1.1 million. What a deal?
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The Fleecing of Washington County.

This property is a bargain??

Sure to a government entity with no fiscal accountability.

I love the "walking distance". Hope they budgeted for golf carts. I just love the way these deals get done and then become news. They already know how much it will cost to remodel because they all already got their contractors and kickbacks lined up?? Throw in the bus parking thing and problems are solved? I Love my County.

The first question should be WHO owns Trend VI LLC.

The first owner was the Safe- Way grocery stores chains.

Well they have to spend the money if they want a bigger budget next year.
The kids at the housing project right behind it will have a field day busting windows out of the vehicles.

Why didn`t they buy the old EJ Fennal bldg. right across the street from the school board?

I can't say for positive but I believe the Board attempted to go after the Finnel bldg. and was shot down, their was talk about that months ago. On a positive note on this topic if you guy's had to drive a bus up on that bus lot it has become a nightmare for parking for us as employee's. Most of the time some of us have to pull the bus out and have to park in the bus spot with our vehicles or park along Commonwealth and walk in. Let's face it folks the board has grown and we need the room. By moving the maintenance crew this will be a huge benefit to all of us. On a kinder note at least the BOE is rehabbing a current building instead of building and taking up more land. Washington County BOE has been hit hard with new families coming in everyday. In the up coming time frame I'm sure you will all see MORE new bus's on the road way's to handle the amount of students we have to haul in an effort to avoid over crowded issues on them.
I can understand everyones concerns with spending tax dollars and I'm with you on that. But what about the ton's of wasted money by local government (and yes that has been addressed) that seems to go by the way side? But when it comes to the BOE spending it suddenly becomes a massive issue? Seriously I'm not be Senegal I'd like to know why it becomes a problem when the BOE Members try to better our student's way of learning and making room where it's needed? Times is not what we knew them as anylonger. What we should be focusing on more then money being spent is the behavior's and manors these kids are bringing to us. To this day if my mother heard of me telling another adult to "Go F*** off" like many of us hear today I would loose my teeth. Why isn't their more a concern with the upbringing and teaching these kids. They need to have, earn, and give respect. These kids are using this "No Child Left Behind Act" to become bullies, hate filled, and in many cases the parent's are looking for an easy money ticket IMO.

To Heyceeo, Staff are required to do feasibility studies. That's how they knew the cost of rennovation. That's why it is called a "feasibility " study!!!

To Dodge May, I agree with you about needed space for buses and the county growing, but what do you mean by "the kids are using NCLB to become bullies and hate filled"? I do not get the connection.

What I mean Chief is some of these kids are using this NCLBA to get their way on the bus's as well as in the schools. IMO, Their taught very well to back talk, tell drivers, assistants, and their teachers to F*** off. In some cases daring you to touch them and then they tell you "My parent's will sue the H**** out of the board." In a recent case you all never heard about a student punched a driver several times and the driver got into some minor trouble because they blocked the punches. The student's parent's wanted to sue. Thank God we have state of the art cameras on board. They use this "Law" to get their way is what I mean. What ever happened to good Ole fashion discipline? And I'm not talking about kicked out for a day. I am not a believer in BEATING, a child so let's not go nut's on this but a good old fashion butt spanking never hurt my kids, IF it was needed. We shouldn't have to have schools such as Cedar Ridge, Laurel hall ect..... Principals need to have a more firm hand along with the board in punishing these type of kids. And for the record its not mostly the city kids ok. Surprise!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And thanks for seeing that we need the room at the board.

If you need room fine, but don't get suckered into 1.1 million for property that, I'm sure is not worth that much. Haven't you heard the real estate bubble has burst?

The property's last sale was in 2004 for $1.2 million.

That location is not really a prime location for commerical business. It changed hands like I change my shirts.
Even a parts store. didn`t make it in that building. The BOE will put it to good use,

Good use, of that I have not doubt. I just question the price being paid.

What was the property appraised for? I'm sure this government entity did get an appraisal prior to making a purchase contract.

You're so right Mcgee. Why have a business in that location that would try to be profitable. They just won't make it.
Patton
I do understand the cost factor that's a concern with all of us. But even if the BOE would have spent the money on building a new facility, That is so desperately needed, it would have been far more then 1.1 million IMO. The land, building, fixings inside it. What they're decision of buying a existing building and making it into something useful is far better then taring up more land. Sorry I'm not picking at you on this it's just my opinion.

