Starting this thread for Kid.

The only thing I don't get is why they need to do an economic impact study. It's not like there's not an easy detour around the bridge and it is a very minor inconvenience.

Here's the story.

Yea, lets do an impact study!!!!!!!!! Oh my, I'm getting toooooo old for this nonsense.

I thought the closing & repair of that bridge was imminent--now its going to be studied?! Why? To prove it needs repair? How bloody typical..

Another study is not needed. It is a clear cut case of it has to go. To much heavy traffic going over it now days.
The only thing to do is replace the whole thing. But the historical sociaty placed it on there list of protected sites.

To locate the proper location for a new bridge you would have to start all the way back to the intersection by the fire hall.
The existing road is in a flood plain. When the creek rises over it`s banks the raodway goes under water causing the closing of the existing bridge. With a higher and bigger openings under the bridge the water can flow away faster. with less property damage. There you have your study already compleated.

Send Annapolis a bill!

It is obvious Shank and other Delegates have not contacted County staff or elected body on this issue b ythe mere statements made in this article. For instance, if Shank's true intention is to protect the economic vitality of the the businesses being affected by this closure he would not be promoting the Southern Blvd (Funkstown Bypass) being moved ahead in schedule as this would permanently reduce the flow of vehicles passing some of the businesses.

The reality is, our professional engineering staff, who were never contacted by the delegates to review the report already completed a bridge analysis as part of their annual review process and programmed this bridge closure and repair for some time now in advance of knowing when to plugh limited federal funds into our maintenance schedule. DelaY will reulst in the following 6 impacts as has been clearly outlined in the public meetings we have had on this subject both at the BOCC meetings and in Funkstown one evening.

1. Delay will jeopardize federal funding and cause a loss of more than a million federal dollars that were provided for this project and to be used under a specific timeframe

2. Delay in repairs will increase the potential for major structural failures in the bridge foundation, which will result in an immediate clisure of the bridge for much longer and at a much greater cost that the million planned to fix it, and hte 5 months it is expected to be closed

3. A temporary bridge will cost more than 1 million just for the structure alone. This does NOT include additional unknown costs to buy right of way on both side of the creek, earthwork to move to put the temporary bridge in place, coordinating and relocating public untility line in the area, changing the road bed to divert traffic onto the temp bridge and then back into the current road, constructing foundations to place the temp bridge on, or restoring the disturbed properties or creek banks back to their original condition...if any or all of these things can even be done in the first place.

4. Add to the above issue how then adequate staging areas will be provided for the contractor that is doing the work, for those familiar with how tight this area is at the bridge.

5. The commissioners already voted to add 60,000 in addtional funds to the project as an incentive to condense the project schedule by the contractor.

6. Possibly most important, with hundred of millions in public projects in our capital budget for the next six year alone, imagine the precedent this sets for EVERY public project where such claims could be made, adding millions of costs to every future public project, and delay.

I leave Opal Court on Eastern Blvd every day, and would like ot be able to go left every day to get home. However, I accept that I must go right and up around Jefferson St on some days due to construction for widening of Eastern Blvd. The City had this project under design and projected at 2.5 million several years ago. However, due to right of way and utility issues delaying the project it is now 3 years later, and the cost has doubled. The County has worked diligently to get Maugans Ave completed at the intersection but was delayed on at least one occassion by the utility company, and when I first took office was delayed by difficulty in right of way aquisition. That project eventually juimped by 30-40 percent. These are just a couple of examples of the reality that will occur in changing the scope of this project.

Some folks have pointed to the public safety issue and not getting fire service or delay in ambulance to robinwood. However, there are 2 other fully manned fire companies from the oak ridge side that will still have speedy access to this area and CRS already uses oak ridge to access this area to and from the hospital, resulting in little if any change to this matter. ALos, we have not heard from the larger comapnies such as Fed Ex and others in the area at any point in this process.

Well said Mcgee

It should never been approved without a plan for a second bridge to begin with. You morons should have been sued to put a stop to this before you got anywhere near this far, but I am guessing you kept it under wraps until it was too late to stop it without all of those issues. Way to go, ramming this dismally bad plan down the taxpayers' throats!

That's okay. We'll vote all of you clowns out of office at the next opportunity - or we would, if we could find anyone else willing to take your places. hehe.

