By Debbi Farr Baker
UNION-TRIBUNE BREAKING NEWS TEAM

and Matthew Rodriguez
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

6:39 p.m. March 17, 2008

OCEANSIDE – A woman and her young son were recovering Monday after being shot by an off-duty San Diego police officer in what authorities said was prompted by a road-rage incident.


Advertisement The officer, Frank White, 28, has been with the San Diego Police Department since October 2005, an Oceanside police spokesman said. White is on routine administrative leave with pay while the incident is investigated.
The shooting occurred about 9:15 p.m. Saturday night in the parking lot of Lowe's home improvement store on Old Grove Road near state Route 76, Oceanside police said.

The woman, who is in her 20s, and her 8-year-old son were flown to Sharp Memorial Hospital and to Rady Children's Hospital.

The incident began, police said, when one of the drivers cut the other one off.

“There was some type of right-of-way violation by one party or the other,” Oceanside police Sgt. Kelan Poorman said Monday. He said one of the drivers then apparently followed the other into the parking lot.

It was not clear Monday why the officer fired at the woman's vehicle. Poorman said White's wife was with him in the vehicle.

Poorman said he didn't know if there had been contact between the cars. He also declined to say what type of weapon White had used or how many shots he had fired. The woman was unarmed.

Oceanside police were told that White identified himself as a San Diego police officer at one point during the confrontation, Poorman said.

Police interviewed White on Saturday night and spoke with the woman's 8-year-old son Monday.

“We're waiting to talk to the mother so we can put the pieces of the puzzle together,” Poorman said. He said investigators were seeking permission from the woman's doctors to speak with her.

Poorman said the officer was interviewed at the Oceanside police station with his attorney, a peer support officer and his supervisor.

The Lowe's store, just south of Route 76, is in a shopping center along with a Ralphs grocery store, a San Diego National Bank branch, a McDonald's, and several other stores.

Investigators are also still talking with witnesses, Poorman said.

Once they have more information they will determine what, if any charges should be filed, Poorman said. No one has been arrested.

No additional information has been released about the shooting. San Diego Police Chief William Lansdowne said his department would look at the investigation once it's completed to determine if the officer violated any policies.



Someone has got some serious anger issues to deal with!

man, i have a feeling this is going to be super bad when all the details come out. it's already looking scandalous. i mean, even if a driver has wronged you and you're uber pissed, you don't shoot people, especially 8 year old passengers.

i'm wondering why no charges have been filed?? where is the question here? are they suggesting the shooting may have been justified?


how are they not sure if policies have been violated?? there must be more to this story...

From what I have read and heard from friends there have been a lot of "questionable" shootings by OFF-DUTY officers in San Diego county in the last several years. Including an off duty cop in Santee that shot a neighbors dog because it was barking.

The El Cajon police website even has a pdf file on the front page of their website about how off duty officers should conduct themselves while off duty and in public. takes a little of the charm out of San Diego.

No matter how pi$$ed you are because someone cut you off shooting a mom and her 8 year old is not the best course of action

“There was some type of right-of-way violation by one party or the other,” Oceanside police Sgt. Kelan Poorman said Monday.

-Good thing the cop had a gun and not a tazer or someone might have been killed.

-Sounds like someone was driving in the wrong lane (left lane) and going too slow. Maybe this thread should be combined with how to drive on the interstate. STAY THE HELL OUT OF THE FAST LANE UNLESS YOU ARE PASSING!!

Because if you dont the cops will shoot you and your child

Yeah but so far we cannot tell who. The reporter couldn't say who followed who into the parking lot, who was attacking who, who may or may not have run into whose car, or what else transpired before the shots were fired. The boy may have just caught a stray bullet while the cop was defending himself against a drug-crazed woman who had already assaulted him with her car for all we can tell.

The story is written with an angle biased against the officer, but if you actually read it, the reporter doesn't really know much of anything at this point, other than who was involved and who caught the bullets when it was all over.

De-nut him.

