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I think Im one of many adults that did not realize all these accomidations were being made. I always thought the one stop rule was in place. When my daughter needed to get somewhere else I just would never have thought a note sent in to school would get her onto a different bus completely. Its a wonder there are not stray confused kids walking all over the Co.!!

I for one am not surprised by this at all.

Today's kids know the "system", they tell the bus driver, "let me off, here" the driver does, because if he/she doesn't, the kid will go cry to mommy and daddy, saying they were "mis-treated". Mommy and Daddy go "sue happy" and cost the taxpayers moocho dinero.

What should be in place, is: Kids are seated and quiet on the bus, don't talk back and shut-up.

Please spare me the squashing of personal liberties bull.

Oh you gotta see this mommy!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHu6M9Zc2Co

I think they simply need to follow their existing policy. This is the school system punishing the citizens for their mistake. So typical.

Patton, if what you describe is the system as it is today, then we've got criminally negligent bus drivers. Fortunately I do not think you're anywhere near the truth. The currrent County policy requires the bus drivers to do as the kids parents specify, in writing, in advance. That is perfectly reasonable as long as they follow it. The only reason they are considering this change is because the county screwed up and now they think everyone else should suffer for their mistake.

Since my kids' school friends live all over the place, it was always very convenient when one or the other party wanted (or needed) to sleep over at the others', for both sets of parents to send in notes and then everything was set. My example was totally for convenience. Some of the examples given in the article are not.

B, I have no idea what current policy is, and don't really care. My child, as long as I can help it, will not step foot into WCPS's, or any other "Public" school system.

Public schools have unfortunately lost their moral standing, just as the majority of society has.

I totally agree and wish I could have afforded to take that position myself. But until we get a voucher system where the students' tax dollars go where they go, folks like me are out of luck. We seem to have to spend our lives trying to undo all of the liberal brainwashing.

What were the benefits of this new policy? Is the current policy a safety concern? I don't see the problem with what we have now.

Kids seem to ride whatever bus they want, but if the driver notices they kick them off. There is no role call or anything on a bus, and changing the "policy" probably won't have much of a positive effect.

I'm going to chime in here.

This may also be a cost item. The buses are set up at the beginning of the year based on the number of riders in a given route. By having children constantly changing I am sure at times certain buses are overcrowded or almost empty. If my child could not get a seat because there were 'tag-a-longs' on the way home, I would be really irritated.

(It probably has happened, I just have not heard about it from my kids. And since this is apparently the 'norm' on the school buses, it would not even be mentioned by the average student to their parents).

It is also a LAWSUIT waiting to happen! If you do not know the riders and where they get on & off everyday, there is a greater chance that the child will be picked up or left at the wrong stop or forgotten altogether!

I cannot believe this was considered a normal policy! When I was a kid(okay--30years ago), there was never any change in where you got off or on the bus-you got on & off at YOUR STOP...period.. If you needed to stay after school, go visit your friends, whatever, a parent did it..Sounds like the parents have forgotten their in charge of where and how their kids get places.

And who is to say exactly what kids are supposed to be on the bus? 30 or however many kids crowd into a bus and the bus driver takes off. No one calls off names on a checklist or checks to see that someone is tagging along, regardless of what the "policy" is. What about students with divorced parents that may go to different houses during a week. Or having your kid stay with a grandparent while the parents are out? I don't think they should change the policy, but if they do, I don't think it will prevent kids changing buses at all.

I didn't realize school buses had turned in to taxi cabs.

Thats exactly what they are doing away with! Monday ride to Paulys house. Tuesday get close to the mall, Wednesday go straight home, Thursday babysitters house....all different buses, drivers having to deal with this.....

Overcrowding on certain buses has been a serious safety issue that I have personal knowledge of with regard to WCPS, but it has never had anything to do with kids staying over at friends houses.

I repeat: this is all about the incident they had last year when the school screwed up and forced an elementary student onto the wrong bus. Now they want to inconvenience the entire county because their employees screwed up.

P.S. - This is a common theme with WCPS, in my experience. Their employees screw up and suddenly it's the parents' fault and the parents have to be made to suffer somehow.