Or at least that would be the opinion of those who have asked others to step in and put a stop to this. I rarely drive through there anywhere so I could care less. D'oh!

P.S. - Okay that was a bit harsh of me. I just didn't like the one-sided nature of the arguments in this thread. Obviously some people feel that the current plan is unacceptable and they have a strong enough argument that they convinced the right representatives to put a halt to it. I do like McGee's argument.

Here's your impact study and it won't cost us a dime.

While bridge is being repaired no one will be able to go West over the bridge leaving Funkstown and no one will be able to head East over the bridge into Funkstown. All traffic will either head North leaving Funkstown onto Frederick Street or South towards Boonsboro, or another option is North onto Edgewood Dr towards the Dual Hwy. (Of course that's gonna be torn up at the same time so who's gonna want to go that way!)

The stores on Oak Ridge Dr will be impacted unless local traffic wishes to go around on to Wilson Blvd and go down the Sharpsburg Pike and onto Oak Ridge that way. (It definitely will impact the stores there).

Since Funkstown officials wanted traffic to stop cutting through their town with the two side by side one way streets this should make somebody happy, as now no one will be cutting through Funkstown to go to the outlets or the mall or East Oak Ridge Dr. Maybe it will become a ghost town!

All kidding aside, and I'm not trying to be nasty, but facts are facts folks. That's just the way it is.

This seriously is the one of the saddest things that I have ever read. What the hell is wrong with people. First of all how much damn business does the Christmas shop do anyway. But seriously though since the bridge was closed before and I am assuming these folks have some sort of record keeping, could we not charge them taxes for the next year or so. Why in the world should the citizens of the county pick up the cost of building two bridges because a couple of stores will lose a few dollars? I just don't get it. What is stopping every shop from making this same complaint when roads are being repaved, sidewalks being redone, and/or lights being installed. Commish Barr should be ashamed of himself for siding with his business friends.

On a seperate note, how F'in lazy have we become? I travel that bridge twice a day, five days a week. When it is out of commision I will be inconvienced. However, to get to South Pointe it will be less than 3 miles to go around, I measured it yesterday. If a business has things that I truely want, I think that I will drive the extra 3 miles.

One more thing, if the county has this much money to waste why the hell are we so up in arms about the money being cut from the University downtown. Hell just take it from the budget. If this complaint is followed it is possible that the Funkstown Bridge will end up costing more than the entire budget for the University.

My opinion just build a new bridge and make the old like the one out by the speedway. By the time you get done building a temporary bridge and repairing the old one, then tearing down the temporary one you would be better off building a new one.

Now everyone here seems to think we are talking about one or two shops being affected. Actually you look much of the South Point area will be affected so we should look at it. While a business you really want to go to can still be accessed by a detour some businesses will take a hit.

If you have 30 minutes for lunch a detour (even three miles considering lights and traffic) will cause people to go somewhere else. I think you will see Mr. D's, Fratelli's and the Ice Cream place take the biggest hits. Something should be put in place to help the businesses on both sides of the bridge offset that. Maybe a tax break by the county for the length of time the bridge is closed.

Finally, I think you all might be missing one other point about why they are afraid of the bridge closing. The county closed the Broadfording Rd bridge for a “few months” and that turned into what two years? Certainly it was closed a lot longer than they had said it would be. I think people would be more likely to accept the closing if the county could guarantee that the same situation wouldn’t happen again.

Kid (and three other commissioners) have hit the nail on the head. I recall at least two other times over the past 20 years or so when this bridge was closed for an extended time, and everyone survived and there was no outcry from a few individuals. Yes, it will be inconvenient to have to use one of the several alternate routes to get from Funkstown to E. Oak Ridge Drive. I may not enjoy driving 2 or 3 miles around to miss the bridge, but I'll do it and I'll get by just fine. I'm sure the commissioners and county staff would prefer the bridge not need "rehabed" and that residents and businesses not be inconvenienced, but this project is a necessity, not a nicety. It would be different if there were an easy and reasonably priced way to keep traffic passing across the creek, but the long delay and excessive cost (to all county taxpayers) to put this off and possibly erect a temporary bridge should not even be considered.