Yeah, kids are always catching something or picking up strays

"Police have not said who they think was the aggressor in the incident."

Since everyone is making things up in the absence of facts, I have a theory for you. The 8 year old boy is a gangsta type who tried to knife the cop while his coked-up mom was fumbling for a tire iron after following the cop and his wife into the parking lot and ramming the cops's car.

That version fits the facts reported just as well as the one the liberal media is trying to infer: that it was a psycho cop on a rampage shooting up innocent civilians (with his wife in the car?).

Oh, the truth will eventually emerge and probably turn out to be closer to one version or the other, but so far there's precious little in the way of actual facts beuing reported.

I'm not sure what Bent is trying to get at: we're supposed to trust a "military wife" over a Police Officer? I dunno that either one deserves the beneift of the doubt versus the other. It is telling that they haven't yet decided to charge the woman or her gangsta kid.

You can't make this stuff up folks.... oh wait....

Believe me, I am no big fan of police oficers. But the way people were jumping to conclusions, considering the extreme lack of facts, I couldn't help but say something.

Well, at this point it could be that it was. Let this be a lesson in critical thinking / reading.

The reporter is trying to spin this as a crazy cop on a rampage story but hasn't yet got the facts to back up such a sensational headline. At this point if it doesn't turn out that way, the reporter's sure gonna have some 'splainin' to do. So regardless of what the offical investigation determines watch for them to try to maintain that spin.

i wish they'd wait to run stories like these. some facts would be helpful. the fact that they said no arrests have been made is what made me think there has to be more to this one.. they don't just get a report of a shooting and not make an arrest unless there is some sort of question of guilt...

You've got to admit that would be at least as entertaining as yet another "crazed killer cop goes on a rampage" story.

"Police have not said who they think was the aggressor in the incident."

Seems to me that the aggressor was the officer.

And, you know this, how?

I'm surprised this hasn't turned into a cop-bashing thread. For that I'm appreciative.

We may have a crazed cop here, or we may have a cop who was defending himself against deadly force. I wonder if the woman was using the vehicle as a deadly weapon, trying to run the officer down?

There is precious little information on what actually happened here.

But it is indeed a shame that a child was shot. And perhaps the adult, if she was an "innocent" victim.

They may be waiting for the District/State's Attorney to file charges either by way of a criminal information or via the Grand Jury by way of Indictment. It's not all that unusual for the police not to file charges on a person (who is considered a low flight risk) who is confined to a hospital. It's a matter sometimes of cost, if she's arrested she would have to be placed under police guard.

I guess we just have to see how this plays out and more information is released to the public.

It was heading that way and I had to jump up and say "hold on thar"! It's truly sad how quickly people fall victim to biased reporting in the mainstream media.

It will be interesting to see how the facts turn out. Could go either way of course but I find myself hoping it turns out the cop was justified, just to spite the biased reporting this has gotten.

Just wondering why you can speculate, I wonder if the woman was using the vehicle as a deadly weapon, I wonder if the cop was defending himself?

Maybe I wonder why this cop shot a kid, maybe I wonder why this cop didn't use his ole trusty TASER? Maybe I wonder if this is a cop that had a mental breakdown and just got finished beating his wife and using cocaine and decided to shoot a kid. Crazy isn't it; speculation that is.

But see, the difference is... I'm considering both sides of the issue.

Your opinion is clouded by your apparent hatred of authority.

Speaking of opinions being clouded, Yoss, what's with that new sig? Religion = intolerance, ignorance, arrogance. Jeez...

Yeah, my opinions are clouded by my disillusionment with religion.

Sorry to hear that. We ain’t all bad. ‘Course, maybe I’m not that good of an example either way.

Snoopy you bring up a great point. Surely Yoss doesn't believe all Christians are bad, just as I don't think all cops are bad either. However, of course he only sees it his way. But then again I guess that is both sides of view. Just so you know Yoss I don't have an issue with authority, my issue is when it is abused. I have many friends that are in law enforcement and most agree with my point of view. As a matter of fact I have learned from them and agree with their point of view.