According to SDAT (Maryland Property Records), the value of the property as of 01/01/08 is:

Land $507,100
Improvements $975,200
_________
Total $1,482,300

Independent appraisal please.

Dodge, no biggie, my fear is the Hidden costs, or the costs that weren't in the paper.

If this area is not secure as McGee made it sound, then there is going to be the cost of a fence, and possibly security. How much there?

Repaving? How much?

Need I go on?

I see your point Patton. I would assume (and that starts with ass, can make a big one out of all of us) that beings that building was a former dealership that it would have video survailence already there, along with an alarm system. Paving of the lot, Well IMO it don't need it. The fence is already around the back side of it blocking off the Frederick Manor housing. Why would they need more fence. Oh wait I know why spending. LOL.... Yeap thats a given. Sorry that was the devil in me saying that.

Was there a need to have this facility close to the existing BOE facility on Commonwealth? If so OK. If not, I wonder if any consideration was given to utilizing property that the BOE already owns. Aren't they soon going to be tearing down two elementary schools? Could they possibly have used part of these school buildings and the ground that surrounds them for this purpose?

Drevin
What the maintenance department carries are the Tractors., Dump trucks, Backhoes those kind of things just to mention a few, and No they wouldn't be able to use a former school due to the new ones being right beside them. It would disrupt the student's daily lesson's. Too much noise. Those tractors aren't very quiet. Great point if the schools weren't built so close to the others. But no this wouldn't work.

How long ago was the dealership active? I would bet most of the infrastructure is old and outdated, and the government doesn't want that, they want state of the art. So add a few more $$ to this.

There's been a dealer there within the last year or so. And it seemed modernized about 3 years ago when I stopped there to look at a car. I remember because I called them later to find out the price of the car I was looking at and got in a tiff with the salesman because it was their policy not to give prices over the phone.

Come on, patton, it's not always a negative when the govt. makes buys like this. Just usually.

Until proven incorrect Sman, I'm not buying.

I have had a question posted to Kid for over a week and still no answer.

LOL, I had a friend go there once and they wouldn't give him the price at all. Their "policy" was to run a credit check and depending on your credit, they adjusted the price. That's probably why they didn't sell any cars and are now out of business.

I agree with Patton though. The property sure doesn't look like its worth 1.1 mil. That's a lot of freakin money for that lot! I have no doubt that the space is needed, I just question the realistic value.

The last dealership there was Eastern's Toy store. What a freakin joke they were. They plucked my nerves when I stopped to see a former manager of mine just as a freind stop to say Hi. And 2 salespeople ask if I knew my credit score, So to irritate them I told them it was only 227. My Star's you should have seen them run. Then I went back about 3 hour's later in my truck, Walked up to the same salesman and showed them my actual credit score, I smiled like a typical smart Azz and laughed in their face. Told their manager (my freind) what took place and his response to me was "Sorry, that's standard protocal" Go Directly to ________ I left and haven't heard from my Former freind since that day a little over a year ago.

If the purchase of this property is for the BOE Maintenance Department, I wonder if anyone has considered consolidating this function with the similar functions operated by the county and the city of Hagerstown. If these units were consolidated into one site, this would eliminate the need for multi sites and the costs associated with them. I would also think that there would be a considerable opportunity to leverage staff and equipment in a much more efficient manner. I believe that this 'silo mentallity' of operating taxpayer-funded functions in an inefficient manner really needs to be resolved.

Amen, Drevin, but the name of their game is Job Security and protection of each individuals Fiefdom.

The thought of sharing resources, is great. But do I expect it to happen? Highly doubtful. Even with the county buying half of H-town, I doubt one bit any synergies will be realized.

How about it Kid? Is there any kind of overall view taken on such functions when it comes to spending tax dollars? Was there any feasibility study done to determine if consolidating these maintenance functions would be more cost effective? Are we as a county destined to continue spending tax dollars in this manner or is there any hope that the BOCCs will somehow provide an overall oversight into matters like these?

Kid, I know in the past I have been nothing but critical, and I would understand if you blow this post off completely.

But....

I believe the county should look at creating Centers of Excellence, such as personnel, facilities management, buildings and grounds, etc., for all county "touched" things, i.e. BoE, and, if the Mayor and council would agree, the city.

