In order to see if Hagestown is on the right track in its efforts to revitalize the downtown, I thought a basic question would be in order to gauge the overall attitudes towards the downtown area. So from a standpoint of someone with a young family, why should I choose to go downtown on a regular basis? What is there to make me want to come down and go to multiple places on a single trip? I may come down now for a trip to the library (that can be scary at times for the kids) or a very rare trip to the Maryland Theatre, but what else is there for a family to do downtown? What would make me want to take the family down there and park the car for a couple of hours? The MD Science Center exhibit doesn't really mean that much to us because the kids have already seen the first run of these items in Baltimore as part of class trips. That's a one-time thing anyway, so what would be there to attract us on a regular basis?

When downtown Hagerstown can attract young families and make them feel safe, then that will be a step in the right direction. So please feel free to offer suggestions or impressions of downtown experiences for young families.

Drevin, great thread idea. I'll be responding after I get my thoughts in order.

Interesting question.

I thought of some things but most are event driven: They are: Mummer's Parade(I don't know how many businesses are open then), parts of Blues Fest, Discovery Station and some performances at The Maryland Theater.

Hmm, when I think about the cities I've lived in, visited and worked with, I can't really think of any that were trying to target young families and I'm not sure that you could base the success or failure of downtown by looking at whether a young family would go there. Many urban areas that I'm familiar with had moderate retail traffic during the day, but everything would come alive at night, and you're obviously not going to take your kids to a martini lounge or a comedy club.

I'm just not sure that making something family-friendly can gauge the success or failure of it. When I think about the Historic Spanish district in South Beach, it is not family-friendly... but its one of the most happening hotspots I've ever been in with nice restaurants, lounges, clubs and upscale retail shopping.

Austin TX is another success story; they didn't measure it's success by whether or not young families would go downtown. That wasn't their targeted demographic.

Just some things to keep in mind.

Is City Park considered downtown? It's an excellent venue that can be (and sometimes is) used for all sorts of family-friendly events. Been there a number of times with my kids, and they're getting a bit too old for picnics in the park.

I'm not sure if it's considered 'downtown' or not, but it is a great venue for all sorts of events. The Fairgrounds too.

Since you mentioned it, I was speaking about the square and surrounding blocks. I should've been more clear on that.

Business districts are generally not family-oriented by nature. About the only ones I can think of that are, are the big enclosed center city shopping malls like they have in downtown Philly, or places like Baltimore's Inner Harbor. You'd need to enclose a significant amount of space or somehow provide lots of space with little worry about autmobile traffic, and then bring in lots of family oriented shopping and entertainment vendors.

...and either plenty of parking or clean, cheap timely public transportation connected to remote parking.

Isn't the targeted demographic 21-35 year old white middle/upper class people looking to spend money on overpriced alcohol and food? That's all I see recently coming out of Duffy's and Ava's. The theater can't seem to make up it's mind which direction it wants to go in terms of target audience.

Anyways...

As for what to see or do down here...ummm...well...right now? Not a whole lot. There is this dude in an electric wheelchair who just loves watching the brick guys working on the sidewalk...but even that will soon be coming to an end.

What do you mean by young families? Meaning what ages are we talking about and your does your definition of family mean kids?

I've seen that guy, and honestly, the thought crossed my mind, "I wonder if that's Strungout?"


::runs::


I agree with the basic opinion that the amenities in urban downtowns are geared more toward adults than children, as a whole. However, I might also suggest a family visit during warm months to University Park, Thursdays at lunch, which is when they had live music every week last spring & summer. The music genres varied week to week, and I believe the artists played from about noon to one. It was nice to see so many people out on the benches with their brown lunch bags! A wonderful way to take a mental health break on a sunny day.

I'm assuming of course that this concert series will be continuing this year. Am not positive if it is.

Drevin
Very smart Idea to have started this post. Paperpusher took my idea already, LOL, and that one was The discovery center, I've taken student's there on field trips, It is cool. We use to have a train thing set up in the old CVS building on the square now that's gone. And besides Rockies for lunch,Stop at Bones and Cones say Hello to Chip and then see what's happening at the Md. Theater that's it. as far as a family thing is concerned. But be careful you don't want to let the kids wonder down past the square too far they'll end up in the smut hog shop. (Swear they should burn the place down) You all know what I'm referring too.
And depending on the age's of the your children you could also take a visit to the university. I personally feel they should give a tour to family's with children that Mom and Dad have been having some minor problems with and show them the court house, Lock up station's. Ect........ Maybe if possible meet a judge or 2.

It's coming down late in 2008 or sometime in 2009, as I understand it.

Lease runs through Dec. 08. I'll be there in Jan with a sledge hammer.

Add to my other list: Discourages Free Enterprise. I think the store is disgusting but it has a right to be there.

Flipper will probably be there, throwing himself in front of the bulldozer.

I want pictures!

Again with the "scary" factor! How in the world can a trip to the library be scary for a child??

I believe he is probably referring to some of the vagrants that use the Library as a "shelter".

