******Forum to discuss and debate local politics and what matters most to the "People"********

Anyone know which Hagerstown City Council members are running for re-election? Responses from RBruchey and KCromer are welcome.

You can probably count on Alesia, Penny, Lew and Kelly running again. Don't know about Martin.

I wonder what each will proclaim they have done during this term that will cause me, the voter to vote for them?

I got it..........they lowered property taxes.

Penny's improved relations with the Homeless.

Kelly's improved relations with the police Department.

Alesia's got the Jonathan St repaving and sprucing up.

Martin has provided a semblance of intelligence to the Council.

The Mayor got a heck of a nice tan.

Lew.... uh.... (anyone know what Lew's done?)

I think that list will be rather small.

The BIG list is what have they done to make me NOT want to vote them back in.

I'm still going with the NO INCUMBENTS FOR THE NEXT SIX YEARS unless their record of service is remarkable.

Ain't seen much remarkable stuff happen lately, unless you count how remarkably out-of-touch some of them seem to be.

But then, I'm thinking on the national level. Local yokels are at least cognizant of the day-to-day issues affecting their voters - or at least it appears to me.

BUSHISM OF THE DAY: "It's very interesting when you think about it, the slaves who left here to go to America, because of their steadfast and their religion and their belief in freedom, helped change America"...spouted off July 8, 2003 in Dakar, Senegal.

What a guy.

So is being aware of day-to-day issues affecting their voters enough to justify re-electing a local official or should citizen's expect more? Remember, Hagerstown and Washington County continue to experience population growth which to me (IMO) requires some foresight and progressive thinking by government in order to move the city forward in a way that benefits taxpayers the most.

If your looking for foresight and progressive thinking that means you'll only be voting for 1 or 2 of the incumbents. Without mentioning names there are 3 current council members I wouldnt vote for with a gun to my head. I am hoping that some bright new blood might decide to get involved in the campaign early enough to make a difference and get their messages out. Are you listening Mr. Campello and Mr. Burrs?? Its never too early to start coming up with a gameplan

No, just being aware isn't enough, but it's a start. I'm talking LOCAL here. I've learned NOT to expect our national leaders to be aware of day-to-day issues, they appear to be infected with the dreaded "Beltway Brain" disease.

"Foresight" is possible at the local level, but "Progressive Thinking" by geriatric, good 'ol boy patriarchs is "Wishful Thinking" IMHO.

Maybe politicians who do less are better than those who do more. Assuming, of course, that they can behave themselves in a normal manner as citizens -- which I have learned we cannot assume. 3 local politicians immediately come to mind as embarassing: McBean, Cromer, and the "I want my name on the school" lady whose name escapes me at the moment...

The sad part is the whole fiasco involving BOE member who made such an incredible stink about her name being on a plaque was just a couple months ago and Snoopy and I along with many others I assume have already blanked when it comes to her name

The 3 I think are total tools are McBean, Metzger, and Nigh. the jury is still out on Mrs. Cromer in my opinion but I must admit its not looking very good unless she can somehow prove or explain her side a little better. Out of the 4 she is the only one I think would be open to new, foreward thinking

lol, samy0, not even with a gun to your head huh? Wow. I hear you samy0 as well as many others who have suggested that I at least consider a run for office and all I can say at this point is that I'm weighing the option. If I do run I need to know within myself that I'm doing it for all the right reasons. I don't view being in any position of leadership from a prestige viewpoint but more from a public service standpoint. The last thing I would want would be to embarass the citizens who elected me, my family, or myself.

I do believe Hagerstown is at the crossroads of opportunity economically and socially and if the people running for office are not progressive thinkers and planners then those opportunities will most likely be missed.

That quote alone puts you ahead of any of the incumbents we have now!

I realize you and tony don't always agree on certain positions but I don't want 5 people who think alike running the city and Tony at the very least has a passion for the city and I think some good ideas like yourself. We need 5 passionate people who will be honored to serve Hagerstown and do what they can to see the city progress into the 21st century.