Don't get me wrong, Hagopinion, if it's a dirty cop I'll be leading the protest to have his butt fired and put in jail.

In fact I did that. Investigated officers for wrong doing. And in fact put them in jail.

What I'm saying in this particular case, is that there is so little information about the incident that we should not prejudge and automatically put the officer at fault.

If he's wrong, hang his azz. But not until we get more information on the incident.

You say I'm only seeing it my way. Can't I accuse you of the same, based on what you've typed in this thread?

You want to hang the officer.

I say we wait for more information.

He saw that I've come back and decided to try to jerk my chain? Just guessing.

But I'm not taking the bait. His version of anti-Christian hatred just doesn't get me all that 'riled up. Maybe in part because I know he's not really as hate-filled and intolerant is his sig is letting on. Deep down I've got much respect for Yoss in spite of his unfortunate disillusionment with people of faith.

Just wait until you meet one of our newer memebers.

Kinda jerking your chain B; but happy to see you back. And true, it's not meant to be hate filled, just my disillusionment, as you say, with religion.

We don't often agree with each other, on many issues, but I do respect your opinions, and you frequently force me to view things a bit differently than I would have otherwise.

Welcome back.

Still not much in the way of details in this case. The woman has apparently hired a prominent attorney and is refusing to talk to Police about events that led up to whatever altercation occurred in the parking lot. The police spokesman has said that "The officer said he felt as if he was threatened," Investigators are meeting with the DA today and will decide whether to file charges and if so against whom. So we should hear more soon.

My first suspicion is civil but here's the news, from http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/15648941/detail.html :

"OCEANSIDE, Calif. -- A woman who was shot by an off-duty San Diego police officer in an apparent road-rage incident reportedly has hired the same attorney who represented former San Diego Chargers player Steve Foley.

The San Diego Union-Tribune reported the woman has hired attorney John Phillips to represent her.

Foley hired Phillips after the linebacker was shot near his Poway home on 3, 2006, by an by off-duty Coronado police officer."

Well, you know she didn't just pick him out of a phone book. I'm sure the attorneys are knocking down her door.

Video from where? Security cameras?

And you know they have video/security cameras how?

At least one of the news stories said so. Reportedly the investigators have reviewed the footage from the parking lot security cameras but apparently at last word are still trying to get an official copy. Of course those cameras cannot show anything that happened before the two vehicles got to the parking lot.

...and you know this how?

Their web site http://www.jphillipslaw.com/practice.html lists all sorts of areas in which they practice, but I don't see "criminal" anywhere on that list. Wondering if this doesn't have racial undertones that nobody is mentioning, and the lawyer is looking at it from that perspective and a civil rights angle. The reporting is sketchy.... can't really tell.

Interesting take, B, I never considered that.

Silly me. When they said he was a prominent attorney I figured the top result when I searched on his name would be him. BTW I included "California" in that search term, and Yahoo gives me a firm in Washington? Sheash I can't win for losing!

The article I linked to just says "John Phillips". Which could just as well be John L. Phillips, the San Diego personal injury specialist and former Deputy D.A.?

Your link was dead when I clicked on it (probably a security issue) - how about a link to the article you looked at? I can't even find a web site for John G.'s firm... doesn't seem so prominent to me. You must be right, but the guy doesn't even have a web site.

This is kind of weird. Woman has left the hospital, and the news right now at http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/15666502/detail.html is:

"San Diego police Officer Frank White is accused of firing on a woman and her son in a possible road rage incident. He was put on paid administrative leave after the shooting,

San Diego Police Chief William Lansdowne said he was impressed with the thoroughness of their investigation.

"They gave us a preliminary briefing -- very thorough and very complete -- and probably have about two more weeks to go before they're able to present that as a case to the district attorney for review," Lansdowne said."

