murray said because the county has not decided how the buildings should be used, they might remain vacant in the short term.

Some or all of the $4.6 million for the property will come out of the county’s general fund, Martirano said.

Despite this year’s budgetary constraints, Barr said it is important to at least consider buying the property now.

“It’s kind of a coincidence that it’s all gone up for sale at the same time. If we don’t look at it now, it’s going to get snatched up by someone else,” Barr said.

Murray said the City of Hagerstown was not contributing money for the purchase.


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It's kind of interesting that in a time where public funds are very tight and probably will remain that way for several years, the Washington County Commissioners are contemplating spending $4.6 million of our tax dollars to purchase buildings in downtown Hagerstown, and they are not even sure what they are going to use them for. This type of planning seems to be in line with a related editorial topic in Sunday's HM regarding the $22 million spent on Rockland Woods elementary school. This school was built with absolutely no plan in place on where the students would come from, and as a result when it opens it will be about half empty. This capacity issue puts the county at risk of not receiving associated state funding for school construction and certainly makes us look like 'the boy who cried wolf' when it comes to future funding requests.

Now it appears that we will be following this spending model by purchasing more buildings with no plans in place for how these will be used. The county administrator says that these could be used for joint city-county services. Well we haven't seen much progress over the years in this area - remember the 2+2 meetings between the City Council and the BOCC? That didn't go too far. But now we are going to buy buildings just in case someday we can get these two groups to cooperate? And if these are to be used for joint services, why is it that 'the City of Hagerstown was not contributing money for the purchase.'

Let's get a plan in place first before we buy the buildings. Or better yet, let's just move all of the county services out to the new Rockland Woods elementary school where there will be plenty of room at no additional cost.

Aside from your last comment I would assume you are interested in some serious discussion on this issue, or at minimum some serious public disclosure. For the recprd I served on the 2+2 in its infancy while on City Council and during that time we accomplished many of the tasks that were put before us. I would also state now, os there is no confusion in the future, I also -played a role in looking into the purchase of the property in question, and would disagree that there is no plan, or at minimum vision for the use of this property, just as there was vision in purchasing the Pheonix Color building less than a year ago for the extension of future cherrif needs, central booking, etc... which will improve efficiencies in operations over time. As was alluded to in the article and your comments, there is a need for greater city/county cooperation on the provision of services and at a minimum consolidation of efforts in the provision of county services especially as it relates to the spread out manner we seemed to be continuously headed in. Further, it is my opinion that past discussion of moving county services well away from the county seat (City) is hte wrong direction to take in improving the long term stability of our existing urban centers. This effort I have proclaimed for several years now and actually have stated on numerous occassions in public session as both a council member and now commissioner, that this area would be the logical location for such county consolidation efforts especially as it relates to the indirect improvements it will achieve for improvements to surrounding private investment, current adjoining county and other public related services and the movement of other facilities to the right locations for improved citizen services.

Although I don't have enough time to share all the details of this plan via this forum at this very moment, i would be happy to tlak directly with you about it, or try to work up something I could cut and paste into here in the near future for further scrutiny. After all, I am not naive enough to believe that only one perspective is the right one, nad believe in full public disclosure and input so that every thought can be considered adn commented on. Think of it as a virtual public charrette, so that we can consider all ideas in the process, before it is built and has to be filled. One misconception that is missed in the article and your comments is that much of the land is vacant, it encompasses basically an entire city block, much of our serivces are already there, and the some of the buildings that do exist are already occupied with paying tenants.

So how much is this going to cost me??????

Typical politician taking care of his direct constituents (sp) and screwing the rest of the county. Rah Rah, lets take care of the city.
Remember Kid, you were elected as a COUNTY Commissioner.

Alright Kid. In the interest of full public disclosure please cut and paste your ideas here so that we may laugh scrutinize them for further discussion.

Patton

Not treally sure how this does or does not directly benefit a certain segment of our County population. Maybe you thin kCoutny govt should keep moving into small parcels all over the place, or buy up Allghany Power site and move completely away existing service areas.I know who I represent, which is why I will be at Fire Co meeting in Boonsboro later this evening and at the Sharpsburg M&C meeting at 7:30 tonight. Actually I have scheduled to meet with all 27 Fire and Rescue Co. over the next 6 months to better understand the needs of this countywide system, just like I attend the meetings of the various towns every month, and public hearings, like the one I will be at on Thursday night at Pleasant Valley Elementary.

Fact is I was the only Commissioner to speak at and attend redistricting meetings like the one in Keedysville, and the only one to attend the Hancock parade over the summer. Not to say the others don't put in their sahre of time, as I certainly believe they each do in their own way, just that for some reason there is this standard of having to defend the diversity of my representation that for some reason others are not held to. If we ever work out the ability to get additional park land and recreational space developed in Clear Spring that has been part of some discussions, I assume you will say the same thing about John or Terry. Also, I guess when we resolve the improvements to the traffic patterns needed at the Smithsburg school complex, that have been brought up numerous times over the last 2 decades, you will have to blame Bill for that, even though my correspondence through attendance at the M&C meetings has helped to get everyone to the table to take a new look at it.

Any time you want to debate this in a more appropriate thread, feel free to start one and I will be more than happy to oblige. Until then, the only thing typical in here is the assumptions in your response.

It would be good to know what the BOCC is thinking about in terms of building acquisitions. It would be even better if they would publish any thoughts or plans before a public hearing actually takes place - especially when that hearing is set for the extremely accommodating time of Tuesday afternoon.

It's understandable that the county would purchase the Phoenix property adjacent to the existing jail facility. It is unfortunate that crime keeps increasing and thus so does the need for jail space. However, purchasing buildings ahead of the proper planning process for consolidated city/county operations does not seem to make sense. Why is more space NEEDED when it is a CONSOLIDATION of services? If these operations are being consolidated, there should be much that can be leveraged to increase efficiency and thus DECREASE the overall staffing needs. So overall, LESS space should be required than is currently being used.

The issue of a centralized location for everything is a legitimate one. However, have all avenues been explored to maximize use of ALL city and county buildings used for these services? If this has been anlyzed thoroughly, then it would be great to see the study that was done to draw this conclusion. It would also be great to see the plans that have been developed for the use of all of the smaller city/county buildings that reportedly exist downtown that will become vacant upon moving their operations to the new buildings. Are these buildings going to follow the Lowes' model of abandonment with no future plans or are there any real prospects that these buildings can be sold and draw taxpaying businesses downtown?