Right now we seem to have several councilmembers ( You hear me Lew and Penny?) who believe the city owes them a big pat on the ass and an attaboy
for showing up to the Tuesday meetings. The sooner we realize that the status quo will drive Hagerstown into the dirt the better. Give them their gold watches and let them ride off into the sunset already! before the do anymore damage to the city!

Tony does have a passion for the city doesn't he and no he and I don't always see things the same way which as you point out is a good thing. We each have our strengths which I believe could be beneficial to the city.

jburrs: I would seriously consider you for office, with a few reservations.

Tony: We have gone round and round on a few issues and seen eye-to-eye on a few. Tony seems to be very concernned and informed on many issues. But Tony seems to be too much of a hothead to go into politics.

Thanks Snoopy, please enlighten me on the few reservations you have. I'm all for constructive criticism.

JB -- most recently you mentioned how you basically decided you supported someone and, pretty much nothing that person did or could do afterward would shake your support of that person. Undying loyalty might be great for the object of that loyalty but could be detrimental to a community if you were in a government position and you had undying loyalty to, say, a department head who was inept.

Seems I've had a few other positional disagreements with you over the last year or so, but they do not immediately stick out.

But I also think in many ways you're a smart, articulate guy who isn't in it for glory. Big pluses.

Snoopy,

My philosophy has always been that "a chain is only as strong as the chains weakest link." The options are to do nothing to the one weak link and risk the chain breaking, reinforce that weak link making it as strong as the other links in the chain, replace the weak link with a new link, or replace the entire chain with a new chain.

Doing nothing isn't an option and before before I replace an entire chain or buy a new link, my first approach would be to reinforce the weak link by providing extra support. With regards to community and government in reference to the "person" you are referring to, I don't believe that one person has enough "power" to detrimentally affect a community or government alone. That's just not how government is setup to work. In addition, that person hasn't done anything so dastardly to warrant being removed from office by any means other than the normal election process. Given these facts, the logical thing to do is to support that individual as much as possible which is what I've consistently done.

In terms of a department head, if an inept person has managed to reach the level of running a department I'd say there are more things wrong with the system that promoted an inept person to lead a department as opposed to any amount of loyalty I could provide them.

Thanks for the compliments (...a smart, articulate guy...) and you are correct in your belief that I am not a glory chaser, I only want meaningful positive change.

All good points about Mr. Burrs. He'd have my vote. My only disagreement was with Ms. McBean I understand the weakest link in the chain theory but her position should have gone far beyond being the weakest link in the chain.

She had an opportunity as the first african american council person to make her mark for the entire city and show EVERYONE she could be a positive influence and force in local politics. Unfortunately i dont think anyone here can say she has stood out on any specific issue and if anything i think she has hurt the next african american candidate by dividing the city even further instead of trying to unify it.

That obstacle can be overcome but the next person will have to work even harder to prove themselves.

As for Tony. He is somewhat "hotheaded" but he is also passionate, informed, and smart. Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease and thats where i think he would be beneficial. When talks with the county start going south hes the guy I would want in there fighting for the city. Every group needs a peacemaker and an enforcer and with Jonathan and Tony we might have that. Now we just need 3 intelligent people to go along with them.

I think Bob should also get a ton of credit for coming into an unwinable situation and turning things around. The whole he was "unelected" BS and dealing with a council that would rather argue amongst themselves than do the peoples work is a tough road to climb yet he still manages to steer the ship. Personally I would have got up during a council meeting and told them all to "Bite me. I am out of here"

I see my favorite term of endearment is making a comeback.

See...I AM a trendsetter!

Points well taken and noted. My experience with the Mayor has been a little different than your observations in that I believe he as the cities highest elected official the Mayor could be doing much more to promote social cohesiveness, managing the city council in a manner that drives teamwork, and being progressive in planning and pursuing things that promote strong economic development for a small town community that is experiencing growth. The Mayor shows attributes of someone who pacifies as opposed to being a doer who actually boldly pursues issues and makes progress.