At the beginning of the school year, 7 years ago or so, my kids had to have a picture to give to the bus driver and it stayed with the bus--so that the bus driver could tell who was on his/her route. It only makes sense from a safety standpoint. And I notice that alot of the parents of young children in my neighborhood stand by the bus to get their kid back off the bus in the afternoon and wait with the kids in the morning to make sure they get on the bus.

Since your address is where the bus route is set up by (if you do not believe this, they post the bus stops & the riders just before the school year starts), that is where the kid is supposed to go. You sign all kinds of forms stating the kid is yours and who can & cannot pick them up, so I can just see big issues if the kid goes with someone else & it turns out the kid is kidnapped by the non-custodial parent who then harms the child.

Ok Folks hold on here a minute.
1.) Not only does the bus driver have to have a signed note by the principal and by the parent's should he or she be dropped off at any other stop or be allowed to ride another bus.
2.) The amount of student's that ride the bus, it's the driver's responsibility to know each of their of student's. True you won't know each name but, a good driver will learn the face with the stops. I'm all on board with this but I do agree that some things have to have a little work on.
Having said that I don't feel you all are being fair. IMO.
1 is insurance reason's. 2. the driver shouldn't have to be the one to take the wrap for a misbehaved student that is trying to avoid his or her troubles they know they're going to be in due to an issue that took place in school and trying to hop a ride on another bus.

Patton
I totally understand where you're coming from with saying the sue happy go luckies we have now day's. That's ashame. I for one am very pleased that both my children got an exceptional level of schooling through the public school system. Largely in part because my wife and I was right there assisting helping learning with them. Well teaching starts at home!!!!

Thanks Dodge-for giving us a bird's eye view, so to speak. And for supporting my view.

My kids could have stayed at my house & gotten picked up but after school they had to go to daycare. So, what did I do? I took the kids every morning to the daycare home and they went to school from there & were dropped off there every day! I never even thought to ask the school to pick them up at my home & drop them off at a different location! (And I filled out forms to have this done, too! And it was on the same bus! )

Exactly. The current policy is not anything like a "Taxi service". Parents must provide a note and the Principal signs it, and that's the only way a kid is allowed on a bus other than their regular one, and all of the drivers know this. Unless the school screws up, this works very well, and discourages people doing this in excess.

The current policy has served everyone very well. It's only if you have a really bad screw-up that something can go awry. Again, I just don't think it's right to mess with a good policy that they just need to continue to obey.

I can tell you exactly who is to say what kids are supposed to be on the bus... THE BUS DRIVER...
My wife is a school bus driver... she drives here in Washington County... she knows every kid who is supposed to be on her bus.... from day 1 or very soon after..
If someone tries to get on her bus who is not supposed to be there she definitely questions it...
The big problem is that the school administrators DO NOT follow the protocol...
The protocol is that if you want your child to go to a place other than their normal stop, YOU MUST write a note to the school telling them where the child it to go. The school then has to see what bus goes to that location and makes sure the child is directed to the correct bus. The school admins MUST also give the school bus driver a copy of the note from you, countersigned by a school admin saying it is OK to have the child on their bus and to take them to the new location.

Now let's get onto what usually happens....
The parent writes a note to the school....
The school decides the kid should be on a certain bus...
The kid arrives at the bus with a postit note from the school saying it is OK to transport the kid... usually no where does it say where the kid is supposed to go... I guess they think the drivers have second sight or something....
When the driver tries to question the school admin about the note, they are generally told, "Just take the kid where he is supposed to go"...
Since the drivers are on a time limit to get the routes done and be able to pick up at the next school, they rarely have time to argue with the admins....

If they change the policy, those situations will apparently not be accommodated, yet they are exactly the reasons why the existing policy needs to be retained.

I think Griz is reporting corectly, that sometimes the School Admins just don't bother to do the job right. In my experience that kind of negligence traces its origins all the way up to the Principal. Still, the system usually works anyway, and it's only when the school admin really and truly royally screws up that something as egregious as what happened to that kid last year can happen.

If the bus drivers know all of the students and what stops they are supposed to get off on then there is no problem with the current policy. A note has to be signed by a parent and then approved, sounds good to me.

Still sounds like a taxi service to me.

Thank You TXEX.
Finally I did something right on these post's. And to Old Griz. You're dead on Brother but word to the wise becareful posting ok.