So he was "accused" of "firing on" them. Gee, I would think that was already proven. Nothing about him being CHARGED with any crimes. Was his firing on them a crime or was it justified somehow? That they aren't saying, or else they're not saying it in plain english. Either this is really sloppy reporting or the police still can't figure out whether to file charges or what they should be.

They let crack ho and gangsta boy (or the innocent woman and her son, depending on the facts that we haven't been given yet) go free, so I guess they're not going to be charged. But this just sounds weird. Sounds to me like they're planning on taking another 2 weeks to figure out what to do. Maybe with the woman refusing to talk they can't sort it all out? This just sounds odd.

John Kerry is a "veteran" and I've got worse names for him than those.

I'm running a special on sense of humor. $9.99 this weekend only. But I only take cash.

Just put it on my tab B, it's worth the cost at any price.

I'm likely off base, but here's my predication of how this went down.

- OD cop and woman get into argument over traffic dispute.
- Cop gets chesty and tries to take action on the minor traffic infraction.
- Woman disregards the cop, who makes the all-too-familiar stupid cop mistake of stepping in front of a moving vehicle to prevent the woman from leaving.
- Woman stupidly continues to drive toward the cop
- Cop feels threatened by the car and fires into it.

That's my take on it too. But you said it way better than I could.

Does an off-duty police officer from one jurisdiction have the ability to take action over a traffic infraction of another jurisdiction?

Officer White is a San Diego police officer but the incident happened in Oceanside, CA which is north of San Diego and has its own police force.

Sometimes, millennium. It depends on whether or not state law enables it.

It's certainly possible. I seem to remember Cali being one of those states where a certified cop, from any jurisdiction, has authority throughout the state. Let me do some googlin'.


edit - I couldn't come up with the right search terms to find what I was looking for in my short search.

Are you actually so incapable of rational thought or is your hatred of me already so clouding your judgement that you cannot help making a fool of yourself?

"Crack ho and gangsta boy" are one possible (deliberately humorous) description. "Innocent woman and her son" are another. As I clearly stated, we do not know for sure which description is closer to the truth. We haven't been given enough facts to know whether this woman was a totally innocent victim of an out of control off-duty police officer or alternatively, the totally justified action of an officer who was being pursued and assualted by a (perhaps even drug-crazed) woman and/or her kid. I am using a device that is obviously a foreign concept to you - exaggerration - to make my point.

You seem to be saying that the woman MUST be totally innocent solely because her husband is a Marine. I say that's absolute B.S. Military members are as capable as the rest of us of marrying people who will one day commit a crime, and of siring kids who may at some point do something less than admirable.

Your seeming obsessive, rabid hatred for Christians has caused you to make an A** of yourself. Might want to pull back a bit. Maybe try limiting your attacks on Christians in general to threads where religion is at least some part of the topic.

Well, at least for once you are thinking, though once again it's rather twisted... I'm close to giving up trying with you. Seems as though you're missing certain basic capacities and your attitude makes me think you're just not worth the trouble.

I am actually quite educated. Not sure what your problem is, but I'm beginning to think goes beyond simply being blinded by hatred.

So they're saying it will be another 2 weeks before they have a case to present to the D.A., and I am guessing no charges will be filed until then. Sounds like an intentional delay to allow the media attention to die down. But it's still not clear who is suppposed to benefit. Are they protecting the Police Department from further embarrassment or afraid to charge the woman because the public has been manipulated into thinking she is innocent? Impossible to tell for sure. In any event, one is left wondering if anyone will even be paying attention, when they finally get around to filing charges.

UPDATE!!!!!


Victim files claim against city





Woman wounded by officers defends herself
By Matthew Rodriguez
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

March 27, 2008



EARNIE GRAFTON / Union-Tribune
Rachel Silva said she drove on a suspended license March 15 because she needed to pick up her 8-year-old son.
SAN DIEGO – An Oceanside woman with two previous DUI convictions said yesterday that she wasn't drunk or high when an off-duty San Diego police officer shot her and her 8-year-old son March 15.
Speaking with reporters alongside her attorney at his San Diego office, Rachel Silva, 27, also talked about why she was driving on a suspended license.