Think about it, it works in private industry, and has been proven, let's give it a looksy in the county administration.

Not blowing it off, just haven't been in office all day.

The BOE stated at our meeting on Tuesday an appraisal was done (not the assessed value as was listed already) and the appraisal came out to just over 2 million.

I believe if you check back over the past year you will find that BOE facilities folks suggested using a piece of land they already own in Williamsport for a central bus hub, but it was shot down after the town received several complaints from nearby residents that did not want it next to their homes. It was also part of the reason the BOE was looking at the Allghany Power site, but when the BOCC expressed concern over taking this marketable property off the market of potential sites fro future economic development efforts, that idea was abandoned as well.

As part of an outreach process with our 27 fire and rescue companies I have been going around to meet with each over the past couple months and will continue to finish up over the nect couple months. One recommendation that will clearly come from out of these meetings and that I have alluded to already is a Central Maintenance Hub for all county functions, of which I see no reason other governing entities should not be included. I brought this up under budget discussion on Tuesday and asked that we out it in our long range CIP.

Anyway, at the end of this 6 month meeting process with each of our 27 fire and rescue companies I hope to take back a comprehensive report to my repsective governing peers with recommendations on these very types of issues. (sorry did not mean to hijack the thread for a moment)

I also asked in my questions to the recent BOE budget if we are going to consider a joint insurance policy process with the County, BOE, and City, but given the inherent personnel complexities and different plan systems that issue appears less likely to come to fruition. However, Drevin, yes I would prefer taking a more wholistic approach on a lot of these shared public funds issues.

I would ask for a second opinion on the appraisal, personally, that seems way high, based on todays market situation.

Thank you for your thoughts on the CoE's. I will support this whole heartedly.

They already have fencing on 3 sides. So the cost of more fencing would not be that much more on cost.
They also have black top all around the building. and plenty of lighting on the outside. It is located next to a Housing development for low income familys. The roof is about 35 years old or maby more. They should look at it before buying.
A cost for a new hot tar roof on that size of a building would be around $200.00 per sq. 10`x10` is a sq. I would say that there is roughly 500sq. in that roof. JMO

The appraised value stated at the BOE meeting was $2,025,000. There is not enough room at Pangborn or at Maugansville for bus parking or a maintenance shop , which someone already pointed out would be too noisy that close to a school anyway. Part of this building is already a garage, outfitted for maintenance of vehicles. The front portion of the building will be turned into offices to help with overcrowding at the administration building. Watch the rerun of the BOE meeting on Saturday at 1 pm if you want the whole story.
Many people seem to forget that the Washington County Board of Education is now the largest employer in the county; it has surpassed the hospital.

And.....?

Does that give the BOE carte blanche as far a spending? I don't think so.

Have you/they explored a joint maintenance facility with the county?

But the children, don't forget the children.

That's what gives the BOE carte blanche as far a spending.

Do you realize how large a joint maintenance facility for the county/BOE/city would have to be? What would happen with the current facilities once abandoned for a mega complex?

Not that I believe the BOE should have carte blanche, but what is more precious or more vital to our futures than our youth? Have you priced a literature textbook lately? Do you have any idea how many computers the BOE owns, maintains, or purchases yearly as models crash or just will no longer handle the downloads? What does it cost to replace a school's piano that is literally on its last leg? Can you imagine the budget for diesel fuel for buses or heating oil for school buildings? I am not saying that there are not areas where the BOE could tighten its belt; I am just saying, that before you all are so quick to criticize, you should have a look at the 5-year Master Plan and the detailed CIP and General Fund budgets? 82% of the budget is for instructional salaries and benefits; 11% is facilities maintenance; 4% is transportation; and the remaining 3% is non-instructional (that includes the majority of the staff at the Board of Ed).

Chief, that textbooks and computers (for learning) are what the BOE should be concentrating on.

Your budget is no different than any other. High expens is on Salaries, then facilities, etc. Any Accounting 101 student, should know this.

One of the first places you can look is at the 3% non-instructional staff, were you to share the resources with the rest of the county departments and be charged based on an allocation, I believe you will find savings.

"82% of the budget is for instructional salaries and benefits"

WOW

If any of you are really interested in the BOE's facility use, the BOE is holding a roundtable discussion on facility usage at South High, Tuesday, Apr. 22 at 6:30. It is for the public to ask questions, express ideas, offer suggestions, etc.