I'll end by saying that I was on the fence about charter home rule . . . but not any more. There is no better example of the need for home rule than this situation. With no apparent research or even the courtesy of speaking with county staff or the commissioners, the state delegation "comes to the rescue" and tacks on an amendment that could cost all Washington County taxpayers a few million dollars in order to placate a few constituents. That is not what state delegates and senators are elected to do, and I eagerly anticipate the next chance to vote for county charter home rule.

I'll end by saying that I was on the fence about charter home rule . . . but not any more. There is no better example of the need for home rule than this situation. With no apparent research or even the courtesy of speaking with county staff or the commissioners, the state delegation "comes to the rescue" and tacks on an amendment that could cost all Washington County taxpayers a few million dollars in order to placate a few constituents. That is not what state delegates and senators are elected to do, and I eagerly anticipate the next chance to vote for county charter home rule.

I was thinking the same thing. If Charter comes back around I am all for it. It is about time, delegates that want votes and to stay in Annapolis stay the hell out of our business. None of these folks will ever get my vote again.

Homegrown

Your point and the Commissioners is invalid. Because when that bridge was closed before you didn't have all of the businesses that are there now. You and they are comparing apples to oranges. It is like saying I will have the same effect sweeping my sidewalk only today it is snowing and yesterday it wasn't.

You can't compare economic impact to the past when in the past 95% of the businesses were not there.

Tony

Just another case of 'you will never be able to please everybody". Is the bridge so bad that it has to be closed for months to be made right? How about the lil sister bridge out on Roxbury road just past the prisons. That little gem was closed for quite awhile and they did a neat job on it for how many people to use?? Guess if a big old tree would have just broke loose upstream and took out the Funkstown bridge there would not be all the cryin. I just dont see that much traffic coming from the "Fredrick" side of the bridge toward the "Halfway" side to do business. Go around for cripes sake and get this project over and done with.

I like how the County planers let Oak Ridge rd. be built up knowing that one end of the road only had a one lane bridge.

Instead of fixing the old bridge maybe they should just blow it up and build a modern two lane bridge.

I use that bridge 3 or 4 times a week going to Mr. D's and I see a lot of traffic uing it in both directions.

Can't say I agree with that but just build a new bridge beside of the old one. It can't be that dang hard. There aren't any houses right on top of the old bridge. Put it on the legion side and be done with it.

Its not like that is the only old stone bridge in the area.

I am progressive as much as the next person but I would be fighting hard to save a bridge that is 175 years old. That even predates the civil war. Too much of our past has been destroyed for progress sake and that it isn't the "only one."

I could agree to keeping it if somebody would adopt it so the taxpayers wouldn't have to keep paying for the upkeep.

As long as it is being used for a public road it is the publics place to pay. however if they would build a bridge beside of it then you could look for someone to undertake the preservation of the old bridge and take it off the public dime.

Nice thoughts, but unfortunately this County will continue to dump money into that bridge for as long as I'm alive.

[Homegrown

Your point and the Commissioners is invalid. Because when that bridge was closed before you didn't have all of the businesses that are there now. You and they are comparing apples to oranges. It is like saying I will have the same effect sweeping my sidewalk only today it is snowing and yesterday it wasn't.

You can't compare economic impact to the past when in the past 95% of the businesses were not there.

Tony
[/quote]


Tony,

Perhaps I didn't phrase my argument the best way. I frequently share your take on things on these forums, but this time, I respectfully disagree wtih you. I realize that the newer businesses in the little strip malls were not there when the bridge was closed in the past . . . although there were still businesses present then. I believe most of the ones on Oak Ridge Place were there, as were the beauty shop just above the bridge, Southern States fuel, etc. And, there were still businesses in Funkstown and along Sharpsburg Pike that were affected. Also, let's not minimize the inconvenience to people who don't own a business, but happen to live on either side of the bridge and may use that route several times a day for various reasons.

People and businesses were affected in the past and will be this time, too, albeit more people and more businesses - some will deal with it for the first time, and for some it will be the second or third time. I'm certainly not anti-business . . . quite the contrary. I don't wish the inconvenience on anyone, but my biggest problem with even considering delaying the project (at the risk of losing a million in federal funds) or building a temporary bridge for over another million bucks is the precedent that it will inevitably set. The Commissioners are right - every time something like this comes along, the cries that "you must accommodate us, because you accommodated the new businesses on E. Oak Ridge Drive in 2008" will be repeated over and over, forcing unnecessary delays and dramatically increasing costs (read: our taxes).