Speak of the devil....they were lined up this morning as I was heading to work.

I had never actually thought about why anyone was ever lined up to get into the library until you posted that. Makes sense now. The thought just never crossed my mind as to why there was a line to get into the place in the morning.

Hopefully the renovation of the library will happen soon, it needs to. Even if I were a parent, I would rather take my kid to Border's. It's a heck of a lot nicer, has the cafe, and wifi. Although, libraries in general (not just ours) just seem a dated concept to me.

The Fairgrounds and City Park are very good attractions. I have stated in another thread before that I believe that the Fairgrounds is actually one of, if not the, real standout attractions of Hagerstown. Both of these places are what I would call 'destinations' - places that I would plan on taking the family (including a couple of young kids and even grandparents) to. The Fairgrounds is really a destination for many people this time of year. The youth soccer that starts there this weekend will bring probably well over 500 families there on Saturday, and the softball tournaments that take place there will also bring in lots of people. City Park will be the same once the warm weather hits.

The real question is what can downtown Hagerstown do to expand the reach for the people coming to places like the Fairgrounds and City Park? In each of these two cases, there really aren't any buisnesses nearby that we would go to (with the exception of some fast food places along the Dual Highway). So once we go to our 'destination', there is no place else to go. For us that's probably OK, but if downtown every really wants to embark on serious revitalization, they need to build from the 'outside in' instead of the 'inside out'. Once you get people close to town, have something to get them to come in. That kind of goes back to my original question of this post. What can young families do in Hagestown on a regular basis? If there are no activities or destinations downtown, that does not bode well for overall revitalization. If the target population for the downtown is 21-35 singles as someone suggested, then you will get a very one dimensional town that will look more like a fraternity row, and families will do their best to avoid downtown completely.

What is the overall plan for downtown revitalization? What is the target population? If they had more there for families to do, especially in the winter time, that would be great. Hopefully the Mayor and Kid will enter their thoughts on this too.

Actually Patton, per zoning law it no longer has the right to be there.

I agree that revitalizing downtown is not about brinign young families in as much as it has been about sustaining improving the center of local cultural interaction on a social, economic, and governmental level. As our community has expanded os have the locations in meeting this need.

Some things off the top of my head that have not been mentioned are

Washington County Playhouse
Ballet School
and one of my personal favorites that is easily accessed via the Post Office walkway, the Farmers Market.

The reality however, is that our downtown heavily serves local, county, and state government operations, professional business sectors, the legal system, public safety agencies, and social service entities all of which operate primarily during the day, thus creating an atmosphere of activity when few have the opportunity to be downtown participating in it.

I think this post would better served if we discussed some creative ideaas for increased commericalization of the area.

For insanity sake I will throw out a few

An annual carnival utilizing lots arounf the downtown and in conjunction with our city fire depts to replace those city carnivals we have lost over the years at places like Longmeadow. It could last a long weekend for those concerned about parking.

Or how about smaller idea xuch as some shops similar to the ones they used to have at the top of the mall, and have a biulding or block called that with some shops like Penny Annie's that sells penny candy, or a new old magic shop.

On the side of residential improvements I have pitched and am still waiting for local govt to start a fund that would be created that owuld be zero interest or loan to grant that would allow building owners to install elevators that could be used by connecting buildings for increased upper floor occupancy.

Or on the side of details, I once compiled a list of all of the types of singage we have posted on all of our downtown streets that regulate parking during certain times of day, types of vehicles, days of week, etc...to determine if we could some how hcolor code them for ease of parallel parking so when people did come donwtown to look for a spot, you would know what spots were designated for variosu uses (I used to hate the sea of signs on Frederick City streets).

Or from the historical persective, we used to have some large manufacturing companies in downtown asscoaited with making automobiles, airplanes, chemistry sets, iron works and other things that have no only moved out of the city, but in some isntances the country. However, we still call many of the buildings by these originla names of the entrepenuers that built them without growing disconnection on why. I thought it would be cool if atop some of these buildings or on their face possibly murals or even large replicas atop the toof of what was made in these structures.

o.k. back to reality

As I said, discourages free enterprise, by passing restrictive zoning laws.

I don't think that 21-35 is/was the target demographic. Part of the reason that this crowd went to Flo and now goes to AVA is because Eclipse and Stingers closed up right after they opened and that's where this crowd was going; people always flock to the next "hotspot". People seem to forget this (or never even consider it) whenever this discussion comes up.

I'll second the not feeling safe to bring kids downtown idea. I also agree that with the heavy street traffic you have to be careful with children. The downtown community I went to in Colorado closed the streets to traffic, had street performers (clowns, balloon animals, music, etc.), and other attractions to target children such as some toy stores and children's clothing stores. I don't see downtown as being a children place. Kick all the people out that live there, build some kiddy shops and close the streets off. Good luck with that

I love the library! Except when they get the first and third books in a series or the second and third but not the first, etc...