Why the generic reply? Why hold the meetings where it is inconvientent for the majority?

Forgive me chief, I do not know if you are an elected official or not.

If you want the meeting to mean something, don't hold it in one place and expect the county to come to you, hold the meetings in places which make it easy for the county to reach you.!.!

BTW, I am very interested. Your subltle attempt at an insult was not missed. I am insulted!

Chief:

The claim of 82% of the budget going to instructional salaries and benefits is very misleading at best. Just becasue the school system can classify employees into an 'instructional' category doesn't mean that they are really involved in instruction. So I took your advice and looked at the budget for this year and it tells quite a different story when you look at the detail. So let's look at the meat of the budget:

Classroom Instructional Programs $ 78.6 million
Career Technology $ 5.1 million
Gifted and Talented $ 3.3 million
Library $ 3.1 million
Special Education $ 14.9 million
================================
Total $105 million

Now let's throw in about $20 million for benefits since not all of the $105 million is salaries. So that puts us at about $125 million out of a $230 million budget. That's only about 54% not 82%.

Now you can argue other categrories like the student achievement specialists that cost an additional $3.7 million. They get counted in the 'instructional' category but they don't teach at all. Same with guidance counselors. The bottom line is that the budget produces a very misleading impression of having much of the money actually going towards the actual teaching of our children.

Now as for effecive use of our tax dollars, that's another story. Without having more detail than what is in the budget, it's hard to determine the level of inefficient spending. A couple of questionable salary levels do pop up right away. It appears that Human Resources is the place that you want to be. They have seven (7) 'professionals' working there averaging over $90,000 per year. If you can't get a job there, you should really become a librarian. With no homeroom responsibilitiies, no real course prep work, no homework to grade, you get paid over $60,000 per year for a 10-month job. If you can't get that job, you can become an elementary school gym teacher and get paid $60,000 per year - this one is too easy to criticise so I won't touch it. If you are not a teacher though, you can go to the area of Testing and Accountability. There they have three (3) 'professionals' who are paid $80,000 each. Fortunately for them too is that they are given another $180,000 to use for 'research consultants' when the workload gets too tough.

I'll look into it a bit more, but from a very top-level view, the fat is pouring out all over the place.

I attended this meeting last night and I think there were 50+ people there especially from the Boonsboro, Williamsport, and Smithsburg area, so I think folks were able to get to it. I think however, trying to combine a discussion on the new community rec centers at the 3 new elementary schools and the issue of gym and field use into one itme was a bit confusing. I made a few comments when asked about "why can't we take the old Lowes and turn it into basketball courts" to which I replied, i was not aware Lowes was empty or being offered to the county for such a purpose. Further, each year we receive State Progrma Open Space Funds, around 2 million each year, but the State decided to use those funds instead this year to balance the State budget and thus cut 1.7 million from our allocation which in turn cut 20 of our 23 park projects from our budget.

I was also asked "why can't the new Callas stadium be more used?" to which I replied that is not a BOCC decision to make, but rather BOE policy and thus under the elected BOE to decide. I was also asked "why can't we do more private/public partnerships?" to which I cited the Ice Rink as a failed endeavor to which the City has went from partnering in just over 100,000 per year to paying the full freight at more than 200,000 per year and that if the North Stadium would not have been atteached to the school system, it most likely would not have recieved more than 1.4 million in public dollars to make it happen.

Things that came to mind from that meeting are obviously the level of needs expressed by all of the sports organizations and how we provide public funds for recreational activities. We must understand there are more than 150,000 residents in this community and not all recreation funds can go toward sports related activities. Also, we must look at successful examples that have worked without public funding, such as the Hagerstown Soccer Club who bought and developed their own fields and run their own program. Now there is talk again of building a new professional baseball stadium which would mean public funding at more than 300,000 per year when it is already subsidized by the City at more than 120,000 per year.

Anyway, this is getting way off topic.

Patton,
I am not an elected official and I had nothing to do with the location of the meeting at South High. I was merely letting those who seem to be interested in the BOE's possible acquisition of the Toy Store property that there was a meeting entitled "Facilities Useage" which I interpreted as meaning any topic related to any facilities owned by the BOE or being considered would be fair game. However, it seems that with the exception of one question by a church group and one question by an after school care provider, all the questions related to the use of athletic facilities. No one asked anything about the Toy Store property. Chief

Thank you chief.

