Oh please. This, coming from Mr. Deragatory himself. When you stop with the antagonistic, eye-rolling, devil's advocate behavior, then feel free to criticize this statement. Otherwise, go act mad aboout something else.

And I think religious people are oversensitive and look for slights where there are none. Until somebody else, possibly you, brought religion into this topic, it never even crossed my mind that having all these kids was due to a religious influence.

No act there darling.

Me either... I just thought the woman was nuts!

Well, you're the one that made the statement, "there's another reason why I am glad I'm not a believer"! something like that.

Your second post. Your first mentions Catholicism. Both of these before I made my statement about not being a believer.

Jeez! This is what I'm talking about with the touchiness.

Sman,

I'm trying to make the point that some people have alot of kids due to firm religious beliefs. That is not ridiculous, IMO. I don't have to agree with it, but saying that people are being irresponsible is not accurate or truthful.

That's fine. It's your opinion. But you and Patton are accusing those that don't agree with you of having some hidden agenda against families or religion or all of the above. I can only speak for myself, but that's hogwash. I clearly stated why I didn't agree with having 18 kids and religion or being anti-family wasn't my reason.

I'm very aware that several members here that I enjoy interacting with are religious and often feel (often justifiably) they get attacked because of their beliefs, so I try not to "go there". But if I wanted to bash families or religions, rest assured I'd just come out and do it.

This family knows how to have fun! I wonder if they'll adopt me? I can read, play piano (and guitar in Rock Band on Hard mode), and I know how to work heavy machinery. Those kids must be the happiest kids EVER!

I'm not bashing religion... that is just a really, REALLY dull day for a kid, in my not so humble opinion.

And there you have it. I'm done.

I personally don't think any of you have the right to judge what is "too many children". As long as they are paying their bills they have every right to tell the rest of you to go take a flying leap.

My first wife was the 11th of 12 kids. But they could afford it. Her dad was Haiti's Undersecretary of State for Agriculture and they owned extensive property and had household servants, until he lost the Presidential election to Papa Doc Duvalier and he had to seek political asylum for his family to save their lives.

My own grandfather was one of 11 kids. But they all grew up on a large farm/plantation and came from a long line of big families on that plantation. Nobody went hungry and all the bills got paid, so who's to judge them? That family gave us several prominent Americans including a certain Secretary of War under Lincoln (darned Yankee - my great great Grandpa supposedly kicked him off of the property on at least one occasion).

All of this pseudo-intellectual nonsense about harming the environment and needing to restrict people's ability to reproduce is really a bit shocking. I've read that some people still clung to those ridiculous notions, and heard it was behind the pro-abortion, pro-euthanasia "culture of death", but I am still surprised to see some folks spewing that nonsense so freely. There is an evil underbelly to the environmental and "pro-choice" movements. I am just surprised to see so many willing to speak out so openly about their opposition to human life.

You preaching about being judgmental? Now that is delicious irony.

It's "too many children" when the kids need to make an appointment! to see their own mother. That's my opinion, at least. And some criticism of their lifestyle should be expected when they famewhore themselves all over the media and their own personal reality-TV show.

Poor "Jinger." I still can't get over that name.

Yikes, what a thread. Interesting reading, though I'm half-afraid of voicing my opinion (and it is only that, MY opinion, not trying to change anyone's mind here). I don't have too much new or exciting to add; just that while these people have every right to keep breeding until Mrs. Duggar suffers uterine prolapse, I can't imagine why anyone would want to (disclaimer: I am happily without offspring). On the one hand, kudos to them for having strong personal convictions and thinking that this is the right thing to do. But I still think it's bizarre, and really very sad for those kids. I was wondering who potty trains them, their older sibling who might be 12 or 13? Or 9? I saw one of their Discovery Health specials about 3 years ago and I remember that as religious as they are, their family doesn't belong to a church; dad also acts as minister to his self-created congregation. Those kids have limited interaction with anyone outside of their immediate family. Their family is way too insulated, and their home seems too much like a compound IMHO. It's almost like the parents think that even an established church outside of their home would be too detrimental to their kids. It just seems strange because eventually those kids will need to enter the outside world and I think they'll have trouble adjusting. Hopefully their parents at least would socialize their kids with other like-minded families so that the children would be able to interact with people they're not related to. Apparently this "Quiverfull" movement has really picked up momentum the past few years: www.quiverfull.com

Oh, and again this is merely my opinion, but a couple who has 18 kids isn't just using more resources for themselves; you have to think about all the kids those kids will have (and wouldn't you guess that they've been taught since they were very young that when they grow up it's their duty to procreate as much as possible?) and then those kids will have lots of kids, and so on and so on. In the scheme of all mankind, their impact is small, but at the same time you can't say that their lifestyle has no impact whatsoever.

On the plus side when the new J-fetus (Jelsey?) is old enough to run around and throw a ball, they'll have enough kids for their own baseball games.

I remember a Monty Python song, something about Christians cherishing every sperm. If they are ultra religious I don't think they would agree with any form of birth control, hence the large amount of children.