Tony and I have kicked this idea around for over a year now and strangely enough the observations you have made samy0 about he and I are basically the same ones I concluded with. With someone like Tony (who tends to be a stickler for the rules) on the council, it is highly unlikely the council would ever have to worry about even given the appearance of doing something similar to the Open Meeting Act issue that exist today with the Mayor and council. I think Tony and I could work well together based on the strengths that each one brings.

One thing I doubt you'll see is Bruchey and I on the same council unless he intends on running for a councilmembers seat.

The problem with "managing the city council" is that on more than one occasion they have referenced that he was NOT an "elected mayor" along with some of the other citizens of Hagerstown. That doesnt promote a "team atmosphere" on any level.

Bobs ideas can only go as far as the council getting behind them can take it. If he has a good idea but council doesn't act what are his options?

Football analogy for you. whats the better team? team 1 has Payton Manning and a bunch of scrubs. team 2 has Jason Campbell but a good supporting cast around him. Which team wins more games?

You have to have some cohesiveness and teamwork no matter who your QB is. I think Bob is working with inferior talent. JMO

A good manager will do all that he/she can do to bring about teamwork and I'm just not seeing that with the Mayor. A politician who would suggest that they are a Republicrat tells me that that politician enjoys playing the middle of the road. Politician's must be openminded and if that means being part republican and part democrat then he should have ran as an Independent instead of attempting to pacify the two major political party's! Not to mention his tendancy to "waver" on issues.

There's a reason why Trump actually won the republican nomination as well as the election. The rest of the council may very well be inferior however, I would add that based on my experiences, Bruchey falls into the same inferior category for not taking advantage of several opportunities he could have and should have taken advantage of. He's more content with his 1 cent property tax cut and feel good politics and quite honestly doesn't have a clue of what it takes to represent a growing community like Hagerstown.

Oooohhh, that’s tough talk about the Mayor, thereJB, sounds like you’re running against him or something. For my dime, specifics always beat generalities. If you say someone is lazy, for example, give the best example as to why you say that.

As for a few prior comments:

“I don't believe that one person has enough "power" to detrimentally affect a community or government alone. That's just not how government is setup to work.”

I disagree. I think we see examples of where one person did damage that may not be easily quantified in Cromer, McBean, and Fischer fiascos. Who knows what company may not have decided to locate here because of the reputation we have due to people like this in government? The wins and losses are not always published in the paper.

Quantifiable financial damage can be done by one politician stealing, taking kickbacks, bribes, or playing favorites, or via their inept decisions.

“In terms of a department head, if an inept person has managed to reach the level of running a department I'd say there are more things wrong with the system that promoted an inept person to lead a department as opposed to any amount of loyalty I could provide them.”

I see inept people reaching levels of department head and above all the time. If you do not see this, perhaps I gave you too much credit. It is not unusual, in government or the private sector. (Anyone disagree?) Sometimes they are in deeper than coaching will help. And without a leader with the willingness and guts to say “maybe I made a wrong choice and I need to replace that person” the damage continues.

I think it's purely speculation regarding companies that may not have decided to locate to Hagerstown because of the "reputation" due to people like Cromer, McBean, and Fischer. What kind of businesses are you referring to any way? Corporations generally make location decisions based on factors other than local politics so I really don't see much validity in such speculation. Additionally, a strong city leader should address such issues and since I have heard from Bruchey on such issues as you raised then I have to believe they don't exist or he chose not to address them.

My comment about the one politician and community/governmental damage, that was relative to who we were discussing and being as though the examples you provide don't apply to her (i.e. politician stealing, taking kickbacks, bribes, etc.) then it's really a mute issue. Sure those things are problems if they arise but based on the way the local government is setup and ran, it would be extremely difficult or nearly impossible for McBean to cause any measurable damage without a lot of assistance and cooperation from other individuals.