Apparently some folks just don't seem to care.

Thanks kid & chief! I should have looked here first rather than post in the shoutbox! As a leader of a scouting troop all I can say is 5 years ago we left because we were 'informed' 3 weeks before school started we had to pony up $10(the fax said $10, but then we called & they discounted it to $5) per meeting to cover 'expenses'. As a result, the scouting troops left.

Now I understand ABC builders no longer trains at the schools either, but has built their own facility.

My question is the same one I presented 5 years ago at the BOE and the BOCC: Since our taxes pay for these facilities, why cannot they not be used by the non-profits for sports and scouts and so forth? The answer was clear--we were not able to pay, so they did not care to listen to us. So now most of the packs/troops meet in churches and homes.

Drevin,
First, for the full plan of how and why money is spent and what is expected to be accomplished by the expenditure, you need to read the school system's Five Year Master Plan, which is required by law, must be updated every year and is reviewed by MSDE annually. It is in a notebook about 1 foot thick, but is available in disc form from the Public Information Office at the BOE.
You did not include $12.4 million for principals, vice-principals, school managers, etc. in your analysis of the instructional budget. You left out $4.1 million in privale facility placements for severely handicapped special needs students, and benefits are $40 million, not $20 million. Student Achievement Specialists do spend a percentage of their time actually teaching, but there other tasks help teachers teach better. For instance, the SAS's analyze student data which teachers do not have the time to analyze. This data allows teachers to know specifically what skills a student is weak on or just didn't get so he or she can provide individual attention to that student. SAS's have many other tasks, all of which help the classroom teacher do his or her job more effectively. So yes they should be counted in the instructional category. Guidance counselors (who by the way) have an average case load of about 500 to one) do go into classrooms to teach lessons on career choice, drug an alcohol lessons, PSAT and SAT importance, college selection, etc. They guide students in their choice of courses and programs which determines the instructional paths they will take (not to mention helping students deal with personal problems). Librarians also teach classes such things as the Dewey Decimal System, what resoures are available and how to locate and utilize them, how to access the various data bases and what each is useful for, how to use the on-line card catalog, and how to use computers for research, etc. How could teachers function without libraries and librarians to keep them running efficiently? Librarians are also responsible for all the audio visual equipment in the school as well as all the computers and computer programs. How can you say they are not vital to the instructional program. The instructional portion of the budget never says "actual teaching," but education of youth is made up of much more than "readin', writin', and 'rithmetic'!
Let's talk about Human Resources next. Remember that the school system is now the largest employer in the county. Yes there are 7 professionals working in that department. Those professionals are individuals who are in the mid to later stages of their careers; they need to be to have the expertise and experience for the tasks they have. So we are not talking beginning salaries here. I have no idea how many human resource individuals there are working for our local Citi Corps or First Data or the Hospital Association, but I would venture that each has at least 7 professionals there. BOE HR people don't just hire; they handle employee problems and relations; recruit all over the East Coast; handle employee benefits; manage employee records; etc. Next, you questioned the 3 individuals in the area of Testing and Accountability. Traditionally, these individuals were teachers for many years before moving into these positions. Their tasks have become very important not only as the individuals who provide BOE members with data on the myrialds of programs throughout the system so that Board members can make informed decisions on money spent on those programs, but they provide analysis of PSAT, SAT, AP, Benchmark Tests, etc. for supervisors, teachers, BOE members etc. again so decisions can be made about programs. However, much of their time is spent compiling report after report to meet state and federal requirements of such legislation as the Bridge to Excellence and No Child Left Behind. Again,these are typically not individuals at the start of their careers; thus, the higher salaries.
Now let's talk about the elementary gym teachers and other teachers who have little paperwork and not as much preparation as do most teachers. The educational system which says that all teachers are paid based on the same scale which is determined by educational level and years of service has been in existence for decades and decades (I don't really know how long). Many people feel that teachers should be paid as most workers are based not only on those two categories, but also on the difficulty of their particular job. For instance, a high school math teacher's job is different from a middle school art teacher's job which in turn is very different from a third grade teacher's job, etc. Should there be a differentiation in pay depending on the subject and level taught? This would be a monumental change that teachers' associations and unions would fight against tooth and nail! Nevertheless, if you believe this change if fairer or more appropriate, then work for it to occur.