This situation also brings up an interesting comparison. Supposedly we'll be able to buy almost an entire city block with several large buildings for $4.5 million, but from the same budget at the same time, we'll be spending about $8 million to remodel a relatively small older building into a school downtown that has neither classrooms, a library or a cafeteria. Doesn't it seem like we've been taken just a little bit on the cost of a school that was given to us? And talking of a lack of planning, the Rockland Woods elementary school, which cost $22 million, will have well over 300 empty seats when it opens. Yet there was a need to spend another $8 million to build another school for supposedly 300 students (the same people that said Rockland Woods would be nearly full when it opened are the same ones who are saying that 300 students will come to the new school for the arts - that shuld be interesting to watch). Forget about the additonal operating expenses that will result, just think about all of the incorrect assumptions that were made and the consistent lack of effective planning that has occurred. Effective construction/operations planning does not seem to be a real attribute of Washington County government, especially for the schools. So it would make a lot of sense if the county would just take a step back and look to see how deep the water is before they push us in again by spending another $4.5 million.

Seems like the situation of purchasing these buildings is beginning to sink in. Why did we buy them and why did we pay so much?

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03/11/2008
Perhaps it is location, location, location?
County to spend more than twice appraised amount on property
By TIM ROWLAND
timr@herald-mail.com

All right, just so we're clear: A company buys a downtown Hagerstown property in 2006 near the height of the real estate market for $1.5 million. Then the housing bubble bursts, the floor drops out from under prices and the Washington County Commissioners move to buy that same property - for $3 million.

Makes sense.

Oh, did I mention I have a house I'm trying to move? I was going to wait until the market bounced back in about 2025, but what the hey - if the county's in a buying mood, may as well make a pitch.

All right, it's not in the best neighborhood, but I'm thinking it could be the new office for the department of probation and parole. If they didn't have to drive so far, criminals might be able to reduce the size of their carbon footprint.

The county is actually buying a cluster of properties for a total of $4.6 million which, the way real estate is going right now, seems as if it would be a sum sufficient to purchase the entire West End.

The $3 million property had an assessed value of $1.4 million - but then we all know how appraisals have been dropping in recent years, right?

The difference, commissioners say, is that the building is undergoing extensive renovations that will add an additional $1.5 million in value.

Great. We elect commissioners and what we get is the cast of "This Old House." I hope Norm Abram stops by for a cameo, to build them a new hutch or something.

It's fitting that the property is currently a bank, because that's what the county needs to hold all the spare cash it apparently has lying around. I suppose it's not a bad idea to acquire the building next door to the current county office building - it's convenient for customers of the county to have all the yo-yos under one roof. And if we could be confident the county would gather in all the scattered offices they have now and sell the buildings they are currently operating in, it conceivably could be a good deal.

But I'm not holding my breath for the "for sale" signs to go up around all the county's satellite offices once this deal is complete.

And the obvious problem with more office space is that pretty soon you start looking around for more people to hire to put in those offices. I'd be more comfortable if I knew that they were going to use the extra space to put in air hockey tables or something.

The other problem was that it was next to impossible to find out from whom the properties were being purchased. We discovered one name and a bunch of murky LLCs, the principles of which were unknown.

If they have no connection with the county, that's fine. But the fear is that if they do, the county might not drive as hard a bargain as it otherwise might.

For the county's own protection, you would think the commissioners would have been front and center with the names of all involved.

And they wonder why home rule failed.

Still, I was curious to see firsthand this property that you and I are soon to be in possession of. I wandered into the bank. Seemed nice. I hope they keep the plants.

But for that money, they could have bought 4 1/2 sally ports at the courthouse. Or, dare I say, put a little more toward highway projects on the east side of the city. Or funded a school. Or shaved taxes a whit.

Ah, no matter. I suppose you need the office space to house a bureaucrat whose responsibility it is to tell us that the county doesn't have enough money to pay for any of the above.

I'm not a big Tim Rowland fan, but he hit the nail on the head with this.

SMAN, same here. Occassionaly he writes a good piece, and this one seems to be pretty accurate. What has not been mentioned in this whole process was if an appraisal was ever done. Did the county pay the asking price without even investigating the value of these properties? With real estate the way it is now, you would think that things would cost much LESS now thatn they did in 2006. It just seems like our BOCC did not perform a proper investigation on this whole topic before they spent our money. I wonder if any of them would act the same way with their own money.

A pig in the poke is what they bought.

Business as usual in Washco

A related letter to the editor from today's paper:

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Property deal is a disgrace

To the editor:

Congratulations, Washington County. It appears that we are now the new owners of some very prime not to mention pricey commercial real estate.

I am of course referring to the county's purchase of the PNC building along with other parcels. I do hope this deal gives everyone a clear insight into why your properties have been reassessed in a declining real estate market and the commissioners' unwillingness to reduce the new, increased tax rates, although they could.

It is all very simple and can be summed up in two words - complacency and ignorance. Complacency falls squarely on the back of all citizens for failure to do whatever it takes to control your government. As for the ignorance, well, that falls squarely on the backs of the commissioners and officials, minus Bill Wivell and Terry Baker.

I think it is a real shame when we have so many citizens who can barely afford their, food, heat, gasoline, health care and a host of other needs, yet our County Commissioners, again minus Wivell and Baker, can simply put our county into a $4 million-plus debt.

Given that the state of Maryland is facing a major deficit, I can only assume that here in Washington County we are apparently well into the black. Given this I will work closely with state government to assure them that we can truly do without any state funding for the time being.

Such funds that would have come to Washington County would perhaps be better spent in another, one not as economically sound as we must be.

Citizens of Washington County, you have two qualified commissioners currently in office. You also have one at large, this being John Munson.

Perhaps in the next election you will all be less complacent and will make your choices by replacing ignorance with intellect in our commissioner lineup. As for home rule, it will never have a chance, which is actually a very good thing. This expenditure of your tax dollars did nothing for the citizens of our county other than to create debt, thus providing further justification for property tax increases.

Personally, I believe this opens the door for personal legal action against three of the current commissoners, should anyone desire to do so. As for John Barr, Kristin Aleshire and James Kercheval, your actions are in no way justifiable, so please spare us any attempt to try to do so. That would do nothing more than fuel the already existing disgust and disgrace.