Whether or not the bridge should be permanently replaced is another issue that I'm not ready to delve into. But it is apparent that the current bridge needs work now, so let's get it done before we lose the federal money and while the best weather for doing it is here. And I reiterate my disgust of the state delegation for interfering in this local matter for such shallow reasons.

Well we aren't really getting the whole picture as politicians sometime do they pick the numbers that favor their position. I believe today it was in the paper that the "funding" is not going to be lost if the bridge is repaired later than anticipated. I think the Commissioners and delegation are disagreeing how much a temporary bridge cost, one says a million and one says 230,000. My guess somewhere in the middle.

What we really do need to delve into though is the bridge should be replaced. As you have pointed out it has been closed numerous times before for repairs. Why keep spending money to fix it? I still think pulling a Wilson's bridge would be the way to go. The bridge wouldn't close till the new one was open.

Now as for the delegation. They are as worthless as some members of the city council. Actually worse. Myers, Shank and Donoghue should all resign we have had enough of meddling, bull testicles, and not showing up. Had they really wanted to do something why not this:

1. exempt all of the businesses (that will suffer economic impact, not the Quarry or UPS and Fedex since they don't really use the bridge) within a certain area from state tax for the period the bridge is closed (offsets lost income)

2. allow those same businesses not to charge sales tax for the same period (incentive for the customers to go out of their way a little)

3. the county should also waive taxes for any of those businesses for that period

4. guarantee that the bridge will be closed for x period of time unless a natural disaster occurs - no funding problems causing work to be stopped or contractor issues. Put penalties in place for any contractor taking the contract


The businesses will survive and not lose their shirts because not all of their business will be gone. The savings in taxes will offset the loss. The county and the state won't have to fund a study or pay for a temporary bridge and that should offset the lost tax dollars. Everyone wins in this scenario if you close for repairs.


Tony

Tony,

I'll do you one better. Let's just take the money that the delegation wants to spend to determine the impact to the businesses and just give it to the businesses that will be impacted. We know they will be impacted some by the bridge closure, but why do we have to know how much? What a waste of money! If they are going to waste the money anyway, just give it to the guys who will be losing money instead of giving to one of these consultants who perofrms this type of study.

I don't think we need the study. Just proves that Shank is as big an idiot(arrogant to) as Myers. The only reason I say about the taxes is because you are giving a percentage based on business since that is how taxes are calculated. Everyone would get teh same deal and you wouldn't have one business with better politcal ties getting more money than another without those ties. That is the problem you run into with a fixed dollar sum.

We cannot remove the bridge, widen it, reduce the viewshed, or any other means of altering per the Maryland Historic Trust.

The private property owners own the property you propose to place an alternative bridge, and to my knowledge are not interested in losing (selling) any property for that purpose.

We maintain this bridge largely with federal dollars that are on a specific schedule for use.

The temporary bridge at minimum based on professional analysis would cost 750,000.

Granting such "breaks" would open the door to require granting such "breaks" on all public projects where such a claim could be argued.

The solution to this issue is Southern Blvd, which will reduce traffic from 9,000 cars per day to 1,000 per day.

The area this new road is planned for is going to dpeend heavily on developer driven funding. However, after being talked about for 30 years this Board of CC has decided to add funding of design work in the budget for the first time ever.

There are both incentives in the contract to finish early as well as penalties for delay.

The above are basic facts, not some political viewpoint.


I would like to be able to pull out of my office everday and go left onto Eastern Blvd. That is not possible because of wrok to widen this road, and it will only get worse for some time, while this project is under way. This detour adds 5 miles ot my trip each day nad thus affects mine and every other business's livelihood along this road.

I attended the informational meeting on the Johnathan St project the other night. This will affect several businesses on that street for months at a time until it is complete, not to mention residents getting to and from their homes. They will need to use alternative routes.

The Court House project has had countless change orders and has impacted the HT Bank drive through on numerous occasions.

Vehicle delay and inablity to cross lanes along Maugans Avenue have reduced access to businesses along both sides of this route while this project is underway.

I could on and on, but I think the point of the precedent this approach would set is pretty clear.

Why don't you go up two blocks to Diamond Court, go around the block and make a left at the light at Professional Court? It would save you mileage, but you might spend more time waiting for the light.