I see both sides of this issue. First, I cannot imagine the amount of calls & paperwork that schools & bus drivers have to deal with on a weekly basis when kids choose to ride a different bus 2 or 3 times a week. Not to mention the kids these days are much more "creative" than it seems we were when I grew up. They can think of the craziest things to get one over on all authority figures - parents, teachers, principals & bus drivers. Secondly, with some of the schedules parents & the children of have - it's a wonder anyone, let alone the parents know where their kids are on any given day!

However, in light of changing times & "modern" households - there are some situations that make a "set schedule" almost impossible. I can completely understand, especially with elementary school aged children why parents would rather deal with different bus schedules and locations than to have their young children home alone - even for an hour. I would hope that the Board would be able to create some kind of "happy medium" that would eliminate some of the schools' & drivers' burden, yet accomodate the families in need.

I don't think it's as frequent an occurrence as some of the folks responding are thinking. I know that for my part it was no more than maybe once a year that my daughter ever needed to ride the bus home with a friend.

So once again the WCPS Officials assume that we're just a bunch of idiots who cannot put two and two together. The Board of Ed member has it right and it's obvious to anyone with an IQ above 50 that the revised policy would not even have come up were it not for the incident last year.

I am so sick and tired of WCPS officials' lies and just plain B.S. We are not a bunch of stupid sheep - we know darned well what's going on and we are not deceived! Regardless, the proposed change is totally unacceptable.

I am glad my kids are no longer in your podunk system, so I don't have to deal with it directly anymore. I can just sit back and lament the fact that my tax dollars are supporting such idiocy, and pray for the day that a real voucher system is implemented soon.

Just think you moved to this podunk area, so that kind of makes it your podunk system also.

Most of the things about this area are simply quaint and charming.

But WCPS? It's "World Class" alright - a World Class PoS... and I know I do not need to spell it out for you.

I will be grinding that axe for decades to come, I expect.

I remember some of your problems with WCPS, so I expect you will be grinding that axe for a while.

I just don't hear the word podunk very often and thought it was funny that you moved here.

Maybe "podunk" wasn't quite the right word. I think "f*cked up" is more accurate, but I'll prolly get in trouble for posting that. I don't see anything wrong with being from a small town or having small town charm, etc. But WCPS is just messed up in the extreme.

Us hillbillies over the state lines (i'ma including WV in this one, folks) are agreein' with you B, WCPS is even more eff'ed up than most school systems we be callin' local.

As for "podunk", I'ma thinkin Waynesboro still gets to have that particky award, seeins they still be a'teachin that any disease that starts with an "H" is TERMINAL. (Honest folks, check out their Health Class info....SCARY!)

Especially to BMIC,
I do not know what your past problems were with the school system, but it sounds as though you are allowing those problems to color your reactions to anything related to the school system. Before you or anyone is so quick to criticize this or any other issue, I believe you should first have the facts, in this case the policy and the experiences of elementary school administrators in dealing with bus time at the end of the day. In the 10 minutes or less that it takes to load the buses, the administrators have to deal with seeing that hundreds of children get to their buses. That includes breaking up fights; hurrying stragglers; making sure that adults picking up students who are not the students' legal guardians have permission from the parents and if new, have signed tha proper forms; delivering the notes to the bus drivers about the changes is riders for that day (which sometimes number in double digits); watching that kids do not run out in front of vehicles moving through the parking lots or drive lanes; answering children's questions; etc. Maybe you should follow an administrator during those hectic 10 minutes each day and see how well you could handle the situation while all the while knowing if there is a mistake or if a child gets hurt that in this law suit happy society, you are likely to be named as part of litigation brought against the school system.
It is a taxi service as someone posted and that is not what the school system is suppose to be doing. What happened to parental responsibility? Schools are constantly being given more and more tasks that should be the parents' responsibility--everything from keeping track of students' immunizations to teaching them about drugs and sex.
Maybe you should consider running for the school board; then you would understand the need for tightening policies and the reasoning behind the actions of the those 7 Board members. Chief

applause, applause Chief! Well said!

A "world class" school system would have a clue about how to go about problem solving, root cause analysis and implementation of effective corrective actions. This group however seems to have no clue. Doctor Morgan and her other high priced, highly educated administrators could some training from a local manufacturer who MUST provide good customer service if they intend to stay in business. Government, sadly, doesn't have that worry, though.