Randy A. Breeden
Williamsport


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It would be good to see some justification or master plan that has been developed that would explain not only the logic behind this purchase but also the reasoning for the apparent premium that we paid for these properties. It doesn't seem like downtown Hagerstown properties would command a premium.

A pretty harsh critique on Kid but I do think it is somewhat justifiable. Any rebuttal Kid?

Also for Kid. If our property values are constantly dropping like a lead ballon why cant the commissioners readjust the property taxes
we are paying on our homes? If they raised property taxes because the assesments went up in previous years why are we stuck paying higher property taxes on properties that aren't worth what they are taxing them at.

I am sure there is some reason for this but I just wanted some clarification from someone who would know

there are some houses in my neighborhood they could probably buy! They've been on sale for almost a year!

Speaking of empty buildings that the county might want:

I agree w/txexpatriot: Let the county jump start the the housing industry.
Several houses in my neighborhood have been on the market for a year. Not to mention the occasional grocery store that is replaced by new centers. There is a newer development near my neighborhood that is mostly empty. Let the city or county buy this stuff.

"Let the county work for us."

I think Kid is busy talking to the 1700 employees out at the airport who depend on the airport for their job. Or was it 3700 employees.

I doubt he'll really explain why we paid double the appraised amount on this property, how we can afford to do it now, and who is getting the cash (names, not LLC's).

I voted for Kid. I expected more.

Sorry.

I would give Mr. Breeden more attention and think his letter to be credible if he indeed had his facts straight.
Again, someone giving an opinion on a matter and using the wrong information to base an opinion on.
The County are purchasing these properties with savings from other accounts where the money is readily available. Not from issuing more debt. Hence, Breeden's remarks about creating a debt are wrong and he should write another letter to retract that statement.
Just for clarification, Aleshire did, in his statements to the County board, outline a re-use and re-sale of other county buildings which would recoup the expenditure. I noticed that the paper did not put that in the article, neither did Tim. (whom I am a fan of)
Having said that, do any of you actually now where the properties are located that the County is buying?

I asked a fellow this on Tues., he ofcourse did not have any idea. Just wondering.

Just a supposition here.. but I see the County paying over market value to buy property, but taking UNDER market value when they SELL property.

Then, we'll hear all the excuses about why this was done.

So... they take Permits and Inspections OUT of the County Administration Bldg, what? 5 yrs ago, and put them in the old supermarket bldg at 80 W Balto. ST, then they move them back to the County Admin Bldg (or probably the adjacent bank). Now, what are they going to do with the 80 W Balto. St property (hint: sell it for under market value).

So Mr. Mayor, since this was hinted at a consolidation of County/City Departments, what Departments is the City looking into moving at the new properties?

There has been some private discussion of what services we can cooperate on and free up some space for City Hall.

There are ways of doing some consolidation without hurting any one agency or employees of said agency. Too early in the talking stages to release a plan that would make sense.

My biggest concern is we need to make sure the citizens understand what is happening and hopefully the HM will cover the plan, use some of that investigative know how to inform the citizens properly.

I want to add one thing. There are people who will claim that buying these properties will reduce the overall tax base for the area, true to a point. But, the ability to re-develope an entire block basically will only help to increase the overall tax base in the area. Taking blighted vacant land, old buildings that have suffered fire damage and builidng a new complex that will enhance the area, combine some staff, city and county, and kick start basically, as the paper called it, war zone looking area, is a benefit to not only Hagestown, but all of wash. co.'s citizens.

I'll keep you posted.

Thank you sir.

And, I agree, anything that will make the downtown viable is definitely something to consider. If this brings more businesses, it can't be all bad.

Mayor Bob, are you saying that Washington County has absolutely no debt then? If that is not the case, then spending $4.6 million on something instead of paying off the debt with money that is "readily available" keeps WC in a debt that could have been reduced. Perhaps this guy didn't word it too well when he wrote the letter, but the intention is pretty clear. If the money was 'readily available', why not reduce some taxes then if we have such a surplus? Why not pay off some debt instead of buying these buildings/lots? Did the county pay the 'asking price' as soon as these properties went on sale? If these offices were for joint city/county operations, why didn't the city chip in? Many unanswered questions.

In terms of a reuse/resale of the existing county-owned buildings, considering that real estate is not moving so well right now, nor has it been in the downtown area for some time, what are the realistic chances of selling these buildings to tax paying entities? I'm sure that Lowes also had a resale plane for their buildings when they moved twice. Without seeing Commissioner Aleshire's plan, let's just hope it is more practical than Lowes' plan.

Drevin, I never said Wash. Co. has no debt, and Mr. Breeden didn't elude to this either. I meerly pointed out he was wrong in his letter as to issuing new debt for the purchases.

The City didn't chip in..........yet. There is much to be done between now and when anything is built.

I beleive everyone, and I mean everyone, is betting on the market not being this lousey next year or the next. This is government, you can't snap you fingers and make something happen, it takes forever. LOL

Mayor, whatever debt WC incurrs this year through the issuance of bonds, etc will be $4.6 million more than it should have been had we not bought the buildings. We could have used that money to pay off the obligations that we have already undertaken such as the three new elementary schools.

In terms of the real estate turnaround, have you been watching the news any? The banks are basically a house of cards with all of their 'off the books' debt. There are billions more to be written off, and that is just on the real estate side. The next shoe to drop will be the massive consumer debt that has been accumulated in the form of Home Equity loans and credit cards. People who borrowed against the inflated values of their houses will not be able to recoup what they thought they would when they go to sell these houses. This led to borrowing against their credit cards to pay the HE loans. The economy is in quite a mess and the real estate market will not be improving anytime soon. Just look at all of the estimates that have taken place over the past 9 months. They all saw a relatively short turndown soon to be followed by estimates of longer turndowns. This is not ending anytime soon. When all is said and done, the banks just don't have the money to lend. What little they do have will be given out cautiously.

In terms of downtown, how were commercial real estate sales during the boom that just preceded the bust we are in? In the best of times, it didn't look like downtown was too successful at attracting business that would be needed to occupy the soon-to-be-vacant county buildings. How many large, tax-paying businesses located downtown since 2000? How many have left?

When all is said and done, this purchase is just another influx of county money in an attempt to revitalize downtown. This is no different than the school for the arts. If there really was a need for that school, there certainly were more cost-effective solutions outside of the downtown area that could have actually provided all of the needs for a school (transportation, cafeteria, library, classrooms). Now we have bought even more downtown real estate with the hopes that we can develop it and attract more businesses. How is our track record at doing that?