As for providing specifics about the Mayor, I'll save those for later.

I see inept people leading department heads and above as well however I made the assumption we were talking about me running for office and coming into a situation where I noticed inept people running a particular department. Didn't realize you were referring to a variety of potential instances. So no I agree with your position and don't believe loyalty to a personal friend takes priority over doing what's best for that department or government agent in general.

From the number of "Editorials" Mr. Burrs has submitted to the paper, I do believe their is an ulterior motive. Most politicians plan well in advance prior to running. Mr. Burrs has, imo, set the wheels in motion for his canidacy, for what, we will have to see.

Are you suggesting "sir" that the number of editorials I have written were motivated by some political ambition? I write because it's liberating. I started writing locally because my wife suggested that I try to make a difference in my own community.

Ok.

Very good. I don't need convincing.

C'mon PhilPhanatic that's it? I'm not convinced. There must be more to your ulterior motive theory isn't it?

HI Everyone

samyo- Thank you for the thought. I am listening but as I have said before I am currently employed by the US Government and precluded from running. That may change, my position may be eliminated on Spetember 30, 2008. After that I will have to see where I am and what the options are. Until then I stand by the fact at this time I cannot run.

snoopy- yes you are right at times I come accross as hotheaded in here. It is funny because most of the people get angry with me in person for not getting pissed off very easy. Believe it or not I uusually try to be the peace maker unless really pushed. When it comes to writing though I do get emotional at times because it is an outlet for the passion I feel about issues and people. One thing you could be certain of if I ran, I would not let my passion or emotions go to the point of embarrassing Hagerstown. We have had enough embarrassments the last few years.

Everyone- I am very passionate aboput issues and people in Hagerstown and Washington County. I grew up here, my family is here and my friends are here. Everyone one of you deserves the best government in the world, yet you haven't been getting that in many cases. It bothers me greatly we have so many things that can be used to our advantage as a community and yet we (our elected officials) squander them on petty bickering and catering to small subsets of people some of whom don't even live in the City or County.

We sit on two major interstates, are within 60 miles of the capital of the free world, we have good colleges in the area and trained people yet our elected officials can do no better than a distibution center or shopping center. We are on the verge of getting a new hospital something that will be good for the community yet a couple of the politicians in city government were fighting the hospital in the last administration. Despite the short reprieve of escalating taxes rates peoples taxes still went up and some can no longer afford to live here. What did our city choose to do about the problem? Fund an innaccurate wage study, negotiate contracts based off of that study, screw over their own retirees and pass everything on an unsuspecting public.

The people of Hagerstown deserve better representation than they have been getting. Don't get me wrong, I like Kelly and Bob, but I wonder if 6 new people wouldn't be better for the City in the long run. They wouldn't have the connection to some of the people running the city and its departments. This council would never get rid of Zimmerman or Smith but given some of the things that have happened maybe they need to be gone. I mean Smith already made it clear where his priorities were when he did his mercenery stint a few years ago, he has lost control of his department so much that he has people giving stories to the HM on elected officials. What has Zimmerman done? Anyone? We know we can't get an accurate accounting of certain things, he gives money away to whoever he wants without the council saying it is ok.

Before anyone takes what I said above as writing off Bob and Kelly I am not. I have flat out told Bob I would like him tun against O'Malley. Then he could actually govern instead of having to kiss certain council butts in order to get something done. He could actually work for the citizens instead of covering asses all day. As for Kelly yes she has a few obstacle right now, but I would like to see her on the county level. Then she could give Kid a hard time every week again. LOL Not to mention probably cause Wivell to stroke out or something.

When the next election comes I may or may not be on the ballot. One thing you can be certain of though and that is I will support and vote for the people who will put the residents of Hagerstown first and who will work for all of the residents of Hagerstown and not just a select few.

Tony

I think there is more to his theory Jonathan. Accusations are made around here without solid proof to back them up. I find it to be quite cowardly. JMO

I Don't need convincing. I have formed my opinion, which last I knew I was allowed to in America. If you feel the need to write, then write.