Because that would route only leads me back into the cars waiting to go south that I am passing by going up around Pangborn, and I do believe significant delays will get much worse before they get better, but in the end a 4 lane road is the necessary result and I accept the inconvenience that will occur until teh end result is achieved.

Yeh, it will be a nice four lane road until you get to the county line.

It would have been nice if they would have stuck to the first plans they had for Eastern. It was suppose to be a BY- PASS not a Bulavard. Oh but wait we have a developer who wants to put up some things along that road. OK a bulavard it is. Once again a who you know.

Indeed McGee, it is quicker to go through downtown anymore for North - South travel. Well at least for me it is.

That is the City's plan. To get you into the downtown. Next they will be putting nails down so that your tires blowout and you have to get out of your car on a hot, sunny day. While you are out of your car you might stop by and get yourself a nice cup of lemonade at one of the shops. While you are drinking your lemonade you might get hungry and grab a crab cake sandwich at Duffy's. Now that you are full you might say to yourself, "wow maybe I should catch a show at the MD theater." It just so happens that your wife's birthday is the next day so you decide to grab her a nice birthday gift at one of the great shops; while walking back to the tire shop on Franklin St. to get your car.

That's the best plan I've seen yet for drawing people downtown.

Great Shops, downtown? W(hen)TF did that happen? Remember, someone told us that the County owns just about everything downtown.

Patten, Didn`t you see the plans for the new county building?

It has a flower shop, a snack bar also a barber shop. That`s so the county employes can shop and look good for the boss. While us tax payers check out the dumpster after hours for left overs.

And a spa can't forget the spa.

Bump

I saw this headine today...

http://www.herald-mail.com/?cmd=displaysto...amp;format=html

Gee, I wonder if Mr. Demory and all the other people complaining about the bridge closure will be up in arms over today's events too. Maybe they will go after the property owner and the county for lost revenue for today as well. I would be interested to hear if their businesses suffered any significant loss today?

You know your comment is plain ignorant and inconsiderate to those business owners. They work hard and times for all businesses aren't good and the County wants to cut off one of the two directions that their business comes from. I am sure you won't hear one of those business owners complaining about a tree falling down or will they "go after" anyone. What gives you the right to criticize them for being concerned about their businesses and to insult them by accusing them of looking for people to go after. After you have worked your ass for awhile to get something and then have someone tell you that you have no control over a decsion that could ruin it, see how you feel!!!

Yeh, maybe they should just leave the bridge alone then when it collapses they can close the road permanently.

No they should build a new bridge since it is a heavily traveled road it doesn't matter as some have said the property owners don't want to sell to build the new bridge or not. The Supreme Court ruled that your land can be siezed to build a damn shopping center then it sure cna be siezed to make a road improvement that is much needed. Keep the old bridge and build a new one. THey need to start thinking for the future and even fixing the bridge it is still going to be a bottleneck.

I will agree with that, build a modern bridge.

Is it really in danger of falling or breaking any time soon? I have never seen a big traffic jam there before. I think it is fine the way it is. Sorry if you previously discussed these issues.

Ithlilian,
Stop by the Funkstown fire hall around 4:30pm. Then you can see a bottle kneck traffic jam.
Good luck turning left heading east on oak ridge at the fire hall.

Hey, I have an idea of what to do with the bridge. Why don't they just accidently knock it down like they did the farmhouse, that was also on the National Register of Historic Places, that was located on Mt Aetna Rd., when they wanted to build some townhomes. Whoops, actually no one said a word nor was there an uproar when it was razed. Oh well, sh....t happens accidently on purpose!

I kinda remember that.

Wasn't Merbaugh (and sons) contracted to do that IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT?

Pass it on the way home from work, and by morning...POOF...GONE!

Ah, now that you mention it, I purposely went the long way home from work to avoid the bridge because traffic in funkstown is horrible everywhere at around 4:15. Not so much the bridge, but I really noticed that light was ridiculously backed up. The light by the new hobby shop that was a sub shop long ago, the big antique store, you know? That is a horrible wait, traffic backed up all the way to the twigg cycle place.

If there wasn't a bridge there I would never go to those shops. The long way around is like a 10 min detour, I'll go home that way because it saves time, but not for shopping.

That's a good idea BlueBirder, if it worked once before I'm sure it could work again.

Blow it up!!!!