Sorry for the delay, I've been out dealing with some health issues lately. Anyway, I read the posts since my last visit (for Yoss) and would provide the following comments, that is as long as its o.k. with Mr. Breeden...

Drevin-

I accept your point about debt and would use it as one of several reasons I voted against the budget last year. At teh same time if we are to talk about paying down debt we cannot also assume that debt is not being paid down by the County each year.

I also understand your argument about the 8 million for BISFA not being questioned from the Herald or any other faction as it relates to the logistics before investing in redevelopment and operations, but to be honest it does NOT come from the same budget, and you know that. It comes from the BOE budget which is under the authority of a seperate elected body.

I have heard the arguments on the Pheonix Color Building, but after talking with some of the powers that be at the Herald today, I asked why the Pheonix Color purchase process was not comitted to such news scrutiny, with little real explanation offered. No a single soul raised an eyebrow over that purchase, and I would only ask, why is that not as single person or the Herald asked about the purchase of that building for 5.3 million and subsequent plans that would cost 40 million to create bed space for about another 400 inmates, which will be at a construction cost alone of more than 100,000 per inmate "seat" not to mention operating costs and yes, debt. To put that in perspective tha avg school seat is around 35,000 or roughly a third.

So why is then that the Herald led no charge on our use of public funds to benefit the criminal population not subject to the same scrutiny as that same govt trying to improve services to its law-abiding citizens? IS it just me or does that seem odd, and no I don;t buy the oh well, crime is going to get worse so we have to do something bit, as it is obvious what we have been is wrong and only costing us more.

Drevin, when I sat on the 2+2 on the city side I posed the suggestion of looking at all city/county depts and doing a full analysis of any further cooperative efforts or consolidation that could be considered and that proposal never received traction. I have read the Herald's countless articles and editorials encouraging this effort and encouraging the county to be committed to downtown, and I have heard all too often the "oh well" it will never happen so any effort to actually do something about it is a bad idea, so why do anything attitude, and at the first real opportunity of this occuring, it is portayed poorly and seemingly underhanded by the very people that have so often promoted it. Where is the Chamber and Chief and Greater Hagerstown, and nearly every other faction of movers and shakers that have cllaed for this type of effort when the swell of public response is now landing...quieted by the hesitant news response (which by the way it was conveyed that the stories printed provided no impression to the public one way or the other), quieted b/c it wasn't their idea...who knows.

I also would like to respond on two other items you point out

1. I accept blame that when asked the question, what are your plans, we failed to respond appropriately, and call for the BOCC to take up some public measure as I have already stated to provide a public forum for public information that could be televised and presented in a fashion that more closely mirrors the visions that we share for creating more effective governing services through this process. Bill was right when he said that simply buying some building won't make these things we have all heard and talked about for so long simply happen, I agree, it will take much more effort on our part as well as citizens and staff to develop a long the long range visions we want to achieve.

2. I sat on the Water/Sewer Committee that reviewed our collectives systems and heard the discussion of consolidation, I just heard in budget presentation yesterday how consolidation will affect manpower at the new emergency center and I watched the budget cycle whe the city/county combined purchasing and I can tell you that there is little if any savings identified in personnel costs, which is the largest component, whether you like that answer or not, it is the simple truth. The savings are found more in the efficiency in provision of the service and location of operations. Folks at the Herald have cited examples in the past, but if you really study those examples you will find the conclusion I have provided is most often the reality that unfolds.

I read Mr. Breeden's letter, and he is completely entitled to that opinion as every citizen is, but as I have received comments on this issue I have replied to every citizen that I am more than willing to sit down and talk detail and truth about this issue. I can;t answer why the County did not buy the property in 2006 when it was obviously cheaper, possibly that was the same time the move to Alleghany Power site was being considered. I guess that is the frustrating part about his letter, is there is no room for discussion, just as I realized after my conversation with the Herald that there is no accountability in being consistent in reportin the two scenarios provided. BTW- what did he mean that Jon Munson is at large commissioner?

One last note I will make in reference to Drevin's tax question. It is unfair to state the City and County have done nothing to address rising assesssments in an effort to save citizens on taxes due to this occurence, as I have been part of both boards in implementing a reduction in the assessment cap from 10% to 5%, which to put in perspective was a net revenue loss to the County of more than 5 million this year (some figures are closer to 8 million) or if you want to look at it from the other side, a savings of that additional 5% in assessment increase that would have otherwise occured. Further, we have directed departments and agencies to hold the line on all possible cost increases to each budget trying to achieve no more than 1% overall increase, and so far I think they have done quite well in doing so.

I know these comments may offend some folks, but that was not my intent.

Kid, thanks for the response and I appreciate your points. I still question some of the items associated with this. First, prior to purchasing these buildings, was anything done to actually plan on how they would be used? What would be the cost of fixing them up? What are the realistic chances of selling the existing county buildings to tax paying entities?

In terms of consolidation, if what is being proposed in the county engineering department is any indication, consolidating will cost us more money. According to the HM story on this topic, we will need to hire one additional person in order to consolidate this department. Now there may be a good reason for this, but in private businesses, consolidations are designed to make operations more efficient at a lower cost.

In terms of the BISFTA, it doesn't matter technically what budget these funds come from, they come from the same wallets - ours. The BOE is funded by the BOCC, and you can impact their budget requests. Just look at the arrogance that they have shown already in this year's budget process. In today's HM, it was reported that at last night's budget meeting, the BOE wants to eliminate fees for students at sporting events as well as increasing spending for middle school extracurricular events. This will increase the budget by about $170,000. The intent of this may be admirable, but their attitude is what is really something else. According to the story, for some reason the BOE did not include these expenses in the draft budget. In terms of how this will be paid for though they say that:

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Officials said Tuesday that some items might be eliminated from the budget if increases are made in athletic funding, or if student ticket sales are eliminated as a revenue source.

"We'll find another area of the budget where we can cut to balance it in terms of this amount of money," Washington County Public Schools Superintendent Elizabeth Morgan said.

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With that attitude, it does not appear that they are holding the line on increases. If they will only look at making these cuts if the other programs are added, it certainly shows that they have a sense of entitlement to these funds regardless if there is an actual need. Why can't they cut expenses without being given a carrot for doing so?