Good post Chief! Its going to be another case of "trying to please everybody". Not gonna happen. Remember "Choo-Choo Child care"? When they implemented the "School em where you live, not where they day-care" rules it went bust.

So because I have personally witnessed just how screwed up WCPOS is (hmmm a typo, but fitting), I am not qualified to speak to the subject? Think again, and quit whining about how hard their jobs are (your job is?) - they get paid to do them and they can do better! If you can't handle the responsiblity, go bag groceries at Weis!

The truth is that those who have never had to deal with them to any significant degree have no idea just how bad they can be. I'll be the first to admit that there are a lot of truly good people working for WCPS too (God bless 'em and thank goodness!), but they cannot make up for all of the bad. There need to be some strategic firings - and a lot of them IMO.

I am not a WCPS administrator. One question though, if all these administrators and teachers you claim are so bad are fired, where will replacements come from? Maryland colleges produce only 1/3 the education graduates the state needs each year. Educators in some areas such as foreign language, math, and special ed are almost impossible to find. In addition, because an administrator's job is so stressful and because so much responsibility falls on his or her shoulders, fewer and fewer teachers are opting to earn their administrative credentials and to into administration. What does that fact tell you? Chief

I'll tell you I'm completely turned off from being a teacher after my WCPS experience. I can certainly see where the math teacher and other teacher shortage is coming from (in the high schools at least).

About the quit whining thing: I thought the same thing until I did my internship, it is harder than I thought, but not that hard, especially after a few years. The bad kids will turn you off though, I'd rather have a desk job.

Before firings (in most cases) there needs to be strong leaders who show what is expected and demand it. Then, if that does not work, discipline, up to firing, is appropriate. I have not seen the leadership in many cases.

wow im shocked that so many people in washington county like me think the school system needs to do a re-check on just about everything they do. i am sorry but this system seem's to want to hide everything or cover it up. i know for a fact more than 1 child has been left off at the wrong stop. fact is im lucky every evening if my child is left off at her stop. we never know if the bus is going to stop or not and we are standing there. no joke it happens offten. i dont like these schools one bit. i hate sending my child to school with these under paid mean nasty people. they are rude. very loud. have no respect for the children. talk about bully's i think these kid's in the county learn it from the teachers. next time you walk in a school lissen before your seen sometime

under paid, rude, mean, nasty, loud, no respect, bullys. I dont think so. You say you stand there and do not know if the bus will even stop?? Whats the drivers name? Have you ever talked with them or tried to develop a relationship with them. Say hello sometime. I knew every driver that ever hauled my kid anywhere. (except for the occasional fill in for illness and such) Does your child get off at several stops each week (different thread). There are simple proactive steps that you can do YOURSELF that may make your life so much simpler and ensure your child gets treated fairly. Dont walk into a school and "lissen before your seen", that kind of attitude these days can be dangerous. make your presence known and see if there is anything you can do to help....

no same stop everyday for 5 years i do know the bus driver seems very nice but dose miss our stop offten.

It's bratty annoying kids that don't care about anything and don't want to learn at all that make teachers want to be rude and loud. You try dealing with a classroom of students that will not be quiet, give you an attitude, and act up just to spite you, then you come back and tell me about rude teachers. I love how everyone thinks being a teacher is just so easy, and their children are just perfect angels. Yeah, right. Word your post a little nicer next time, I understand you are angry but don't generalize all teachers.

Thank you Heyco.
We're not all that bad. In Fact I have letters of praise from each of my parent's on the route. I've been told that several Coach's, Band directors and teachers from field trips have all given me praise. But still I can see where it takes two part's to break the ice and some people just aren't as forward with themselves to make that move. But a Simple smile and hello breaks the mold......

If we truly had "World Class Public Schools", the very best administrators from all over would be beating down our doors trying to get jobs working here.

As for the teachers, I have to admit I am not the best judge. My freshest memory was of my personal experience attending a brand-new magnet school where all of our teachers were hand-picked from among the best in county (not WashCo). Compared to them, Wash Co seems like a cesspool filled with teachers who either don't care to succeed or blame their failure on the students. I'll never forget the Geometry teacher who was vocal in his PRIDE over the fact that most of his students failed every semester. He actually didn't realize that at the end of it, he was boasting about his failure to reach them. Only a few "gold nuggets" are scattered about, and far too few to make a real difference for our kids, IMO.