“My son needed to be picked up, and I'm the only one,” she said.

Silva is divorced from the boy's father, a Marine who was in Iraq at the time of the shooting.

Officer Frank White shot Silva twice in the right arm after what Oceanside police say may have been a road rage incident. She was unarmed. The shooting occurred in the parking lot of a Lowe's store on Old Grove Road near state Route 76 in Oceanside. Her son was hit once in the leg.

Online: To read Rachel Silva's claim against the city of San Diego, go to uniontrib.com/more/silva

Silva's attorney, Gene Iredale, filed a claim against the city of San Diego yesterday seeking compensation for physical, psychological and economic damages, including hospital and medical costs. No dollar amount is specified.

White is “manifestly unsuited” to be a police officer, the claim alleges. “His temperament and aggressive nature make him a clear and continuing danger to citizens.”

Before suing a city, a claim has to be made.

Oceanside police have said that White, who was with his wife at the time, fired five shots at Silva's car.

Silva said that, to her, five shots is attempted murder. “Anyone else would be in jail right now,” she said. “And he's just walking around.”

Oceanside police are still investigating the case. White, 28, has been interviewed by investigators but has made no public statements about the incident.

Silva hasn't given a statement to police. Lt. Fred Armijo declined yesterday to corroborate her account or to talk about the results of a toxicology test she was given.

Wearing a sling on her right arm, Silva teared up several times while talking yesterday at her lawyer's office about what happened March 15.



Advertisement Before the shooting, she had picked up her son from a friend's house in Oceanside, she said. They went into the parking lot of the shopping center, which is near her apartment, and she asked her son whether he wanted food at any of the restaurants there, such as McDonald's or Subway.
She said she doesn't recall how the confrontation with White started, or if there was an argument. “We were both stopped,” she said. “I don't know how or what happened.”

Silva also said she is baffled about why White fired into her car. “I don't understand that,” she said. “Five rounds, I mean, that's deadly force.”

She said she started backing up her car, but she couldn't recall whether that was before or after White began shooting. Iredale has said her car backed into a curb.

“I just wanted to get away from the gun,” Silva said. Her son told her, “Mommy, he has a gun,” she said.

Silva said White told her to shut off the engine of her Honda. She said she grabbed her phone and called 911.

At some point, Silva said, White identified himself as a police officer. She said she believes it was after she was shot.

Silva has been staying with her mother in Escondido since the shooting.

She said her son, a third-grader, is “doing well.” He is staying with his father, Luis Silva, who has returned to San Diego County.

An Oceanside police spokesman has said Silva was given a toxicology test and White wasn't. The spokesman generally said the toxicology tests are given only if someone displays symptoms of intoxication.

San Diego police homicide Lt. Kevin Rooney said officers involved in shootings, whether on-duty or off-duty, are not automatically tested for drugs or alcohol. Such testing is done only if a reason exists to suspect the officer might be under the influence, such as alcohol on the breath, slurred speech or bloodshot eyes.

Staff writer J. Harry Jones contributed to this report


What I get out of this is that she was BACKING away from the guy! Either way for this guy to shoot 5 TIMES seems excessive and he must have some sort of anger issue to do all of this while his wife was in the car with him. Wouldn't you just chalk it up to "crazy woman driver" if she cut you off and go about your business? Why feel the need to confront her and start firing?

Okay so she's the town drunk - not quite a crack ho, but close. At least her son doesn't sound like a gangsta boy. Sounds like she's covering up if she has no clue at all why the officer was issuing orders and drew his gun. She doesn't even claim to recall that she was trying to run him down in reverse. Which is my best guess as to what caused him to fire his weapon in the first place.

However, since they haven't charged her with anything, perhaps there might be something to her civil lawsuit - hmm did I get that one right too?

Still, sounds to me like her statement just makes everything as clear as mud. I'm still waiting for the results of the investigation.