Now in terms of the county taking credit for reducing the cap on tax assessment from 10% to 5%, this is not completely true. The county was given the opportunity to do this for a long time, but they did not do anything until our state delegation forced them to. The BOCC didn't even do a study in the time given by the delegation. By the time this reduction went into effect, the damage had already been done. The values for everyone's homes had artificially increased so far by then, and so we all had to pay much more tax than we should have had the BOCC acted in a timely manner on this. It would be one thing if this money was really needed by the county, but how many families had to pay their increased real estate taxes so that we could buy buildings that we don't need or a school that wasn't needed?

Quite an interesting topic.

Drevin,

I appreciate your input. It would seem that you have a better grasp on subjects than most.

But your opinion on whether a school was needed down town or buildings need to be bought for County services is your opinion. Mine, I believe that the County purchasing these properties, mostly which are vacant or will be torn down to be replaced, is a step in the right direction to help a failing portion of our inner core. Now, apparently you are a County resident, which means and outside the city resident, and the deterioration of the downtown means little to you.

The city of Hagerstown is the County seat and the largest municipality in Wash. Co. The residents are also county residents who pay not only city taxes but county taxes as well. An investment of this magnitude will do wonders for the 100 block of West Franklin and the main thoroughfare that runs through our town.

You mention the recent boon in the housing market and what did we experience in the downtown. We saw some properties exchange hands and we still have some larger property owners who are sitting on theirs. We saw huge money poured into redevelopment of properties and we have many in the pipeline. It is not an over night process. Like I said, this is government and we move as slow as possible. Sometimes I swear we're going backwards we're going so slow.

Again, I appreciate your input. There's an election in 2010, maybe we'll see your name on the ballot.

Drevin,
Have you been inside any of our schools lately??? Take a good hard look. Then let's look around our area and see the growth we've hit. Don't sit back on your easy chair and condemn the new schools being built. My God we need them. Just in case you're not aware go take a good hard look at the size of the New Pangborn school that's going up. AND I MEAN LOOK AT IT WITH YOUR EYES OPEN. Then pan off the right of that new school and take a good hard look at what our children have to be stuffed in for classes that day. Not to mention a totally out dated building that's not all that cost effective for energy. I'm not getting in on this issue with the city buying these new buildings just yet. I just hope that it's all done with the right intent and I believe it will be. But I will fight you good on the issue of our schools and I'll prove the fact's for it. ok. Many of our school buses have been so over loaded and yet new keep moving in. And yet you sit back and slam the board for building new schools. I guess you're one of the Bidget's that Bit**** because we got a raise? Well by God we deserve it. And just for the record Drevin a trash truck driver and workers still get paid more then we do. Don't go there Drevin not a good idea to do. Leave the BOE alone on this issue ok.

Dodge Man, you obviously have not read much of what I have posted about schools. The Pangborn and Maugansville elementary schools were obvioulsy needed. The planning for the Maugansville school was very poor to say the least. If you are employed in the school system as you imply, you might remember that the new Maugansville school was supposed to take the place of the old Maugansville school and Conococheague elementary. The senior administration officials at the WCPSS had no idea of the level of growth in the north end of Hagerstown (even though they spent tens of thousands of our tax dollars on studies). They were completely oblivious to the growth in the Paramount area and did nothing to plan for this. Then all of a sudden, that school was at about 150% capacity, and the plans for Maugansville had to be changed. Now the new Maugansville school will be used for the current Maugansville students and the overflow from Paramount. It was delayed for two years because of this lack of direction, and this delay cost the county millions. Oh, and by the way, the whole objective of that project in the first place, a solution for Conococheague, was never achieved. Very poor planning indeed.

Now Pangborn is a different story. It was needed and it got built with one objective in mind.

Rockland Woods, now that is an absolute fiasco. If you remember, that was built to relieve overcrowding at the surrounding elementary schools. Two of the main overcrowding situations in that area are Greenbrier and Boonsboro. But guess what? Again the overall objective for that school being built will not be achieved. Boonsboro and Greenbrier will still be overcrowded next year when Rockland Woods opens half empty. Why? Because there was not adequate planning involved. Basically, it was just built in the wrong place. Even the president of the elected BOE recently expressed her frustration at the whole redistricting process for Rockland Woods. She said that they never agreed with the plan for Rockland Woods. She said they went along with it because the BOCC made a deal with the developers of Westfields because they gave the land there for the school as a condition of building all teh houses taht they planned.

Now the objective for the Barbara Ingram School for the Arts was solely aimed at downtown revitalization despite what anybody has said about this. It is something that was WANTED and not NEEDED (there's a whole other topic on this in the forum if you want to read more). Basically, the school sytem will be paying a lot of money for a school that has no classrooms, cafeteria, gym or library. Now what kind of planning takes place to spend millions on a school facility that lacks many of the basic necessities for a school? Oh and by the way Dodge Man, the money that will be used to pay for this school's lease and operation will come from the same budget that your salary comes from. It won't be coming from the construction funding budget. So now if funds get tight, everything else will be expendable (including you) because the BOE signed a lease for this school that wasn't needed. If you would like to defend the need for this school and can share your vast knowledge of the school system, pehaps you can tell us how many band, orchestra, choral, drama and art presentations will be made this year at the high school level and how many are planned for when the school opens. Perhaps then we can see the real difference that this school makes. From what I have seen, there is plenty of opportunity for students in Washington County to partake in the arts at the existing high schools. Why was this specialized school needed?

So anytime you want to discuss anything related to the school system, bring it on. You tell me why we need to spend $10,000 per student per year now when we only spent $5,000 per student 8 years ago. Has your salary doubled in the last 8 years? Has inflation gone up 100% in the last 8 years? Needing things and wanting things are two differnet issues. When things are needed though, purchasing them or building them efficiently is the way things need to happen. Unfortunately in Washington County, this rarely happens.

To answer at least part of the question in your first paragraph, all but two of the lots are vacant, and one will need to be demolished. The other has been fully renovated for and has a leased tenant who's lease pays more than double the cost to operate the building. This is the building right next to the current County Adm building and can be physically connected and is nearly 3 times the size of 80 west baltimore and the cost per square foot is lower than almost all buildings purchased by the county in recent past. All of this was discussed at our "untelevised" public meeting just not reported in the HM.