I don't like babies, I don't want kids. So 18 is too many to me, and if you have a problem with me saying 18 is too many that's too bad. What a weird argument going on here. People attacking others for their opinions.

Edit: by the way the world record is 69 kids. But it was from the 1700s.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1271793.cms

Lyrics from "Every Sperm is Sacred" (from Monty Python's "Meaning of Life")

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

Let the Pagan spill theirs
O'er mountain, hill, and plain.
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

I grew up in a fairly typical American family, the eldest of 3 kids. My first wife was the 11th of 12. If I could have afforded it and my wife didn't get sick as a dog with each pregnancy, I would have loved to have had as many as she could pop out. I love kids and find that they are an absolute joy.

Big families are different from what many of us have experienced, but IMO that is no excuse for putting them down. My first wife's family was always great fun - it seemed like every spare moment there was some sort of family gathering, and they were always so much fun. As she tells it she was raised more by her elder siblings than by her parents, but nobody was left making appointments. I dare say it's more "different" than "bad" and if you haven't lived through it you cannot really judge. Which I know excludes me too, but I am indeed just saying what so many of you like to say to me ... try to keep an open mind.

You know, BMIC, you make a really good point... Unless you've been in a situation like this - how can I really judge? I personally cannot imagine parenting anymore than what I have. Time, patience and money are all big factors in my decision. But, I guess to each their own and there would be some definate pros to a large family... Not to mention with all of those kids - one of them would be bound to want to take care of you in old age instead of dropping you off at the nearest nursing home!

Hey, they are just doing their part to sustain the Social Security System. They have now allowed for all those now retired and soon to be retired folks who did not have children to help pay into the ponzi scheme that is Social Security..I think this is a better solution than importing other countries' rejects to pay into the system..we can grow our own!

I have 2. That is enough for me. But, hey, who am I to judge? Jon & Kate +8 is on all the time on TLC..and no one screams they should not have had 8..

A public service announcemnt for those who think the Earth already has too many humans. You might be interested in joining the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement. See http://www.vhemt.org/ for a great big steaming pile of horse exrement, which you'll probably just LOVE.

Their motto is "May we live long and die out".

I say go ahead. You all go ahead and die out and leave the rest of us behind to run things without having to listen to your nonsense. hehe!

Weren't the last 6 of Jon & Kate + 8 all in one shot? They were just trying for one and got a 6-pack? That's a little different to me than the woman in the original post that appears to be treating her vagina like a clown car.

x2!!

X infinity! OMG, the "Krusty Klown Kollege" music started playing in my head when I read that...thanks for the laugh!

... ooooo.... he said "vagina" *giggle*

Welcome to the Herald-Mail Elementary School.

Welcome to class, B!

Isn't it so convenient that their house is a "church", so that they are tax exempt . So handy that little scam. My neighbor who's too lazy to work is pulling the same thing. Conned people out of $300,000 one year. Nice little scam they have going. Don't cha think?

Actually for what it is worth, and its not much, folks rag on the John & Kate + 6 gang all the time RE: how many children. They had twins with the same procedure that they followed for the second pregancy. The second pregancy produced 6 babies.

She had been a labor and delivery nurse and was told if they went ahead with the follicle treatment to expect multiple births. It was a personal decision for she and her husband. But they did know the potential outcome. They had a an idea there would be more than 4 if they went therough with that particular cycle vs waiting a month or two. So six was not too far off. Anyway, that is my uiseless trivia for the day.

Notice I avoided sharing an opinion. So I am safe on this one, no bible versuses to my box. Thank you.

Man this all these comments seem very PC. We can't disagree with people's lifestyles on this board?

?

It seems there's a lot of disagreeing going on. BMIC's comment about hoping some of us extinct and my clown car joke don't exactly seem PC. And this is mild compared to past fracases.

Sorry I should have clarified, I was referring to these quotes:

Big families are different from what many of us have experienced, but IMO that is no excuse for putting them down.

Unless you've been in a situation like this - how can I really judge?

But, hey, who am I to judge?


I'll judge if I want to. I think it's weird, and I disagree with it.

Because they're being freakish about it, just like the homos, eh? It's not normal it's not usual, let's bust on it.

Eh, I have to wonder if all these years I haven't been wasting money on contraceptives. I might have been stagnant all this time.


And to add a funny internet thing: your vagina is not a clown car.

Oh god, her guts are going to fall out of her vagina too, btw. No doubt they'll try to stuff them back up in her and try again. Or...

Let's have an out of body organ conception and make news! Eee!














*I'm surprised I can't find a horror movie reference here. Cronenburg?

:beer: :beer:

Have a couple more.



Since when is a MAN and WOMAN raising a family "freakish". Got to do a bit better than that H, dear.

There's nothing sexually perverted or immoral or evil or destructive to human society about being fruitful and multiplying when you can afford it and aren't on welfare. There actually IS something evil, anti-social and destructive to all of humanity behind the pro-death ZPG movement.

So those of us who feel that the criticisms levied against this family are unfair aren't allowed to express THEIR opinions?