You could always take the kiddies to the downtown circus. For those of you not sure what that is, it is the City Council meeting on Tuesday night. Guaranteed you will get your fill of clowns.

What about taking your children to the Potomac Bead Company to make a bracelet or a cool pair of earrings? That would probably be a fun afternoon.

That's what happens when you turn the "morality police" loose.

RE: the past four years of publicity (Downtown Lve, New Years Eve, Pub Crawl, etc)

I always thought from information dating back to 2005, that the target audience was young people with a lot of cash.
Later, I read the Demcore Website, other business websites, articles in other papers that implied it too. I also listened to council meetings discussing downtown events, and spent time working and volunteering downtown, and got the same impression from people I encountered. It was apparent the goal was to target young adults with cash.

Many publications and media blurbs were putting it out there, move to our downtown. They wanted young people to live, work and recreate. IE, spend money downtown.

The target audience for downtown was the 21-30 year olds with disposable incomes, seeking entertainment. And if some worked and lived downtown that would be even better. I understood the goal was to entice this target audience to things they would want to spend money on in our downtown.
I am not complaining or applauding just observing. Seemed obvious from what has been in this forum, the newspaper, many websites, and magazines re: coming attractions. Various community people have repeated that the future of downtown is getting young adults with money to go downtown.

.......21-30 yr olds come on down and have a good time.............Again, not complaining just reviewing news releases from previous events. There was a forum of young business owners on channel six. Heck, guess it will be the next destination. Hopefully, a happening place.

Thank God give me some heads up and I'll join in with you. Mayor Bob you bring a Ford and I'll bring my Dodge and some chain's, Hell we'll have a feild day. I'd love nothing more then to see filth like that out of town. What a disgrace. Further more why has D.M. Bowman allowed this lease to continue.?

Patton and UD,
I'm not talking about telling someone who can go into what business. I personally feel that selling sex toy's and XXX videos in our downtown area is not what I feel we should be promoteing. Not to mention what some of my police freinds have told me what goes on in there. YUK at best. Not to mention a health hazard. I for one have been on the back burner and have signed a petition a while back to get them out of the area. I Sure don't feel a child needs to see any type of this type of filth. If and odviously they do have a business for it, why can't they move outside of town more private and away from where a child don't have to see it? That's what I'm getting at. I for one am counting the day's to we can get the smut shop out of town.

Kid
A few year's back my wife and I went to the inner harbor for a dinner cruise. Wonderful time. I know we can't do that here. But when we was done with the cruise the harbor On Light Street had a Carnival/ Fair type thing going on. That was going on for a week in the parking areas so as to not disturb the traffic. During the daytime of course children were there and into early evening. Our cruise left we were gone for 4 hours came back and then we saw much more of an adult crowd. Yes some drinks being served, but all in all I saw a major amount of money being spent. I think you, Kid, may be onto something with having a carnival type atmosphere here in our lot's downtown instead of Bester, ect.... It would be a bad idea to shut down the street's. My God it's bad enough now trying to get through.

I didn't even know about the bead shop downtown, Where is that???? Man must have been watching traffic I missed it. What about opening one of the buildings into something like a Fun World for kids to go run their little butt's off. ton's of games, activity things, and maybe even a built in race track (Romote controled) Lazer tag, You know the management at the former play land run that place down into the ground and they didn't control it well at all. In order to have a business like this you can't allow Teenagers to run it, my star's that's asking for trouble, case at point they're closed up. The last we took our Grandson's there we left due to Teens running them over and who was thier to tell? Another Teenager. I think it would be a great thing to have only better controled.

Lately the Md. Theatre has had a lot for kids, I know we've halled them. Why couldn't they do a tad bit more but only in the evening's Like Thursday or Friday night's for Family's to enjoy, Recently Paramount had a movie night there, Great idea. I think the one thing that many are forgetting and that may be scared to come downtown is because you can't let your kids run free. Well truth is you can't at the mall either, look over the past few month's at what happened out there. Look folks Crime is Crime and it can happen in your own home, you shouldn't live in fear because that's what they want you to do. If you take a stand towards them they'll leave!!!!!! We Know this first hand.........
Dodge.

Yoss
That's just nasty. Yuk. OMG... Now I have to drink quick get me a pepsi someone.

Other than possibly ONE day with kids downtown, I cannot think of really any reason to have downtown as a regular outing with the kids. The science museum, library, train shop (Isn't that still out by Burhans?) and the park. I can't even really think of any places to eat downtown that would be really "kid-friendly". I agree, downtown is geered more towards the crowd 21ish - 35/40... Even that (sorry) I think is a lame attempt. If choosing, I would much rather (and do) spend the day places throughout the county - varies places along Antietam Creek for fishing, tubing, canoeing... A walk or bike ride over the Battlefield, various smaller parks around the county, skating at Starland (I prefer to Turners) which hasn't changed since I was a kid! I love living in Washington County, and can't ever see myself moving (unless we turn into Montgomery County!) but if I am being honest, I am glad I don't live in downtown Hagerstown or the surrounding area.