To address selling spaces that depts have moved out of, like emergency call center, which was located in the basement of the old district court house and extremely antiquted space...this operation moved to our Elliot Parkway building "consolidated" in a location where we have other depts operating out of and leaving a space that is less than leasable in its previous location, again the details which were discussed as it was accomplished at our public meetings.

In your second parapraph your "facts" are wrong again, as it was clearly conveyed by staff and the bocc in our public meeting that the proposed changes in engineering dept operations will actually result in a net annual savings. If you would like, I could provide the document that more fully explains this and shows the annual savings.

To some degree your thrid paragraph is incorrect, b/c under state law we have limited ability to withhold significant funds from the BOE and are required to provide maintenance of effort annually, os I am not certain what "other" amount you believe we have the ability to deny them. You are correct to some degree however that the bocc could have provided more stringent oversite of the funding used to determine whether or not BISFA is a necessary affordable endeavor in relation to the overall system needs.

To briefly address your question in paragraph four my response above applies, as well as the reality that whether there is a carrot and stick approach there are 49 million in current project defficiencies that must be funded to bring our structural systems (schools) up to date).

I think you should go back and check the real record, including discussions that took place outside of the formal public venue on reducing the assessment cap, b/c the city of which I was a part of never received such pressure from the State to do so, and moved forward with that reduction in assessment increase on the tax rate on our own accord. Further, there is no document that I am aware of from hte delegation to the bocc that demanded assessment reduction from 10% to 5%, and for the record as the City and County have voluntarily done this of each of their own accord, the State delegation has yet to press for the same reductions at the statewide level. I fail to understand your correlation of how reducing the assessment cap has provided no benefit to the property owner b/c assessments increases have already occured, when this move restrictst that increase thus reducing the county tax revenue by millions per year regardless of assessement changes which we, the county have little to no say over how the STATE govt. comes in and makes those assessments.

As my answers above point out I am certainly not shying away from answering your legitimate questions, but my goal in participating in this thread was to discuss plans for this property as it relates to future county services, and I would like to get back to that topic, vs. having to continually correct what your interpretation of the facts appear to be. If you want the info feel free to ask, or least do a little more than simply believe the limited info on these subjects that you are provided to read.

One last note that could not help address is your comparison to consolidation in private industry consolidation resulting in decrease in expenses. Unfortunately, that is often achieved by outsourcing work to other populations and/or reducing the quality and quantity of the service or good being provided, neither of which, when it comes to providing necessary public services, I'm willing to consider to do.

It won't be coming from the construction funding budget. So now if funds get tight, everything else will be expendable (including you) because the BOE signed a lease for this school that wasn't needed. If you would like to defend the need for this school and can share your vast knowledge of the school system, pehaps you can tell us how many band, orchestra, choral, drama and art presentations will be made this year at the high school level and how many are planned for when the school opens. Perhaps then we can see the real difference that this school makes. From what I have seen, there is plenty of opportunity for students in Washington County to partake in the arts at the existing high schools. Why was this specialized school needed?

So anytime you want to discuss anything related to the school system, bring it on. You tell me why we need to spend $10,000 per student per year now when we only spent $5,000 per student 8 years ago. Has your salary doubled in the last 8 years? Has inflation gone up 100% in the last 8 years? Needing things and wanting things are two differnet issues. When things are needed though, purchasing them or building them efficiently is the way things need to happen. Unfortunately in Washington County, this rarely happens.

Drevin.. ????
First of all unless you're willing to drive your child back and forth to school along with all the other parent's in Washington County I highly doubt my job will be ended. Secondly I not once said a word about the waste that goes on with the board, My comment if you can read properly was about the true need for our new schools. As for the current music programs and this so called school of art's in downtown. WTF??? that I agree with you on We have the finest of fine music director's in ALL our school systems. Then to get more personal would be seriously looking into the amount of over paid board members that really have no clue as to what's going on with student's on an actual day to day basis. Now here's the big one ok Brace yourself ok. are you prepared yet????
Yes we have inflated like wild fire in the past 2 year's alone. More so now with the already High and still rising cost of fuel for the bus's alone. It wouldn't shock me to find that we're currently spending more then $13,000.00 per student. Let me ask you this in a way you may understand it better. CAN YOU AFFORD TO DRIVE YOUR CHILD BACK AND FORTH TWICE A DAY AND TRANSPORT HIM OR HER TO THE FIELD TRIP'S. ?????? more than that can everyone else afford to do so????? But then again with your best of knowledge of Maugansville gives away a secret, it tells me you are from the Maugansville school area. Now I truly agree with you that they despartly need a new school. Further if they'd just not moved half of Hagerstown schools I don't feel we'd be in the crisis we're in now. What kills me is that you sit back and judge every move that's made to make a true differance in a childs life. I won't disagree with you that many in the SHOULD BE RETIRED BOE is spending rediculous amount's of money on all these studies when it boils down to common sense.
Further I will continue to defend most and notice I said MOST. of the BOE's choices. Now let's talk salaries with most of them working inside and not in the real life real world situation's, Want a make a change get them to take a pay cut or actually go do something with a child. OMG did I come up with the budget answer???? Sure did. Let me ask you this? and I would like the truth ok. How is it that a mear secratary (A MALE) able to afford a brand new Cadilac DTS? and Further some that work inside driving Beamers, Lexus, Mercedes??????? What do they do for your's and my child????????????? Oh bet I can guess????
Further The Rockland woods mess, Well if the redistricking would have gone through I think you would have saw where the board was going with it. First off The projected growth in the Boonsboro/Sharpsburg area alone is why this was all being done. Then if that had gone through but it didn't, you would have seen where this would have been the right choice in just a mear 2 year's from now. And I bet you're going to see a forced redistricking at moving some student's to the new Rockland Woods. Now onto the new High School that's in the works. Waste at this time. This specialized school for the art's. Another waste of money. Re-Read my above statement. And Again I remind you Drevin I would be one of the last to be, how did you say it? "Expendable" personel, agian re-read above again start from with inside and rid the Expendable personel. Oh and Drevin It's good to see the all new you. You had me fooled for a little bit.