Oh my gosh, I think my son had him for Geometry! There were like 6 kids left in the class after most withdrew and half of those failed. There have been a couple of teachers my kids have had that were excellent, most mediocre and quite a few horrid. My daughter is still in high school and some of her teachers spend a good bit of classroom time bashing President Bush instead of addressing their lessons. One even has a derogatory picture of Bush on his desk and wears anti-Bush shirts. Another teacher spends much of his time pushing his own environmental agenda. I personally don't think any of this is professional and doesn't belong in the classroom. As often as they are given pay increases, I don't think it's the answer. Perhaps if they started teaching year round with the pay adjusted accordingly, fewer slackers would be inclined to take up the profession.

Yes, I'm sure what your kids tell you is the complete truth.

If the majority of students are failing your class now you get fired. You have to keep logs of what you are doing to try to get the kids to pass. Calling parents, extra work at lunch, pull out of another class to help students pass HSA, academic detentions, test retakes, etc. Teachers have to start the log as soon as a student goes below a 70.

If teachers think the classroom is a way to promote their ideas on religion or politics I think that is horrible, you are there to teach only. None of the teachers I've seen in any of my internships act this way.

I wonder if teachers get paid more to teach at magnet schools? Do they have to be certified by the state to do that? I know to teach at private schools you don't have to be certified to teach in the state, because it isn't a state school.

Some of the students at my most recent internship went to magnet schools, the majority of them are very bright, but some were not understanding math at all. I'm sure magnet schools are great, but I don't see how public education is worse. If you are in the highest classes, you will get a good education, if you are in a low leveled or medium leveled class full of students that don't care, you will have teachers that don't care, and the other students' attitudes may rub off on you (as a student). That is what I have noticed at least, from my experiences.

I don't see where the negativity for public school is coming from. As someone said before, I came from WCPS and got my college degree just fine. They certainly do fire a lot of teachers if they aren't up to par, tenure or not.

The problem may be that many schools are full of young teachers now (my internships were) and they seem to not be as professional. They decorate their rooms with posters of whatever, they don't dress nicely (jeans and flip flops), and they seem to just want to be the students' friend. That could be causing a problem. Sorry so long.

I was one of 5 or 6 parents who actually showed up for back to school night and personally heard this Geometry teacher proudly tell us how very few kids manage to pass his class. I was so shocked that I asked around afterwards and confirmed that yes the guy had a reputation for flunking most of his students. I should have asked him right there what he was doing to improve his teaching skills since his performance was so abysmal, but somehow I got the impression he would not have taken it well.

He seemed to represent my overall experience with WCPS. If the kids have any kind of problems it's 100% the students' (and/or parents') fault. The teachers and Admin never accept any responsibility.

Sounds as though some of you are projecting; you have one or two bad experiences and you project that experience on to every other teacher or administrator or bus driver in the county. As with everything else, people only tend to communicate the negative; all the positive that happens is ignored. People only speak up when they are dissatisfied. I still say that those who are so critical should sit in the back of a couple of classrooms at each level for a few days and then give an evaluation.
P.S. Judging by the poor grammar and poor spelling on most of the posts in this strand, many of you didn't pay attention or study when you were in school just as many of today's students do not. Chief

"P.S. Judging by the poor grammar and poor spelling on most of the posts in this strand, many of you didn't pay attention or study when you were in school just as many of today's students do not. Chief"

What do you expect, most of the posters probably went to Washington County Public Schools.

Oh we are sooo funny. I must be uneducated...

No, I'm ok. What I want to say is what I just said. If teachers fail too many students they get fired. Parents get on my nerves. As a teacher, a good teacher, if a lot of students fail the test then there is something wrong with the way you taught it, or the test itself. It is usually not the students fault, not if everyone is failing. I've dealt with my share of brats though, and you make think your little JimBo is just an angel...ugh. I don't know why I'm talking about this stuff, I don't want to be a teacher anymore...

Where they went has nothing to do with the self-discipline of paying attention.