I would, what theory would you like me to expound upon, madame?

JB,

Sure it is speculation, but to assume such poor behavior on the part of politicians has no ill effect at all is naive. Maybe it might keep someone from moving here and opening a business, maybe it turns off a brilliant young mind to politics -- someone who could have made a big difference in the area. Maybe it makes some voters so jaded they don't bother to vote any more.

Do not assume everything is about McBean. I said "Undying loyalty might be great for the object of that loyalty but could be detrimental to a community if you were in a government position and you had undying loyalty to, say, a department head who was inept." I specifically mentioned a person in a position totally unrelated to McBean, but you keep going back to her. I also said "Quantifiable financial damage can be done by one politician stealing, taking kickbacks, bribes, or playing favorites, or via their inept decisions." I in no way mentioned or alluded to McBean, and we all know those things do not apply to her situation.

Just my opinion -- be less of a "politician" and you may do better in politics.

BTW...a friendly note. The correct term is "moot point" not "mute point".

So is this thread really about "TriState HardBall" or is this a Platform for Mr. Burrs and Tony to run for office??? BTW, Mr. Burrs do you live in the city limits??

Very insightful Hagop

hagopinion

If I were planning to run I would come out and say so. In all honesty I won't say no but 99% of the job aplications I am putting in are with the Federal Government. Any of those jobs would exclude me. The other 1% of jobs I have put in for are out of state which would also preclude me. Yes, if nothing came about and my job is eliminated then I "might" run. In other words I wouldn't put money on it or hold my breath because it most likely won't happen. So in answer to your question this forum is not about me "running" for anything. I answered the questions of two people who asked them and then expounded slightly.

Tony

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Yes, I live inside Hagerstown city limits.

Now that's "Hardball"

For the record on something here. Jonathan and I have had our differences in the past, we disagree on somethings and agree on others. In the future I am sure we will disagree on other things and probably have some really nice arguements. However, if he runs he will have my support and my vote, because he does care about this community and not just one part of it. We need people to step and be responsible and community minded.

Tony

In my opinion, Mr. Burrs is to much of an ethno-centrist, and Mr. Campello is too much of a hot head lacking the maturity (at this point) to handle a political office; plus, I think he's still suffering from sour grapes from the last election. Although I do believe Mr. Campello's heart is in the right place and believe he really wants to do what is right.

Nothing personal, just my opinion.

Just checking, did not want another McBean fiasco. Rumors were floating around how she lived in Smithsburg and used her fathers address to get into office. Don't know where that info came from or why. But I want to make sure everything is legit before I give 100% of my support to someone.

Now back to the regularly scheduled J and Tony show.

And which part of my ethnicity are you referring too? The Anglo (English, Irish, French), African, or Native American?

Alright. Now that we have the council race and city politics all figured out how about frying the bigger fish?

I haven't heard a peep from Kid in weeks. Not sure if thats a good or bad thing. Anyone have any concerns with the county commissioners lately? Like the new shopping area being discussed.

In the broader scope of things they affect EVERYONE here. City and county residents

Area 51,

I have to be honest, I needed to look up the definition for ethnocentrism. Interesting opinion you have there and considering another post of yours in a different forum I responded to, it might serve you well to look up the definition for terms like ethnocentric and racism which are almost synonymous:

Ethnocentric -
• characterized by or based on the attitude that one's own group is superior
• the belief in the inherent superiority of one's own ethnic group or culture.
• a tendency to view alien groups or cultures from the perspective of one's own

Racism -
• a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others

I haven't heard fromn Kid in a while either. Honestly I don't pay a lot of attention to the CC since Kid got elected. I have a high degree of confidence in him and a fair degree of confidence in the others so unless some crap hits the fan to cause alarm I don't worry about them to much.

Johnathan, I appreciate your passion for people, families and communities. If elected as a Public Official, what issues do you consider to be a priority?