Dodge Man, after reading your post, I WILL be driving my kids to school

Kid,

The 'facts' that I have 'wrong' are from the HM article below. In my previous post I said

"In terms of consolidation, if what is being proposed in the county engineering department is any indication, consolidating will cost us more money. According to the HM story on this topic, we will need to hire one additional person in order to consolidate this department. Now there may be a good reason for this, but in private businesses, consolidations are designed to make operations more efficient at a lower cost. "

The story below says that we will need to hire one additional staff member for this. Specifically it says that

"The engineering changes will require additional staff.
A project manager will be hired to work in Capital Projects. That position will be advertised as a grade 13, which has a salary range of $42,843.15 to $67,005. "

So is this 'fact' incorrect?

********************************************************************************


Washington County reorganization plan would eliminate engineering department
By JOSHUA BOWMAN
joshua.bowman@herald-mail.com
WASHINGTON COUNTY - Washington County's engineering department will be eliminated and replaced with two departments under a plan approved Tuesday by the County Commissioners.
In addition, Hagerstown Regional Airport will be moved to the Division of Public Works and the Recreation Department will be moved from Planning to Buildings, Grounds and Parks.
The changes are part of a reorganization proposed by County Administrator Gregory B. Murray when he was appointed last year.
"All these things are designed to make county government more efficient," Murray said.
The commissioners unanimously approved the changes to the engineering department. They will create one position and three vacant positions will be filled.
The creation of the new departments-Capital Projects and Land Development Review-will formally divide the engineering department in a way it has operated for years, according to Public Works Director Joseph Kroboth III.
The development, design and construction of items in the county's capital improvement program will be handled by Capital Projects.
Land Development Review will review and monitor private development projects.
Both departments would be housed in the Division of Public Works.
Murray said the changes to the engineering department will be immediate.
The changes to the engineering department were spurred by the resignation of the county's chief engineer, Terrence P. McGee. His last day was Feb. 15.
"With (McGee's) departure, we have a chance to make the department more consistent with how it actually operates and also more consistent with the way other counties in Maryland operate," Kroboth said Monday.
Murray said moving the airport to Public Works makes sense because the rest of the county's transportation-related departments are in that division.
"They all tie together, regarding how you get people in and out of the community," said Murray, who noted that the change also will help the county create a master transportation plan.
Similarly, Murray said the Recreation department is more closely aligned with Buildings, Grounds and Parks than with Planning.
He said the airport and recreation department moves will be effective July 1.
The moves will not require any changes to those departments' budgets or staff, Murray said.
The engineering changes will require additional staff.
A project manager will be hired to work in Capital Projects. That position will be advertised as a grade 13, which has a salary range of $42,843.15 to $67,005. Two grade-17 deputy directors will be hired to head the Capital Projects and Land Development Review departments. Those positions will replace the vacant chief engineer and deputy director of public works jobs. Grade 17 has a salary range of $58,287.60 to $91,159.
A vacant, grade-15 transportation planner position also will be filled. That position will move from Planning to Land Development and will be retitled transportation engineer. Grade 15 has a salary range of $49,971.60 to $78,153.

If you're always this angry I'm not sure I'd want you driving my kids. Why not go drive a trash truck -- you sound like it is a better deal?

Snoopy
Let's get your fact's straight here. Who said a thing about me being angry??? YOU did!! Fact is I'm happy with what I'm being paid, and I love my job. Don't judge me about driving your kids you alway's have the option to take them yourself. If you were reading all through this you'd see what I meant by it and Dreving know's exactly what I mean. It was mearly pointing out FACTS over the BOE's spending. If what I say bother's you then skip over my comment's. Drevin has sent me PM's and they know Exactly what I mean and No I'm not posting those because it's between us.

Yes Drevin, your "facts" are wrong because you assumed from the HM article that by adding staff it would mean increased costs, your words, not mine or the Herald's as follows from your post...

"In terms of consolidation, if what is being proposed in the county engineering department is any indication, consolidating will cost us more money"

Again the part about the effect these changes will have were not included in the article and thus the reason for my previous parting comment, that you simply took the limited info provided in the HM article and made your own interpretation of what you believe the "facts" are.

[/quote]

Snoopy
Let's get your fact's straight here. Who said a thing about me being angry??? YOU did!! Fact is I'm happy with what I'm being paid, and I love my job. Don't judge me about driving your kids you alway's have the option to take them yourself. If you were reading all through this you'd see what I meant by it and Dreving know's exactly what I mean. It was mearly pointing out FACTS over the BOE's spending. If what I say bother's you then skip over my comment's. Drevin has sent me PM's and they know Exactly what I mean and No I'm not posting those because it's between us.
[/quote]


Since I have never sent Dodge Man a PM, I'm not sure what he is talking about. He did send me one accusing me of being another poster, so I just blocked him. So his FACTS about the BOE are just as accurate about the FACTS of his PMs.

Obviously Dodge Man hasn't taken the time to read any of my previous posts. The topic here was unnecessary and improperly planned government spending. The downtown buildings were the start of this thread and the general school spending process (for the unnecessay BISFTA) came in as a supporting argument to show a trend. Now, apparently unless the entire subject is related to school buses, he must think there is no merit to the discussion.

So again, Dodge Man, if you want to present any facts on this subject please do. In the mean time, reread the whole thread.

Again the BOE funding of BISFA is under another thread, and I thought this topic was about the BOCC purchasing the property and a call for question, so I joined in to discuss the issue, and feel I have done little but clear up false assumptions perpetuated by limited information. Now it appears to have turned into the World According to Drevin thread of which I do not intend to to wander much further in to.

Kid,

Your input is appreciated. This topic is about the purchase of the downtown properties. The questions about this were along the lines of the need for these and the planning behind the usage.

It just seems to me that when it comes to large $$$ capital expenses, the WC tax dollars are not spent efficiently. The building of the schools was a supporting example. I believe that you have agreed that the BISFTA is a questionable project which we seem to be paying top dollar for yet it is not really needed. Hopefully you read my other comments about the Maugansville school. The planning behind that was just terrible, and to hear people say that is now on or under budget is just unbelievable. Check out the original funding request (CIP) for this school and let us know if the costs will come in below this amount. Also the Rockland Woods project was poorly planned from the start. So now that this school has not relieved the overcrowding in Boonsboro, I guess we will be spending millions more to put an addition on Boonsboro while Rockland Woods sits half empty.

That is the kind of inefficient use of our tax dollars that I'm talking about. These resulted from inadequate planning. With that being the case, was the proper planning done before the county purchased the buildings/property, or will this turn out to be along the lines of the school projects?