I say whatever floats your boat, as long as you don't try to shove it down my throat. I wanted a third child, but it did not happen--instead my private parts decided to go south...

Jon & Kate are to be commended, really--all the doctors wanted them to 'eliminate' at least a few of the babies in the womb to allow the rest to 'survive'. They decided they could not play G-d and allowed all to make it...and they all 6 did! Cute little bugs too! (can you tell I watch the show).

Well, I just want to apologize for MY negativity. I get myself in a tizzy over things and I don't know why, sometimes. You all have the right to your opinion and to make fun of whoever you want!

Someone just said they wanted to hear the other side of the story. I know 18 kids is extreme in today's world. But, when I was growing up, I didn't know very many families that had under 5 kids. My 3 best friends were from families with 16, 9, and 7 kids. So, it was just normal to me. When I went to public school, in 9th grade, I had to work on a project with a girl in my class. Went to her home. She was one of two kids. I was stunned at how big and perfect the house was. So clean. Looked like something from a magazine. But, it also felt so empty to me. It was just different and kinda lonely to me.

I was the oldest daughter, so I took care of my younger sibs. It was just what you do in a family. I loved taking care of my youngest sister and I think I spent more time with her than my mother did. We never had to make appointments with mom, but we really didn't want alot of time with her!! We were too busy playing with the other kids and having fun. It was very different back then.

This family is extreme in many ways. I don't know what this appointment stuff is about. She is probably with the kids all day and night and possibly is making one-on-one time available to each so it's not interrupted?? ot sure. I didn't see anything written about appointments. She does sound very anal. But, I can imagine that the kids are happy and love each other and are well cared for If kids have a good self-esteem, they can face alot of other stuff as they get older.

None of my friends went on to have large families, well that is if you don't consider 3 or 4 kids as large. But, all of these large families produced alot of productive people. One friend is a lawyer in Massachutses. She was also one of the first to marry her partner when it was allowed. One of her brothers is the Ambassador to China and Afghanistan at one time. Another has a disabled child and is a spokeswoman for ARC among lots of other volunteer work. On and on. Just my side of the picture.


I think some people are just gifted to be a good mom to alot of kids. I have no problem with that. This lady seems like one of them. She seems to take her role seriously and is making a good home for these children. Like I said, I would either be a nut case (I'm pretty close as is) or I would be in Sing-Sing if I had that many kids to raise. I guess that's why I feel it must be her thing. She makes it work and has a smile on her face. If woman's lib is truly what it is, then women should have the right to be homemakers and raise their kids responsibly too. There are many women who chose not to have any children. I believe it evens things out.

Re. the "appointments" with the mother--when the family was on the Today show, the mother commented how the kids made appointments to see her, and they even showed the calendar.

I don't think anyone said that those who think the criticisms against the Duggars are unfair were not allowed to express their opinions. But the point of view of those of us who think their lifestyle is extreme is just as valid. Some on this board seem to take on a hostile tone toward those with a differing opinion. Maybe that's why posting has been down lately (but that's another thread).

I don't care if they have 100 kids, as long as the children are well taken care of and loved.

I don't care if their house is a designated as a church and they get a huge tax break, as long as the children are well taken care of and loved.

I don't care if they whore themselves out to pay the bills, as long as the children are well taken care of and loved.

I don't care if Mama Duggar stuffs clown cars INTO her vagina, as long as the children are well taken care of and loved.

I can't imagine why anyone else would care either, as long as the children are well taken care of and loved.

I'm still confused how folks got the idea that they weren't allowed to have opinions in this thread? I read through it again and there is certainly disagreement, but I don't think anybody was told to keep their opinions to themselves? And I still think this is low on the nastiness scale for threads around here. Was the "Civility" thread sparked because of this one?

And jelsey, I don't know if I particularly care much, I was just offereing opinions and a poor taste joke on the thread topic. I mean, that's why we're here, right?

Heh--I thought the "clown car" comment was funny too!

Actually Sman, your car joke was in VERY poor taste, but I loved it!

Keep 'em coming. A quick wit and a smile is always appreciated - by me anyhow!

x2

I loved it!

She has a longgggg way to go!!

I didn't mean to say that people aren't allowed to express opinions. I was more commenting on the political correctness of the posts with the quotes I posted... I think, I don't even remember any more.

I feel I'm allowed to express my opinion and when I do I just wait to see someone call me a troll or a noob or whatever, fun.

Ithlilian<----- noob

Wewt!!!

::clap:: ::clap::

I enjoyed looking at the pictures of these kids. Such cuties!

http://duggarfamily.com/

Actually this is a timely discussion considering the recent release of the film "Demographic Winter" See http://www.demographicwinter.com/index.html



The culture of death and their promotion of population control are leading to a mass extinction ... of humanity. It has been said that legalized abortion has deprived America of an entire generation of potentially productive citizens, and euthanasia is increasingly being promoted, and not just for the elderly and terminally ill.

Once we start cloning people (the intelligent, productive ones) this shouldn't be a problem.