To my knowledge and history of the Rockland Woods and Boonsboro situation, Rockland was to provide for capacity from expected development in the immediate area, and only after growth slowed was considered to relieve overcrowding in the Boonsboro area. I think you may be confusing the relief part with Greenbriar which was the original proposal that was turned down. Further, I believe the CIP included additions to the Boonsboro system long before Rockland Woods was considered to relieve overcrowding.

quote name='Kid' date='Mar 13 2008, 03:52 PM' post='102185']
To my knowledge and history of the Rockland Woods and Boonsboro situation, Rockland was to provide for capacity from expected development in the immediate area, and only after growth slowed was considered to relieve overcrowding in the Boonsboro area. I think you may be confusing the relief part with Greenbriar which was the original proposal that was turned down. Further, I believe the CIP included additions to the Boonsboro system long before Rockland Woods was considered to relieve overcrowding.
[/quote]


An addition for Boonsboro was requested some time ago as far as I know and then Rockland Woods was fast tracked. When it got going, it was supposed to help with the overcrowding at Boonsboro. However, the redistricting effort failed in this objective because the parents from Boonsboro and Keedysville didn't want to bus their kids so far (and justifiably so). This was done along the lines of 'build it and they will come' - but in the end, they didn't want to come. Instead of waiting until the school was near completion to address the redistricting effort, it would have been much wiser to address this first. So what did the school system do to address the overcrowding in Boonsboro Elementary? They added a magnet program there. That's right, a magnet program to attract MORE students to an overcrowded school. Adequate planning???

Kid, I don't know the answer to this off hand, but what are the consequences in terms of state funding for building a school that will open with such a low student population relative to the state rated capacity? I had heard the number 85% kicked around before, meaning that if the school didn't have that many students in place when the school opened, state funding was in jeopardy. I'll see what I can find on this, but it all goes back to adequate planning.

With the growing population in Washington County, obviously new facilities (schools, offices, etc) are needed at some point. My point is that adequate planning is important to make the best use of our limited tax dollars. Kid, you probably have a much better take on the situation with the downtown buildings than I do, but after what has gone on with school construction here in the recent past (and near future), it would seem that a much better review/approval process could be implemented when it comes to capital expenditures.

SamyO
Thanks I too needed a laugh on that one as well. We still drive when 1 is lost we gain 10 more... Seems that way anyhow. And Drevin / UN / Snoopy it's ok we could use the room.

I think there are other options. Heck, I know there are other options.

Drevin, The delay in Maugansville was not a result of a "lack of direction" on the part of the BOE, but a screw up on the part of the architect which delayed the construction for more than a year. As for Rockland Woods, the BOE had nothing to do with the location of that school. That was a deal cut between the developer and the BOCC who did not consult the Board on the soundness or appropriateness of the move. The current BOE members should have accepted the redistricting proposal that included Greenbriar and a small part of Boonsboro Elementary (or even increased the number of students coming from Boonsboro Elementary, but they caved in to parents from the Boonsboro area. As for the president of the BOE expressing frustration over the redistricting plan, why did she vote down the first plan? The BOE took the cowards' way out on the second redistricting and did not allow the plan to come to a vote by not seconding the motion. They have no one to blame but themselves for that one. If you really doubt the usefulness of the BISFA, you need to visit the Baltimore School for the Arts upon which the BISFA will be based. It is a marvelous program that admits students based solely on their talent; however, the school is a high academic one also and turns these artistic students into top academic students as well.. It seems that once these kids are given the opportunity to run with their artistic talents, they realize the importance of the academics as well. Check out their web site. Chief

Chief, hate to disagree with you on the Maugansville situation, but it was delayed two years for two different reasons. The first one was that they didn't do a feasibility study in the required timeframe, so they did not get approved for state funding in the first year that they asked for it. This should have been particularly disturbing to our BOE and BOCC at the time because they constantly brought up the situation where delays in construction ended up costing much more. In the year in which planning funds were requested, Maugansville was #3 on the CIP list. That is very high, and it indicates that it was very important. However, when the request for funding was submitted, it was known that a feasibility study would be required before the funding would be approved. They also knew that they had six months to do this since the CIP requests would be finalized in April. Knowing this, the staff at the WCPS did not complete this study in time and thus caused the first year delay. The next year, they requested and got funding for the construction of the school. Its target completion date was Fall 2007. Had the feasibility request been done on time, the completion date would have been Fall 2006.

The second delay was caused by a complete lack of attention to this project. With a Fall 2007 completion date, the WCPSS announced in February 2006 that the project was completely on schedule. Now this was only 19 months before its scheduled opening and they didn't even have a ground breaking ceremony yet - not one shovel full of dirt had been moved. Two months later, they announced that the project was now 12 months behind schedule and it wouldn't open until Fall 2008. As a result of the delays, the school could no longer be built for anywhere near its budgeted amount. Thus the architects were called in to redesign the school to make it smaller. This redesign cost $100,000. So this was not a screw-up by the architect that caused this situation.

The $100,000 was not the only unnecessary additional cost. Since the school was not completed on time, two portable classrooms had to be added to the Paramount ($250,000) and two more had to be added to Maugansville (another $250,000). So right there was a complete waste of $600,000. Now let's not forget that the original price tag for a larger Maugansville school was about $14 million. What is the end cost going to be now? I haven't seen the figures on this lately, but I believe it is much closer to $20 million now for a smaller school.

A side note to this. After all of the damage was done on this in terms of time delays and additional costs, THEN the WCPSS decided to “release” the Chief Operating Officer and the Facilities Director who were directly responsible for this.

As far as Rockland Woods, the point of this was another case of complete lack of planning and a waste of money. Wrong place wrong time.

Now for the BISFTA, can you quantify what the difference will be in terms of the number of performances that will be given by all of the WC high schools for band and orchestra concerts, choral presentations, art exhibits, etc. now compared to when the school for the arts is completed? Is WC now so devoid of any arts in the high schools that a specialized school is needed? Have you gone to any of the high school productions that have been presented lately? They are fantastic. So why do we need a specialized school to offer what is already offered? Why are we paying so much to renovate a building for a high school that will have no classrooms, library, cafeteria? Now in terms of your academic claims for the students at the Baltimore school, isn't this the chicken/egg scenario? Does a school for the arts improve students’ academic qualities, or do students with higher academic qualities choose to pursue the arts?

I disagree with you on these situations, but I respect your perspective.